*sigh* Ruby..

[Bunnys_rule63]

Well, as some of you may remember Ruby was diagnosed with a 'lung infection ' (which my vet confirmed later was actually a URI) a few weeks ago. She was on a 14 day treatment of marbocyl antibiotic, which after she finished the vet recommended leaving her without treatment to see if she improved. Initially she did, although she was still sneezing her sneezing fits were much better and happenedless often, however spending time with her today I've noticed she has gotten worse again.She sneezesmore often and her sneezing fits areworse (although not as bad as they were to begin with) and sometimes her breathing seems a little fast.:?

Back to the vets we go... :sigh:

Vibes/prayers/thoughts for my girl please, she doesn't deserve this just after her birthday!:rollseyes

 

[AngelnSnuffy]

Oh no, poor Rubes. Sounds like more meds will be in order for her, I hope that is all. My thoughts and prayers are with you and Ruby. I agree, she doesn't deserve this right after her birthday.

 

[ra7751]

Hi,

I think an excellent belated birthday present would be a round of Zithromax. The enrofloxacins just don't do the job anymore. The entire family of those type drugs along with the sulfanomides just have lost their punch due to the misuse and overuse thru the years of being considered "safe". They were prescribed and administered when their use was not appropriate and now we have some resistant bacteria. I have been using Zithromax in treating URIs and in conjunction with penicillin to treat abscesses and have had perfect success so far. Ask your doctor about using it.

Randy

 

[Phinnsmommy]

Oh geez. Not again.

Good luck! :hug:

 

[Bunnys_rule63]

Thanks guys.

Randy - I've been doing a bit of research on Zithromax after what you said, and although I am keen on using it if it will make Ruby better I have heard that it is ahigh risk drugfor causing gut dysbiosis.:? Is this something you have ever experienced when treating your buns with it? Or do you think it is worth the risk?

I'll definitely ask my vet aboutthe drugand see what he thinks.

 

[Bunnys_rule63]

I've just got back from the vets, it's not good news.It turns out Ruby has a Lower Respiratory infection which the vet suspects to be pasturella. He spent ages explaining to me the state of her lungs and how basically she can never recover from this, she will always have flare-ups of infections due to the abscesses in her lungs and will have to be treated for them for the rest of her life. He checked over Millie and said she is ok, but I need to keep an eye on her to make sure she doesn't become ill as well.

I asked about changing the medication but he recommended staying with Marbocyl as he has found it affective against respiratory infections.

I just can't believe it. Mypoor Ruby.:bigtears:

 

[Bunnys_rule63]

I was just wondering, can liquid antibiotics be given disguised in food somehow, and if so, does anyone have any suggestions for how to do it?

I've just been thinking about the long term implications of this, Ruby is going to be on meds a lot of the time but she hates it and becomes very distant from me because of it. I have just won her trust back and I don't want to lose it again, or cause her any unnecessary stress.:?Finding a non-stressful away of administering her meds would be the best solution all round.

 

[Haley]

Its very odd to me to hear that he's putting her back on the same meds that didnt work last time. If they didnt kill it last time they wont this time. You need something stronger.

Also, how did he diagnose the LRI? Did he do xrays? I dont know how he could knoe something like that without xrays. Even then, respiratory infections are serious in rabbits and she should be on something stronger, or try something like nebulizing her to get the meds directly to her lungs.

Are there any other vets who could give you a second opinion? I think Id be looking around.

As for disguising the meds, you can try lots of things. Sometimes I use canned pumpkin, juice or baby food. Are the meds flavored at all? Since other foods and things can cause drug interactions the absolute best method is to call around to local vets or chemists and see if anyone can compound the liquid for you to make it taste like something yummy.

I hope Ruby's better soon. ray:

 

[Bunnys_rule63]

I know, I thought it was very strange too.:?I asked him if she would be better on a stronger drug but he said it wasn't the strength of the drug that would make the difference, it's about understanding how rabbits fight infections because it is so different to how cats and dogs do it, so a strongerantibiotic won't work.:?

No, she didn't have an x-ray,the vetsaid that when listening to herchest he couldn't hear much from the bottom of her lungs, indicating that the infection was down there. I had so many questions lined up for him, including if she should have a culture, but as soon as I heard about how she couldn't get better from this I was so shocked they all flew out my head.:shock:I was so mad at myself when I got home.:XHowever; I don't want to cause Ruby any more stress by marching her back and asking for a culture, so I thinkI'll justwait until she next goes in and ask for one. This is so frustrating - I wish vets were more explanatory!:X


Thanks for the advice about disguising the meds, I think I'll try and ask the vets if they can improve the taste somehow.onder:

 

[ra7751]

Hi,

Only have a brief moment....rescues are lining up. I did want to quickly respond and will send more later.

We have never had any GI problems when using Zithromax. We have been using it for years. It is very effective against most strains of pasteurella.

