Shop recommends bad food :(

[maddogdodge]

So sad today I went into my local feed store to buy some dog food and ask what brands of rabbit food they stock. I don't even have rabbits yet (Soon hopefully ) but have done heaps of research into feeding. The lady reeled off a heap of different brands but kept coming back to one she called "Petes Tropical Vine Mix". She was raving about it saying it's their best seller and most people feed only that to their rabbits, nothing else :/

I went home and googled it... doesn't look very good to me, surely this can't be a good diet for a rabbit! Everything I've read says to avoid foods with fruit, seeds and nuts!

Makes me so sad when shops recommend foods that really aren't good for animals I see the same thing all the time with dogs, cats and ferrets!

 

[Azerane]

You were right to trust what you'd learned. It's a very poor quality food and muesli type mixes should be avoided at all costs. They can lead to weight gain, dental disease and other health issues. They also encourage selective feeding as well which just makes things worse. Unfortunately it's all too common for pet stores to recommend poor quality or ill suited products, especially I find for small animals. Unfortunately, even the Peters plain pellets aren't really suitable. Also, just because something is a best seller, doesn't mean that it's any good.

If you're looking for a brand of pellet, I'd go with Vetafarm (available at most pet stores), Oxbow (available at vet clinics) or Burgess Excel (only available online). All are grass hay based, which is what you want. Burgess is the most expensive, Vetafarm generally the cheapest. I have noticed on the Peters website that they now do a Timothy hay based pellet called Fibre First, but I haven't been able to find any detailed ingredients or nutritional information about it yet. If you're shopping online for pellets, My Pet Warehouse have free shipping on orders over $50. Depending on how soon you're looking at getting a rabbit, the Guinea Pigs Australia shop currently has a mega sale on Burgess Excel products.

For reference on what to look for in a food (nutritional analysis etc) check out this web page: http://www.therabbithouse.com/diet/rabbit-food-comparison.asp
It also has a comparison chart of different UK food brands, which includes Burgess and Oxbow. I did a lot of research last year and made my own version of the chart with Australian brands.

Also, I'm guessing you're the same maddogdodge from the dog forum, if so, hi

 

[RavenousDragon]

I've never seen a pet store recommend a good diet for exotic animals. They don't even carry the right foods for most birds. But that's why research is key! Good job researching this food BEFORE getting it.

 

[maddogdodge]

Thanks for the link, much appreciated

Yes I was leaning towards vetafarm or burgess excel, this particular place I went to today didn't stock either of them. Will probably end up getting it from My Pet Warehouse, I'm constantly buying ferret food from there anyway, love their free shipping

And yes, I am the MDD from the dog forum

In the last year I've done heaps of reading into pet nutrition and ended up overhauling the diets of all my pets (dogs, cats and ferrets). I value a good quality balanced diet for animals a lot so am very picky about what I feed them, no way I'd buy a pet food without analysing it closely

It really is amazing how much a decent diet can improve an animals health!

 

[Aki]

Those are really bad indeed. I've always bought my rabbits' pellets and hay from the Internet as most petshops don't have anything you can really give to a rabbit (and employees just tell you what they were told to tell you from the pamphlets they have to learn by heart - they generally don't know the first thing about the animals they are selling). Just having a rabbit AND another animal (guinea pig or worse hamster) on the packaging is a bad sign.
I buy a european brand of pellets so I can't recommend it to you, but I think Sherwood is pretty good too, from what I've seen.
Anyway, pellets should be given very sparingly as rabbits should eat mainly hay and vegetables (in that order). If you want to know more about the proper diet for rabbits and if you haven't read it already, you should go to the House Rabbit society website. I used the list of recommended vegetables a lot during my first year as a rabbit owner ^^ :
http://rabbit.org/category/care/diet/

 

[maddogdodge]

Anyway, pellets should be given very sparingly as rabbits should eat mainly hay and vegetables (in that order). If you want to know more about the proper diet for rabbits and if you haven't read it already, you should go to the House Rabbit society website. I used the list of recommended vegetables a lot during my first year as a rabbit owner ^^ :
http://rabbit.org/category/care/diet/

Thanks for the link, yeah I've checked out similar websites and done all the research Wanted to make sure I can care for a bunny properly before I get one! I plan to grow my own veggies for them as I live on a farm with a large veggie patch. We also grow and cut our own hay every year so I'll have hay in abundance

 

[Blue eyes]

Unfortunately, too many assume that the food that looks most "gourmet" must be the best and the "plain stuff" must be the worst. I remember striking up a conversation with a fellow customer at a pet store concerning the same for guinea pig food. I then pointed out that the colorful gourmet stuff is way cheaper than the plain -- that was what convinced her that perhaps the plain is healthier. :foreheadsmack:

 

[maddogdodge]

Unfortunately, too many assume that the food that looks most "gourmet" must be the best and the "plain stuff" must be the worst. I remember striking up a conversation with a fellow customer at a pet store concerning the same for guinea pig food. I then pointed out that the colorful gourmet stuff is way cheaper than the plain -- that was what convinced her that perhaps the plain is healthier. :foreheadsmack:

I know what you mean! I see the same thing with dog and cat food all the time, the cheap stuff with colourful dyes in it is often thought to be good for them when in reality it's just fillers. What makes me most mad about dog and cat food is that vets promote 'Hills' food as a premium high quality food for pets but if you just look at the ingredients you see it's no better than the cheap stuff. It's just full of fillers and hardly any meat

 

[Watermelons]

