Several rabbits off their feed

[Flashy]

I'm thinking of you and hoping that the little boogers start eating with gusto today and that they were just being finikety (if that's a word).

 

[MsBinky]

Of course Peg :hug2:I hope they all get better soon. :rose:

 

[TinysMom]

We are now down to three that I am concerned about.

Triad is off his feed - totally. I thought he had eaten before but I saw where he dumped his food bowl over into his litter pan. He has taken some hay and is drinking good. He ate maybe 1 tablespoon last night.

Billy Sunny....is eating a bit. Not much - but some. He will eat a little bit of hay - not much.

Miss Bea has eaten some - not much and she's just not herself....I'm about to make her up some pumpkin and baby food - she loves that a lot - so we'll see if she takes it.

Everyone else is either eating their food or eating hay. Saphira even ate about 3/4 of her supper last night....and has munched a few times today.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

Ok guys, this might be weird but... My mom's dogs were sick right? well, Bo and Clover were sort of not eating Saturday...... and not drinking which both LOVE their water.

I wonder if there isn't a virus going through that affects all the bunnies and dogs?

 

[TinysMom]

Bo B Bunny wrote:

Ok guys, this might be weird but... My mom's dogs were sick right? well, Bo and Clover were sort of not eating Saturday...... and not drinking which both LOVE their water.

I wonder if there isn't a virus going through that affects all the bunnies and dogs?

Bo - if all of my bunnies had been affected - I'd be thinking that. But approximately 10% of my bunnies were affected. I just talked to Robin a bit ago - maybe 2 in the garage are still not eating all their food as usual...but they're not totally off.

There are still three I'm fretting about - Zeus is no longer a worry as he found the Cheerios bag and I found him chowing down on them....I would've taken a picture but my batteries were in the charger and the poops behind him would've looked bad...when I get the room clean -I may accidentally leave the bag down and see if I can get a picture - 3/4 of him was in the bag with his butt sticking out...

But Miss Bea, Triad and Billy are all still off their feed significantly enough that I'm worried...

 

[Flashy]

What Zeus did reminds me of how I caught Sandy the other morning with her head in the Timothy hay bag. All I could see was her tail.

I hope the other three pick themselves up soon. Poor you and poor them

 

[Maureen Las]

I wonder what could have caused it? :shock:Has their been a signifcant change in the weather in Texas Peg?

DO you remember feeding any of them anything different than the usual?

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

Peg, In answer to your first question, here is the reply I just recieved today about the question you asked.

Hi Emily,
What has been happening with the rabbits is GI stasis. Basically there is a blockage created in the bowels and the rabbit quits eating and passing stool and teeth grinding is common at the end due to the pain. The problem with the food seems to be mold, Pfaus redesigned their bags but the problem is that there is no venelation for the moisture with the new bags. They are trying to figure out how to fix the problem. There are ways to fix GI Stasis if you catch it early. Straight Pineapple juice (small amounts syring feed to the rabbit) followed by some water. You have to do this several times during the day and then while the rabbit is facing you palpitate the rabbits stomach (squeezing not just pushing) to try and loosen the blockage. Make sure the rabbit has hay and water 24/7 but no pellets until they start passing stool. Hope that helps, let me know if have any other questions.

Hope this helps!
Emily

 

[TinysMom]

angieluv wrote:

I wonder what could have caused it? :shock:Has their been a signifcant change in the weather in Texas Peg?

DO you remember feeding any of them anything different than the usual?

There has been nothing different than the usual....and here are some interesting differences...

• The trio has different water than the others - yet two of the three came down with it
• Some areas of the house were getting hay from one bale - some from another bale. One bale was coastal and one was the dreaded alfalfa (yeah - I give them *some* sometimes....like when I have babies). Some of the rabbits that got sick were eating one hay - some were eating the other. None of the hay was "new" until after they got sick and I got into another fresh bale of hay
• Some areas of the house have different "air supply" than others. What I mean by that is - the back door is frequently open for the rabbitry along with windows to let in fresh air. My office and the living room are mainly air conditioned.
• Some rabbits were fed by Robin - some by me.
• Some rabbits were watered by Art (most of them) - some by me.

The only thing they had in common - was the food. That was quite literally the only common denominator.

