Sneezing Rabbit

[Sayuri]

For a number of weeks now Louis has had the sneezes. He tends to get them when he is bouncing around or when he's excited.

I took him to the vets and she had a look up his nose, much to his disgust as he HATES anyone touching his nose, and she said that it did look as though it had an infection.

She said that other than that he was in perfect health and so she gave him a jab of something or other and some antibiotics to take home. I had to go away for 4 days and left him in the capable hands of a friend of mine and she gave him his meds and they have run out.

I thought that he should be normal now but tonight he sneezed...just the one though. My vet said she has never come across a sneezing rabbit before; she isnt very rabbit savvy, none of the vets around here are but at least Erica is eager to learn more about them and she loves Louis as much as we do.

He has to go back to her next week to see how he is and to get his next bunny vaccination.

Has anyone had any experience with a sneezing bunny or does anyone know a potential cause of Louis problem?

 

[AngelnSnuffy]

Hey Alice, thanks for posting!

I would say first off, if you can find a rabbit-savvy vet now, definitely to your benefit and theirs.

Sneezing can be caused by one: allergies to hay, or two: pasturella (snuffles), a bacterial infection that needs treated with strong antibiotics. Unfortunately, these days from what I've heard, several antibiotics are not effective enough against these smart bacteria:shock:. Therefore, a stronger agent should be used, but without knowing what Louis was prescribed and injected with, it's hard to know what to do next. Any chance you still have the bottle, and can phone the vet and find out the injectible he got (if it's not on your receipt copy)? That would help.

Let us know and please, keep us posted.

Any thoughts, Randy?

 

[ra7751]

Hi,

Couple of things here...and I agree with the post from AngelnSnuffy. Could be allergies, could be a bacterial infection.... and itcould be a dental issue. Is there any discharge at all when he sneezes...either from the eyes or the nose? I am very concerned about an antibiotic that only lasts 4 days. That is not good. While we do use the 4 (or sometimes 5) day rule with wild rabbits....I generally use a much longer dosing of antibiotics. Most vets still prescribe either sulfanomides (Sulfatrim, SMZ, Bactrim, Septra, etc) or enrofloxacins (Baytril) or in some cases, Ciprofloxacins basically because they have always been used and are considered "safe" for rabbits. Due to mutating bacteria, those drugs are becoming less effective. This might be a little difficult to do, but I would get a nasal culture to see exactly what pathogen is in there. That way, the lab can establish sensitivity and an appropriate antibiotic be used....assuming that we do have a bacterial infection. Traditionally, pasteurella is the most likely bacteria in a rabbit's infection...but we are seeing more instances of pseudomonas and staph as well as some we have not seen before...I have one with a very stubborn strain of streptococcus. By establishing the offending bacteria and treating it properly, it will take care of your rabbit's health issue and prevent the possibility of a future resistant bacteria. The results of a culture will also be the steering mechanism to rectify this concern. If we have a confirmed bacterial infection, treat it. If not, more diagnostics since a bacterial infection will have been eliminated. And again, I agree with AngelnSuffy...if you can find out exactly what the injection was and the drug sent home, we might be able to advise your vet on a better course of action especially if she is willing to learn.

Randy

 

[AngelnSnuffy]

Thanks Randy!

And also, could you get the dosage given injectibly, and dosage of the antibiotic?

 

[Michaela]

Hi :wave:, nice to see you posting , you haven't been around much lately.

Randy and Crystal have given you great advice already, so I'll just add my positive thoughts for Louis and hope he makes a quick recovery. :hug:

Good luck with finding a vet who knows what they are talking about too - I'm in a similar situation. :?

 

[Sayuri]

Awww Michela I didnt even think that anyone would notice that I was gone -- You made my day LOL **HUGS**

Louis has been given 0.8ml of Baytrill to take and he had a 10ml bottle, which he finished. I went back to my vets today, although Louis didnt come, and got him more Baytrill....he HATES taking it...I told her what had been said here, well as much as I could remember and she insisted on keeping him on the Baytrill for another 10ml at the same amount a day. She did say something about a tear duct flush :shock: that she thinks he might need if he doesnt get better.

When she looked at him last time she said that his teeth were fine, there is no discharge anywhere and he looks in every other respect a very healthy boy

 

[ra7751]

Hi,

Couple of thoughts on your response. Baytril is quite nasty tasting. If you use the injectable version, it can be flavored (and the tablets are usually liver flavored and there is nothing to improve that). Injecting Baytril sub-q seems to work better than giving orally most likely due to the pH in the gut. And in today's world, Baytril is losing favor with most rabbit savvy vets. It has been so overused and abused that many bacteria have become resistant. I rarely use Baytril in rabbits..wild or domestic due to this resistant bacteria. Without a proper culture, treatment is just guesswork. But if I were to place a bet on this, I would bet on pasteurella. Ask your vet to look into using Zithromax (Azithromycin). This drug is much more effective at controllingpasteurella than Baytril. Now this is all assuming that it is a bacterial infection...without that culture....there is no comfirmation, only guesses. If the condition doesn't clear up....just looking at the teeth is not sufficient. The problem would most likely be a root problem which would require radiology to see. Dental problems often present themselves as a possible upper respiratory issue or even an ocular (eye) infection. Buns with flat faces...particularly Holland Lops and Netherland Dwarfs....seem to be more prone to this but we have seen it in all breeds.

As far as allergies...some vets have used antihistimines...and I have used steroids from time to time. There is significantrisk involved in these types of drugs and I would generally not consider them unless absolutely necessary. I would really like to see a nasal culture here to prove or disprove an infection.

Randy

 

[Sayuri]

Thanks Randy!!!