Like Haley, I am quesitoning the diagnosis and treatment. If it is a lower respiratory...something like pneumonia...more should be done to remove the fluid and fight the infection. We have used Lasix in those situations from time to time. I also question the Marbocyl. It does not appear to have been effective up to this point. And from what I have seen and read on that particular drug...it appears to be nothing much more than a repackaged version of Baytril. And I am not a fan of Baytril due to the resistance to it from many strains of bacteria.

And as far as disguising meds...disguise them in a syringe and inject them. That is the only way I use Baytril in small mammals now. Some drugs are safe only when injected and we have seen several that are much more effective when injected.

A culture is the only way to determine exactly what pathogen is present and precisely what to treat it with. But it is sometimes very difficult to get a good swab with a LRI. And I think maybe there has been some communication issue here. True, pasteurella cannot be eradicated....it is always present in nearly all warm blooded mammals...including humans. In most situations, the immune system should keep this dormant. Key here is to get the immune system back up and put the "genie back into the bottle". We do have buns with chronic pasteurella infections. We do not treat all the time but do respond when there is a flare up. Again, the key in controlling this issue is to keep the immune system going.

Randy

 

[JadeIcing]

Ringo has pasteruella and I personaly believe the Zithromax has saved his life. Yes she needs stronger.

I agree with Randy a hundred percent.

Ringo at one point was on meds EVERY day. Now just when it flares up.

 

[Bunnys_rule63]

Thank you Randy and Alicia for your advice.

I have been doing a lot of research since I got back from the vets, and a lot of thinking. I have decided (with the help of Jane - Rex rabbit) to keep Ruby on the Marbocyl for 7-10 days. The marbocyl did improve Ruby's condition last time she was on it, so it should do the same this time, although after about a week I am going to take her back to the vets and see if her condition has improved.

If it has improvedI will keep her onthe marbocyluntil this flare-up is gone, however if it isn't I am going to discuss changing Ruby's medication with the vet. Potential drugs I am thinking about are Zithromax, tetracycline injections or Penicillin Injections, with Cholestyramine to mop up all the bad gut bacteria that rabbits produce when on those drugs.

Randy - would you recommend giving Zithromax via injection or syringe?

Thanks so much again guys, I really appreciate all this help.:hug2:

 

[LuvaBun]

Oh Jess, I am so sorry that Ruby has had such a setback. How is she today? Hugs and good thoughts sent your way :hug:

Jan

 

[Bunnys_rule63]

Thanks Jan.:hug: She is doing ok thanks, still sneezing but she is eating like a horse, playing and actingnormally, and is taking her meds ok. I think she actually getting used to taking them, she doesn't go ina grump with me after I put her back down.

I'm feeling a little more confident about this whole thing now I've got a plan, although I've got to say I'd be abit nervous if it came to injecting Ruby themeds as I'm needle-phobic.:shock:But I'll get over it for my girl.

Continued thoughts and prayers for Ruby please.ray:

 

[Bunnys_rule63]

Double post!

 

[JadeIcing]

 

[HoneyPot]

We have all our fingers, toes and paws here crossed that Ruby feels better. There are no other rabbit-savvy vets in your area that you could maybe just do a second opinion with? Even if this vet is more thorough with running the tests and things...

Keep up with the updates! I'm always checking on your girls.

:hug:

Nadia
Misty
Charlie
& Oliver

 

[ra7751]

Hi

As far as administering the Zithromax...I have been doing it orally. I either mix the powder in a suspension agent...water, lactated ringers....and give it by mouth. With some of the buns, I mixthe powderinto a small piece of banana. They so rarely get banana that they gobble it down not knowing the meds are in there. An injectable version of Zithromax has just been approved if I remember correctly but I haven't used it.

I see you mentioned tetracycline...I am not a big fan of that drug either...it's so "yesterday" and pretty much ineffective. In using the Zithromax or the Pen G, I have never had to use anything like Cholestyramine. If you do use that drug, proper hydration is a must. I prefer to use Flagyl which targets a specific bacteria....clostridium....that can grow in some GI situations. But again, I have never had any gut issues with Zith or Pen G (remember that penicillin is safe only as an injectable for those of you that have never used it).

Randy

 

[Bunnys_rule63]

Thanks Nadia and Randy.

Nadia - I have been looking around for different vets but I'm not sure what any of them are like.:?I might wait until Ruby gets the next check in at my vets, see what they say, and if they aren't open to the idea of new meds I'll try a different vets.

Randy, thanks for that information! I'm trying to gather as much infoas possible so that when I talk it over with my vets I'm wellarmed - so to speak.

Ruby is doing well, and even did binkies this morning when I let her out which she hasn't done in a while!Also I haven't seen her sneezing white snot which is a good sign.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

That poor baby! I hope all goes well and you find the culprit of her illness and get her all better.