The only thing these last three have in common - is they are among my favorites. I did get Miss Bea to eat some baby food/pumpkin....she's still not herself. Triad ate a bit of baby food/pumpkin. Billy doesn't want to eat....although he will eat a bit of hay.

I hate this - I really do. I just went and got three new bags of food since the last bag I got from Justin's last shipment - almost everyone ate. Robin did say that there were two in the garage that did not eat as much as usual - but they did still eat a good portion of it.

I'm considering switching to Purina....Justin can order it for me. But I swore I would never feed Purina after what happened before....(that was before I realized that any bag of any brand can get contaminated if circumstances are just right). So I wonder if I should use 1/2 Purina and 1/2 Wendlands (what I use)....

I just don't know at this point.

 

[Maureen Las]

From what you describe it could only be the food if that. I guess if the food was not 100% it could possibly affect the ones who had a lower immune response. I don't know why all of them woudn't be sick.
I know how you feel. We break our backs trying to do everything correctly and even then there are times that the rabbits are sick for no apparent reason at all.

I had rabbits that went into stasis from eating the bedding I used to use (Carefresh)..but it took me a long time to figure out they were eating it.

I wasn't on the forum for awhilebecause so many of my rabbits have problems and I return to discover that it is happening to a lot of members right now.


I sure hope it gets better.
I feed Purinal Complete in the green bag mixed with timothy pellets to several of my rabbits so I hope Purina remains OK.

 

[TinysMom]

I want to clarify something 'cause I mentioned Purina...

When I had problems w/ Purina - it was shortly after Hurricane Katrina....and several folks I talked to wondered if that could have somehow affected the hay or feed or whatever because of the water and stuff...its hard to explain.

However, I later found out that most breeders here in Tx (that I spoke with) had had issues before w/ Purina.

Now - I know folks outside of Texas that love it and swear by it.....

At the same time - a rabbit breeder up in Washington state - lost like 20 juniors in just a couple of days - had their food tested (something I didn't know to do)...along with asking Purina to test it. Purina's results did NOT match the results that the state came up with (beats me)......so I don't know what was happening there.

I also know several other breeders who've had issues w/ this brand.....and once again - I know others who swear by it.

I suspect it has something to do with the fact that Purina is milled in several locations across the country.

I do not think it is JUST Purina or JUST any one brand. As I pointed out - I heard later of someone who had mycotoxins on Oxbow (and they DID have the food tested)...and yet that is a beloved food on here.

I think any bag of any brand can get contaminated in any way....and the best thing to do is just know your rabbits enough so you know if they go off their feed you can recognize it.

I used to swear that I would never ever use Purina again - but after talking to Justin at the feed store - I think I'm going to switch and use 1/2 Purina and 1/2 of the brand I'm using now.....and try that for a couple of months and see if that helps.

As of right now - Triad ate some....Miss Bea and Billy are the only two left to worry about.

Oh - and Zeus? I don't remember if I mentioned. He found the Cheerios bag yesterday on the floor....and decided it was "self-serve". I found him with his front 2/3 in the bag with his butt sticking out. I said "ZEUS!" and he backed out and looked at me - and then went back in the bag to munch as quickly as he could. I was laughing too hard to do much to stop him at the moment.

Two weeks ago - he never would've had the confidence in our relationship to do that...

 

[TinysMom]

I wanted to add something - when I talked about feed just a minute ago - I wasn't discounting what Pam said about viruses....but someone had mentioned Purina and I wanted to point out that I think any brand could have issues.....not just that one (which is sure a lot different than I felt a couple of years ago).

 

[naturestee]

Pam, I think if you suspect the food and are concerned about similar problems in the future, then it's probably a good idea to mix two types of food. That way if something seems off in brand 1, the rabbits can still eat brand 2 without having their tummies upset by a sudden food switch.

I'd be willing to bet that a lot of the mycotoxin problems are related to how stuff is stored. If it's really humid, or sitting directly on the floor instead of on pallets, or kept in an air tight container, it would probably encourage mold growth even if it looks good to the naked human eye. But there's no way to know how the stuff that you buy gets transported and stored by the middle men before it gets to your feed store.

 

[TinysMom]

Well - here is how Justin gets his food from Wendland's - the food I use.