Gesh and there was me thinking that Grace was the one who was going to be running up huge vet bills, Louis is only 5 months old and he has been rather pricey so far LOL

The vet said to mix the baytrill with some fresh juice so I put it with some fresh orange and he still wasnt having it...He freaks out the second the siringe gets anywhere near his mouth and being a small rabbit its hard to sit on him to stop him wriggling about...today it took nearly 15 minutes to give him his medcine and there was loads around his mouth when he was done.

 

[AngelnSnuffy]

Eck. What position do you have him in when you try to syringe the meds? One to try, if you haven't already, is have him on the floor, between your knees. Then hold him with one hand and syringe with the other, and insert it behind the front teeth, so on the side. It's not the easiest thing to do:?. Just try to feel around a bit with the syringe, you'll find that opening, eventually. I hope this helps a bit.

You can also try mixing the med with some applejuice or even Pedialyte.

 

[ra7751]

Hi Bambi,

I don't know about using orange mixed with Baytril. With antibiotics....there might be some clashing with the pH....it has a hard enough time in the gut without the extra acidity. Check with a pharmacist.... a chemist if I remember my UK terms correctly (and I really like that term too) to see if they can provide you with an inert flavoring that will help with the taste without altering the effectiveness of the drug. I use products from a company called FlavorX that is available here in the US.I will be very surprised if you get resolution to this problem using Baytril....as I have mentioned previously, it's not exactly on my front line drugs any longer. But I have seen it work effectively in some animals that have never been treated with it before so it might work. But if not, talk to you doctor about the zithromax.

Randy

 

[Ivory]

As of rabbit medicine textbooks published in November 2006, Baytril remains one of the most effective antitbiotics against Pastuerella multocida to date when prepared in vitro...

The problem isn't in the medicine itself, the problem is giving the medicine. Orally isn't as effective because it takes a longer amount of time for the body to build up antibodies in the bloodstream. Injectable is better than oral administration.

The only time I've ever seen any kind of true resistance to the actual medicine, and not to the method of administration, is in some ear infections.

 

[Sayuri]

Thanks for the responses.

I didnt mix the baytrill with fresh orange today as I agree about the acidity thing and it did cross my mind at the time. Can I use "squash" - you know the stuff you add water to - if not I will see if I can get some pure apple juice tomorrow

Chrys that is how I give him his meds at the moment but...

Does anyone have any other tips for giving Louis his meds because tonight he got SO stressed I was really worried about him. I had to put him back in his cage to calm down because his breathing was so fast and for the first time I could really hear the problem he is having, apart from the sneezing of course. He wouldnt even eat his fresh mint he was so stressed and Louis LOVES his food

 

[AngelnSnuffy]

Bambi Sunshine wrote:

Chrys that is how I give him his meds at the moment but...

Does anyone have any other tips for giving Louis his meds because tonight he got SO stressed I was really worried about him. I had to put him back in his cage to calm down because his breathing was so fast and for the first time I could really hear the problem he is having, apart from the sneezing of course. He wouldnt even eat his fresh mint he was so stressed and Louis LOVES his food

Unfortunately, not sure. When my BunBun was sick with Heart Failure, I tried wrapping him in a towel, then noticed he liked to attack the towel, so we let him do it in between trying to give his meds. He hated to be held or restrained. By the time we got done giving the meds, the poor thing was breathing so hard, it was not good. I didn't know what else to do, not give them to him? I knew I would lose him anyway at some point, but I did my best to give them to him.

In the beginning, I would hide his meds in some greens, a greens burrito, he finally cought on to that and ate around the med.

Let me see if other than a bunny burrito (wrapped in a towel), if there is another method I am forgetting...

 

[Leaf]

ra7751 wrote:

Baytril is quite nasty tasting. If you use the injectable version, it can be flavored (and the tablets are usually liver flavored and there is nothing to improve that).

Injecting Baytril sub-q seems to work better than giving orally most likely due to the pH in the gut.

Flavored injections?

 

[Ivory]

Leaf wrote:

ra7751 wrote:

Baytril is quite nasty tasting. If you use the injectable version, it can be flavored (and the tablets are usually liver flavored and there is nothing to improve that).

Injecting Baytril sub-q seems to work better than giving orally most likely due to the pH in the gut.

Flavored injections?

LOL! What he means is, the injectable version is liquid. You can give the injectable version orally, so long as you dose it right, and you can add flavoring to it when giving it orally.

 

[Maureen Las]

In my city their is a small pharmacist who "compounds" medication. He is used by all the vets here to flavor medications so it is appealing to animals. I use him now for all the rabbits. If he flavors with cherry or banana the solution can degrade quickly, must be refrigerated and used in several weeks.

If he uses syrups the solution doesn't need refrigeration and you can get a larger batch. I am using almond syrup for most of the rabbits. I asked him (Pharmacist ) to try to get the strongest strength in the smallest amount of solution so that I can give something like .25 ml rather .5 ml. You might want to look in the phone book where you live or even ask the vets if they use someone.
I had to bring this pharmacist up to a vet who routinely uses him for cat and dog meds but didn't think of using it for the rabbits.

Once again the rabbit gets the back seat.
Anyway this could help significantly in getting a nasty tasting med palatable for a bun.

 

[naturestee]

My vet compounds meds himself, his flavor of choice for rabbits is apple although the emergency vet gave us banana flavored stuff. Fey said yuck!

Although she did eat it when I mixed it in a little canned pumpkin.

I know that's hard for you to find, so maybe mix it in a little canned baby food? No onions in it, please. Or unsweetened apple sauce. Make sure he actually likes the baby food before you try it. My buns lick canned pumpkin off a spoon or plate or bowl or floor...