I know what you mean! I see the same thing with dog and cat food all the time, the cheap stuff with colourful dyes in it is often thought to be good for them when in reality it's just fillers. What makes me most mad about dog and cat food is that vets promote 'Hills' food as a premium high quality food for pets but if you just look at the ingredients you see it's no better than the cheap stuff. It's just full of fillers and hardly any meat

That's because they get free stuff for selling the vet food I got so many free lunches, and back packs, and scrubs, and banquet dinners, and water bottles, pet beds, bags, oh the list goes on... all from those companies so we would sell their food better or sell their drugs better at the vets. Education seminars about MediCal or Hills foods were always with food, usually subway for us since it was close by . A lot of those companies are also the ones that help fund the vet courses and tech courses (here anyway). I can think of my mothers mindset on pet food before she did the veterinary assistant course, and then after. Suddenly she keeps bringing home vet foods. (Shhh brainwash)

Keep in mind it goes both ways. People see commercials so they want that! Well obviously its good if its on TV right? Or "Its just a dog/rabbit who cares". I spent more then 10 years working pet stores and pet industry and there were always more people who weren't willing to spend more on their pets food (even if it would cost them less because they would feed less) because they didn't care. Their last pet ate this and lived till it was ______ so they will do the same with this one. Pet stores have to sell the crap because the majority of their clients want it. Its supply and demand. If they didn't carry kibbles and bits then the customer who only wants that food wont shop there and wont buy those treats or toys or other supplies they walk past.

So its always up to you, the consumer, to do your research. Thank you for being one of those people Mad

 

[edwinf8936]

I bet that shop has a lot of bad customer experience. The shop is after profits, these are high profit items. I would not set foot in that place again.

 

[RavenousDragon]

To be fair- yes vets get free stuff from Hills and Royal Canin. But often the vets support those two brands (in the US) because they are two of the only diets that are actually FED to animals before reaching your own. Many veterinarians are science minded, and they like to see numbers. So feeding animals these diets in a controlled environment (yes, this is animal testing- no, these animals are not euthanized at the end of the trials) gives the veterinarians peace of mind.

 

[Watermelons]

To be fair- yes vets get free stuff from Hills and Royal Canin. But often the vets support those two brands (in the US) because they are two of the only diets that are actually FED to animals before reaching your own. Many veterinarians are science minded, and they like to see numbers. So feeding animals these diets in a controlled environment (yes, this is animal testing- no, these animals are not euthanized at the end of the trials) gives the veterinarians peace of mind.

Both brands go through minimal testing compared to the top brands not sold at vet offices.
So no definitely not a reason vets support them lol. Almost all foods are tested in that way as well, so that is nothing special, they are not the only ones.

Do you have anything to add about the actual topic of this post? Or just what I wrote?

 

[maddogdodge]

That's because they get free stuff for selling the vet food I got so many free lunches, and back packs, and scrubs, and banquet dinners, and water bottles, pet beds, bags, oh the list goes on... all from those companies so we would sell their food better or sell their drugs better at the vets. Education seminars about MediCal or Hills foods were always with food, usually subway for us since it was close by . A lot of those companies are also the ones that help fund the vet courses and tech courses (here anyway). I can think of my mothers mindset on pet food before she did the veterinary assistant course, and then after. Suddenly she keeps bringing home vet foods. (Shhh brainwash)

Keep in mind it goes both ways. People see commercials so they want that! Well obviously its good if its on TV right? Or "Its just a dog/rabbit who cares". I spent more then 10 years working pet stores and pet industry and there were always more people who weren't willing to spend more on their pets food (even if it would cost them less because they would feed less) because they didn't care. Their last pet ate this and lived till it was ______ so they will do the same with this one. Pet stores have to sell the crap because the majority of their clients want it. Its supply and demand. If they didn't carry kibbles and bits then the customer who only wants that food wont shop there and wont buy those treats or toys or other supplies they walk past.

So its always up to you, the consumer, to do your research. Thank you for being one of those people Mad

Too true! I work at a vet as a dog groomer so I'm not directly involved with all the veterinary stuff but I still see how the food companies effect things!

And you're right about pet shops stocking for the supply and demand situation. A lot of shops probably wouldn't survive if they didn't have those constant sales. You're right that there are a lot of people who either don't want to or literally can't afford to spend lots of money on pet food. It's a balance that can be hard to find. I don't like telling people they shouldn't have pets if they can't afford the highest quality food but I also want to encourage them to provide the absolute best diet and care that they can.

 

[Azerane]

Having mentioned those new Peter's pellets yesterday, I happened to stop in a local pet store today and noticed they had them in. I took photos of the bag so I could record ingredients and nutritional information. They actually seem to be of ok quality although seemed pretty pricey at about $17 for 1kg (Pet Stock though) when it's a brand that sells so many cheap foods. It still has a reasonable seed component but at least hay is the first ingredient.

Peters Fibre Right: Timothy hay, pea fibre, maize, sunflower seed meal, maize starch, vitamins and minerals (comprising Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Iron sulphate, Copper sulphate, Zinc oxide, Manganese-oxide, Calcium iodate, Sodium selenite), Cranberry, Rosehips, Calcium carbonate, Sunflower oil, Lysine, Dicalcium phosphate, Salt, Preservative, Yucca Extract, Antioxidants.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min) 12.5%
Crude Fat (min) 2.0%
Crude Fibre (min) 23.5%
Crude Fibre (max) 26%
Salt (NaCl) (max added) 1.1%
Calcium (min) 0.5%
Calcium (max) 0.75%
Phosphorus (min) 0.4%
Vitamin A, IU/kg 19000
Vitamin D, IU/kg 1900
Vitamin E, IU/kg 190
Copper, mn/kg 19 (I think kinda hard to read this one).