The food gets milled in a up near Temple, TX I think it is. He places his order. He gets his food (I'm not sure how he gets it) - but it is delivered to him....and he bags it into the 25 pound bags and the 50 pound bags as he needs it bagged. I guess he bags it once it comes in.

I've had times when I've gone to get 6-8 bags of food and he's said to me, "I can give you X bags but I need you to come back on Wednesday for the rest.." or whatever.

He only tries to order what he knows he can use - he wants it as fresh as possible and not to go stale.

Both he and his wife stated that they figured Purina would be more "exact" in the milling process and maybe less likely to have problems...because they are nationwide and have done a lot of research, etc. So they're more than willing to order Purina for me...and they do order it in for some folks.

My problem w/ Purina is I'm not as sure how fresh it will be (I know I can check the dates on the bag). I mean - I can set up an order w/ Justin to order X bags of Purina every two weeks for me...and have it as a standing order and that will be great.

I guess because Purina is so big and because it has such a bad reputation among breeders here in this area - I'm nervous.

But other than that - I would have to go 70 miles one way every two weeks to get my food (and hope that they have enough to feed my rabbits)....or go once a month and buy enough for a month but I hate to have the food sitting around here.

So it is a tough decision. If I hadn't found out that Zeus had been on Purina (and his fur was absolutely wonderful when I got him)....I would never be considering using it again....

I think the 50/50 mix is gonna be the best way for me to go....

 

[polly]

Peg I know i have had this happen before but maybe only with 1 or 2 rabbits that seem to be fussy after trying them with no success with a new bag i usually end up trying a muesli (i know everyone hates it) and i prefer pellets but usually its enough to get mine eating again or i give them the baby pellets we can get over here (not sure if you can get something similar) they are usually the same barnd but have higher contents for dwarfs and baby rabbits.

This seems to work well for me to get them back onto a feed then i will wean them back over to the normal food.

Either sound like something wasn't right in the feed for so many to go off it or a virus would be plausible cause its most likely to hit the buns with weaker immune systems! does that eqaute to the ones that came down maybe?

Also maybe worth you trying cider vinegar in the water as it can help digestive systems (I was told it is menat to help them absorb nutrients better) i dilute around 2 mls into a litre of water. makes their coats lovely too!!

 

[TinysMom]

polly wrote:

Either sound like something wasn't right in the feed for so many to go off it or a virus would be plausible cause its most likely to hit the buns with weaker immune systems! does that eqaute to the ones that came down maybe?

The thing that hit me was your comment about the "weaker immune systems". You know what....I could understand Saphira getting ill....so in her case - yes.

Zeus? He used to eat like a horse (and he is again). Miss Bea is older...so maybe...

But Billy Sunny? He always scarfs down his food....

Several of the others were my HEALTHIEST rabbits...which I'm happy about because I think that is why I still have them.

So I don't know what to think. I went out and got some probiotic....it turns out that the brand ProBios is just like Benebac (which I was out of)...and I was able to get it in both powder form and gel form...so I got both.

 

[polly]

Thats true Peg though I have a bun that would eat his food before u could get it in his cage and i have buns in and out all the time but Bill has come in the house and picked up Dennis's sneezes!! I would have siad he was one of my healthiest 3 others usually live in the living room constantly and have never got them!!

 

[Leaf]

ra7751 wrote:

I don't think I need to mention all the food borne illnesses that are in the news with humans.....and the major dog food recall from last year (that originated from a mill in NC).

Randy, was that the case? As I recall, it was from contaminated wheat gluten in the food products. And if I'm not mistaken, the wheat gluten was a product from... China?

 

[JimD]

hi peg,

i missed most of this, but thought i'd offer my input.

i used purina complete (green bag) and was always happy with it.
ionly switched in an effort to find a lower protein content, and ended up with kaytee timothy complete.
buck jones used the purina blue bag for years and never had a problem.

iremember when you and i had our difference of opinion over purina.
i did quite a bit of research back then and found a lot of interesting things about purina that i never knew.
if i remeber correctly, they only manufacture the rabbit feed at select facilities to ensure there is no cross contamination from other feed products.

purina has a shelf life of 12 months if stored properly.