Seasonal Changes and Bunny Digestion...

[Jenk]

I'm wondering if anyone's noticed their bunners have digestive issues that coincide with seasonal changes? My Zoe has had nearly-normal fecals for the last 4-5 months'; now her gut feels overly-firm most of the time, she seems uncomfy (but better after taking Simethicone), and she's passing odd- and broken-shaped fecals.

I'm wondering if it's time to call the vet to see about trying her on Propulsid, which has helped her in the past. (It seems that when her intestines empty out, her stomach follows suit; and the assembly line works better.)

Thank you,

Jenk

 

[Flashy]

I wuld sort of be inclined to say don't react too pre-emptively. It might be that she just needs some time to settle. If she is not in stasis and is still passing a moderate amount of poo then maybe its worth giving her a chance to sort it out herself?

I know you've had really rough times with them and I know that it can be hard to find the balance between the confidence of giving them some time, and knowing when to act before anything catastrophic happens. Owning buns is not easy.

An example being that my Dusk had spurs (over Easter weekend). Wednesday he ate less than usual. Thursday I took him to the vets, and the vet booked him in for a dental on Saturday. Friday he wouldn't eat much but would eat some. Saturday he had his dental and wouldn't touch anything. Sunday he hardly touched anything and I didn't want to syringe feed him as much as I should, so I gave him a small amount. He was hardly passing anything, and had I taken the vets advice from the dental, I should have taken him back to the vets that day, but I chose not to. Monday, he wasn't much better, but there was some improvement, again, not enough and I probably should have taken him to the emergency vets (Easter Monday). Tuesday he was his normal bouncy self. I had to make choices based on Dusk, as opposed to based on rabbits in general, and I knew that a vet trip would stres shim more and make him more off his food. I used the tactic of putting him next to other rabbits in the runs and allowing him fresh air, and just giving him enough to keep him ticking over until he was ok.

I'm not saying you should wait, only you can make that call, I'm just illustrating, that sometimes waiting can work out ok. Obviously there are times when it doesn't, but that's down to the owner to decide what's best for their animal.

What do you think is in her best interests?

What does your gut instinct say? Not your anxiety born instinct, or habit, or what you did before, but your gut instinct.

 

[Jenk]

Flashy wrote:

I wuld sort of be inclined to say don't react too pre-emptively. It might be that she just needs some time to settle. If she is not in stasis and is still passing a moderate amount of poo then maybe its worth giving her a chance to sort it out herself?

I'll explain (below) why I get more nervous than not whenever her fecals start to decrease in size and deteriorate in shape....

I know you've had really rough times with them and I know that it can be hard to find the balance between the confidence of giving them some time, and knowing when to act before anything catastrophic happens.

That's exactly right. Finding the balancehas been even more difficult for me, though, since I used to take the girls to an exotics-only vet who (IMO) preferred me to panic; it made him more money. So I didn't develop a more rational sense of when to act and when to wait. He always encouraged me to act immediately. (More on that below...)

I'm not saying you should wait, only you can make that call, I'm just illustrating, that sometimes waiting can work out ok. Obviously there are times when it doesn't, but that's down to the owner to decide what's best for their animal.

Agreed. But this has happened to my girl in the past. And the one time that I decided to not panic, as as long as she was passing fecals, they continued to deteroriate in shape/size. By the time I brought her to the vet, he put her on motility drugs and chastised me for waiting "so long."

What do you think is in her best interests? What does your gut instinct say? Not your anxiety born instinct, or habit, or what you did before, but your gut instinct.

It's hard to say. I can tell that she's more uncomfy (at certain times of the day). I also need to keep in mind that the vet she currently sees doesn't keep Propulsid on hand and must order it (which takes several days' time). So if she needed that drug at a moment's notice, she and I would be up a creek.

Again, in my past experience, I was chastised for waiting 2-2.5 weeks' when my girl's fecals were decreasing in size and drying out, etc. That memory rather warps my sense of immediacy.

 

[Flashy]

Yeh, I know you've had it rough, and I remember before that your vet always wanted you to go to him straight away. I guess what you've been through, both with the rabbits, and the vets, has 'conditioned' you to act in a certain way. That is true of all of us in different ways, but it is ok to challenge that 'conditioning'.

When you say she is more uncomfy at different times of the day, at what times? Is there a trigger for it?

I wonder if pain meds might be worth a try, and maybe also a dental check if she hasn't had one recently.

