Sherry and Lisa abscesses

[Pipp]

Sherry has moved upstairs with my neighbour, but she came down to visit and was harassing the foster bunnies through the bars when lo and behold one of the panels came loose and Lisa got out and got into a fight with Sherry. They were hanging on to each other’s faces.

I initially thought Lisa got the worst of it, but in spite of a penicillin injection, Sherry now has an abscessed upper lip (inside) and it appears to be going into her nasal cavity. :tears2: The abscessed part on her lip seems pretty capsulized and should be surgically removed, I just hope we can get rid of the 'tentacle'.

Lisa has a hole in her chin and gum I think right into the bone -- one tooth went into her mouth through her chin, the other tore the skin right away from the gum under her bottom lip. The vet initially thought she had a pre-existing abscess in her jaw and the fight was just a lucky coincidence -- she had so much pus around her gum and teeth and infection in the bone just 24 hours after the fight -- but it was the fight.

It’s bad, but she’s still eating (albeit slowly) and pooping. She's getting a penicillin injection every 48 hours and 1.25 cc's of Chlor Palm 250 every 12 hours. It’s probably inoperable so it had better work. We've been cleaning it twice a day with diluted Betadine on a q-tip, managed to get a lot of the pus out so she's looking better.

Wish I could say the same for Sherry. I'm regretting even trying to clean her's out. Maybe it was a coincidence but she got much worse after the attempt. Sherry didn't see the vet because her's wasn't too bad at the time and the vet said to give her a penicillin shot and keep an eye on it. She goes in tomorrow.

Lisa REALLY hates me now. She had finally been getting a lot friendlier. She was out in the yard for a yard sale/pet-the-bunnies event last weekend and was really sweet!

Any experiences out there with straight penicillin and Chlor Palm therapy? The vet took a culture but not sure when the results will be in.


sas :nerves1

 

[Maureen Las]

Straight penicillin would be penicillin G ..this is the short acting kind and should be given daily instead of QOD. You shoulddilute the penicillin with lactated ringers to help preventsterile abscesses and also to prevent a sting Chlorpalm is chlorophenical. This is the drug that humans should not have skin contact with because of possible bone marrow suppression. Don't get it on yourself when you give it; best to wear gloves.

This is the combination of drugs that Randy would promote and use in fairly high doses. Since Randy doesn't believe in surgical removal of abscesses all I can say is that based on what I learned from him they both have a chance.
What a terrible fight they must have had :shock:

let me know what's going on with both of them

 

[Maureen Las]

http://www.drugs.com/vet/chlorpalm-125-can.html

In bicillin pencillin benzathine is the long acting one and procaine penicillin is the short acting one
are you giving procaine pen G alone?

 

[Pipp]

Thanks, great info. The suspension I have here is 250, it's half the dose info of the 125.

I'm wondering about the dose because the bottle I have was originally prescribed for Dill, but I lost him before I used it. Dill was a three pound bunny and his dose was 2 CC's, Lisa is a 5 lb bunny and the vet said her dose is 1.25 CC's.

The site says it should be short term use, but my vet said to keep her on it as long as she had the abscess -- three months if need be.

I'm also wondering about my vet's surgery plan. He usually wants to operate and mentioned it again today -- he wants to remove the abscess from her lip.

And I'm not sure about the storage. I had it in my purse and left it there for a week before putting it in the fridge. The above site says to store it under 23 degrees centigrade (73 F), I don't know how hot it got that week (we had pretty crappy weather). I may ask for another bottle just to be safe.

Thanks again.

sas :?

 

[JadeIcing]

Pipp wrote:

The site says it should be short term use, but my vet said to keep her on it as long as she had the abscess -- three months if need be.

Ringo was on it for 10mnths before he tried the zithromax. It kept his illness some what controlled.

 

[Pipp]

JadeIcing wrote:

Ringo was on it for 10mnths before he tried the zithromax. It kept his illness some what controlled.

Dill was originally prescribed it for head tilt, hmmm, thanks for the reminder. Did the zithromax work any better?

Not sure about Chlor Palm and abscesses.

Thanks for this.


sas

 

[JadeIcing]

No idea Zithro for what they are fighting but for Ringo yes it did. His issues now are something else.