If you think she might need the Propulsid (by the way, I have no idea what that is, what is it?) could you maybe just call the vets and ask them to order it in 'just in case'? That might give you some leeway as to what you choose to do and allow you to know your options are open.

 

[Jenk]

Flashy wrote:

...Iknow you've had it rough, and I remember before that your vet always wanted you to go to him straight away. I guess what you've been through, both with the rabbits, and the vets, has 'conditioned' you to act in a certain way. That is true of all of us in different ways, but it is ok to challenge that 'conditioning'.

I've been doing better, though, in terms of not panicking immediately. (I at least try to wait several days' before reaching the panic point. )

But, still, my early experiences with rabbit health issues--and the vet who treated them--didn't give me a good/rational grasp of things.

When you say she is more uncomfy at different times of the day, at what times? Is there a trigger for it?

Her discomfort (lying more in the box, pressing her tummy to the floor) occurred in the early evening--hours' after her pellet feeding, but prior to getting her parsley. So I can't quite pinpoint a trigger for the change in the feel of her gut (its hardness) and her "broken" fecals.

I wonder if pain meds might be worth a try, and maybe also a dental check if she hasn't had one recently.

Knowing her, it's gut-related (something amiss between the stomach, cecum and intestines).

If you think she might need the Propulsid (by the way, I have no idea what that is, what is it?) could you maybe just call the vets and ask them to order it in 'just in case'? That might give you some leeway as to what you choose to do and allow you to know your options are open.

I'd already considered calling the vet. In the past, though, she told me that it doesn't have a long shelf life, which would make it a waste of money. (But my buns' previous vet gave it at least a nine-month shelf life when refridgerated.)

Propulsid (Cisapride) works on the lower intestinal region (vs. the stomach/upper intestines). Ironically, I've just read online that it's been pulled from the market. So now I have left a message to have the vet call me because I want to pick her brain about my girl's odd fecals, as well as the truth about Propulsid. (I wonder if there's a replacement drug for it yet?)

 

[tonyshuman]

I agree that seasonal changes, which can often precipitate molts and discomfort due to changing temperatures, can make bunny guts grumble. I am, however, lucky in that my guys have steel stomachs (knock on wood). If I see little poos, or very hairy poos, I just give a dose of Bene-Bac and leave out a few melted ice cubes' worth of canned pumpkin (they will only eat it if you're not watching--unlike the hamster who LOVES when the bunnies get pumpkin cuz I always give her a little--too cute), and they're in tip-top shape by the time I'm home from work. I personally wouldn't do anything other than give probiotics and pumpkin as a pre-emptive strike.

On a side note, have you seen this article on veggies/pellets? I know you have a lot of trouble with your guys' guts, so this type of diet may be helpful. http://www.lagomorphs.com/greenspellets.pdf

At our shelter, we have a bunny that I assume is a megacolon bun. He's a smallish hotot mix type, and he ALWAYS has oblong ovaloid poos. He only gets Purina Hi-Fiber Lab Diet (1/4c), TONs of timmy hay, and maybe 1/2c of veggies a day. He always passes funny-looking poos, but I know that's how he is so I don't worry.

 

[Jenk]

tonyshuman wrote:

...Seasonal changes...can often precipitate molts and discomfort due to changing temperatures, can make bunny guts grumble....If I see little poos, or very hairy poos, I just give a dose of Bene-Bac and leave out a few melted ice cubes' worth of canned pumpkin,...and they're in tip-top shape by the time I'm home from work. I personally wouldn't do anything other than give probiotics and pumpkin as a pre-emptive strike.

I'm leery to give her pumpkin; her system doesn't react normally to anything new.

On a side note, have you seen this article on veggies/pellets?

I will be sure to read it. Thank you for providing it.

At our shelter, we have a bunny that I assume is a megacolon bun....He ALWAYS has oblong ovaloid poos. He only gets Purina Hi-Fiber Lab Diet (1/4c), TONs of timmy hay, and maybe 1/2c of veggies a day. He always passes funny-looking poos, but I know that's how he is so I don't worry.

Zoe's fecals have long been odd in shape (sometimes even triangular!). But for the past 4-5 months', I've had them looking nearly perfect--which took time and patience, as I slowly re-introduced pellets and parsley into her diet.

I don't worry as long as she passes a good amount of fecals. She still is...but nearly half of them are smaller than normal for her (and for a bun her size). When they turn small and broken-looking, I get concerned--especially because I don't like medicating her with things that her system's not used to (e.g., pumpkin).

I also worry because she ate a lot of plastic off of a litter box a few weeks' ago. For all I know, that could be a factor, too.