 

[Maureen Las]

If you thought that the temp of the med in your purse was too high then you should get another bottle
I would listen more to JadeIcing who has more experience actually using these drugs than to me...
my info... chlorophenical and pencillin was theoretical in that it was given to me by Randy in terms of what to use for Babette.
Icould only get a hold of the penicillin so only used that.
if you can get a hold of zithromaz that is also an A+ drug used along with penicillin; that is also a good combo
I would go with what has worked for other rabbits than anything that is a "good idea"

In terms of dosing I would ask the vet. I don't know why he would lessen the dose with Lisa except that possibly it is because she is also on pencillin.
In terms of surgery it might be useful to contact Bon who has not been on the forum since he lost Gizmo. Gizmo had successful surgery and successful medication BUT the stress of all of this was too much for Gizmo who died. despite EVERYTHING BEING DONE RIGHT.
I have thought about this a lot since Beau had 6 teeth extracted. Last week I was not sure that he would pull through...and it wasn't because of infection...it was because maybe all of this is too much stress for a rabbit.

We have to consider how much a rabbit can take .....

it wouild also be good to talk to Haley (where is she?) as she has dealt with these meds also.

I wish that I could help more:?

 

[Pipp]

Missed your PenG question, the prescription only says 'Penicillin 10 mg'. I don't know if that is PenG or just straight penicillin and an ingredient in PenG.

Glad to hear (or at least be reminded) that Randy recommended Chlor Palm, I only remembered the Zithromax. I do hope he sent off the culture.

I was just reading an old Etherbun post (from Susan, my fav poster there before she went MIA) saying that an abscess kept under control should be considered a success even if not eradicated. I think the reference was a tooth root issue.

I'm hoping that seeing as the start of these abscesses were monitored and really were treated very quickly that they won't take hold. Especially Sherry's. She moved in with my upstairs neighbour who has really bonded with her (and vice-versa). He is devastated that his little 'roommate' is in peril.

Sherry hates the shots, I think they sting her. They were given to me already prepared in a syringe, I think there is saline in there, but it still stings.

If Chlor Palm (or drugs like it) can't take much heat at all, I'll get a new bottle, thanks.

We're all just members helping members, trading info and experience really helps so much. I've been meaning to see how Bon is doing, maybe I'll drop him a PM.

sas :thanks:

 

[Pet_Bunny]

Grr ... lost my post.

Short version.
Last year I had Pebbles on Baytril (sneezing) for 2 weeks. It was ineffective so I switched to Chlor Palm. After 3 weeks of Chlor Palm, Pebbles was still sneezing so I had a culture test done and came up with Doxycyline. Treatment was successful. This year Pebbles had Head Tilt, and I used Doxycyline again, and again it worked.

Chlor Palm has a vanilla flavor and no refrigeration is needed. Store below 23ºC and protect from freezing. And the bottle I have expires 07/09.

 

[Maureen Las]

How are the girls?..........

 

[Pipp]

Labour intensive!

Sherry went to the vet but it was a waste of money -- or would have been had I not had an exam credit for the Scooter fiasco. Her abscess is not in a great area for surgery and it's not the kind that can be cleaned out, so the best course at this point is to continue the same penicillin/chlorpalm regiment as Lisa.

Sherry is on Critical Care and 'angry salad' therapy -- which is waving parsley, etc, in her face long enough to get her mad enough to rip it to shreds and eat a good chunk of it in the process. She is also on Metacam for pain and acidophilus to counteract the antibiotics (administered three hours after the antibiotics). She's still not eating on her own. Her abscess hasn't gotten any bigger and may be shrinking though.

Lisa is eating, albeit slowly, which means Marvin and Peaches are grabbing her share. Her abscess is still a pussy mess under her lower lip with a lump on her chin as well as pus below the gum and left cheech. It's being cleaned twice a day with diulted Betadine -- poor bunny, the stuff tastes awful.

She does this yawning thing sometimes when we're cleaning it, and I think I see a white spot on the very back of her tongue, but I'm not sure it's a pus bubble. Maybe they have a weird flap of skin or a tonsil or something back there?


sas :?

 

[Maureen Las]

OMG ...the lives we lead for our rabbits

You've got your hands full :shock:

Idon't know about the white spot at the back of the tongue as I havenever seen the back of the tongue.
You sounds as if you are doing everything possible for them so all I can suggest is giving them some pumpkin too because it is easier to feed than CC.

ray::hugsquish:

taking care of Beau's mouth has seemed like a full time job but 2 girls with all these problems......................

 

[gentle giants]

Was it the peniccilin you had in your purse, or the Chlorpalm? Pennicillin should be kept in the fridge, so you would definatly need a new bottle of it. YOu can get Pen-G at farm supply stores, like Rural King or Tractor Supply. That is where I get mine, I always keep it on hand for any rescue that may need it. Also, like Angieluv said, are you using procaine Pen-G only? Because that has to be given every day. And about how long they are on the Penicillin-- I have had Hope on it for her jaw abscess since the beginning of July, and it is slooowly shrinking. I think I have also heard Randy say he has used it long term before as well, but don't quote me on that one. Good luck, sounds like you have your hands full there!