Religious Topic: Downloading music a sin?

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Pam,

You pay a monthly fee and get X songs for that amount. I want to say itis 25 songs for $9.95, 50 songs for $14.95 and 75 songs for $19.95? I'dhave to look at it again and check it out.

The downside is my kids say they don't care for the music they can geton there....like Eric couldn't get Pirates of the Carribean 2 (he gotit off iTunes) and Robin couldn't get Halo 2....

Personally, I think its ok to try the two week period and get 50 songsyou like and if you don't like it - cancel it. For me - I think itmight be worth it for a couple of months - for my kids - naw...they'vesaid, "thanks but no thanks".

Peg
 
I just noticed this on emusic.com when I read their terms and conditions:

5.6 eMusic derives its rightsto use the musical tracks offered on the Service from artists andrecord labels for fixed periods of time and, sometimes, for limitedterritories. As well, eMusic is sometimes required to pull certaintracks off the Service for legal reasons. Therefore, certain tracksoffered or advertised by eMusic may not be available when you try todownload, and not all tracks are available in all countries.

Peg

P.S. Here are their subscription plans:

  • eMusic Basic: $9.99 per month/30 downloads - that's $.33 asong
  • eMusic Plus: $14.99 per month/50 downloads - that's $.30 asong
  • eMusic Premium: $19.99 per month/75 downloads - that's $.27a song (best value!)
 
I just read this entire thread. I have nocomments about downloading music as I don't do it. What fascinates meis the struggle over the correct moral decision in relationship todownloading. It portrays a side to many RO members that I never knewbefore.......an intense discussion over the right thing to doindicating that many RO members have strong consciences and confirms mybelief thatwerabbit people are really as great as Ihave always thought. Merry Christmas RO... Love Angieluv :D
 
This is definitely so confusing...

Out of all the songs I want, there's only about 50. And it's only froma total of about 10 artists. I may just go buy the CD's for a cheaperprice at Sam's Club for about 5 of the ones I really like, and spendabout 10 dollars to get the other 10 or so songs off ITunes, since it'sthe simplest place to get them from (considering I have to use theITunes program to upload my music to my IPod). More expensive, but inthe end, I am POSITIVE that it is purely legal, and the fully correctthing to do.

Belated Merry Christmas to you too Angieluv!


 
I don't always do the right thing but I amalways aware when Iam notdoing the rightthing. For ex. I once bought a coffee table and never got the bill. Ireally couldn't afford the coffee table and rationalized that the moneywent towards a vet bill which seemed to justify it tomyself.....(really know that wasn't right )
 
emusic.com is definitely legal - I know a numberof musicians who have licensed download rights to them. They wouldnever have done this if they were not getting at least some kind ofremuneration from them, no matter how small. (And most musicians don'tsee much from legal downloads....)

I honestly think that if you want to make sure that artists are paid,you almost have to buy brand-new (not used) CDs. It's perfectly legalto sell and buy used CDs, but I think (in this context) it's importantto be aware that the artists and their labels make no profit from usedCD sales.

Sorry if my posts have been confusing, but this whole issue isconfusing! In many ways, there are lots of shades of grey, as opposedto clear, black-and-white areas of both law and ethics. (And I strugglewith this myself, believe me!)


 
ec wrote:
emusic.com is definitely legal - I know a number ofmusicians who have licensed download rights to them. They would neverhave done this if they were not getting at least some kind ofremuneration from them, no matter how small. (And most musicians don'tsee much from legal downloads....)

I honestly think that if you want to make sure that artists are paid,you almost have to buy brand-new (not used) CDs. It's perfectly legalto sell and buy used CDs, but I think (in this context) it's importantto be aware that the artists and their labels make no profit from usedCD sales.

Sorry if my posts have been confusing, but this whole issue isconfusing! In many ways, there are lots of shades of grey, as opposedto clear, black-and-white areas of both law and ethics. (And I strugglewith this myself, believe me!)


And you just made another really good point as well. Used CD's... theartists get no money when the CD's are re-bought used. However, buyingused CD's IS legal. Songs that are available for download off serviceslike Limewire, 99.9% of them come from people who have BOUGHT the CD's,and then upload the songs to their PC and have shared them with otherson the same P2P network. Which is what makes this go all the way backto an original question: what's the difference? There's also nodifference in a friend of mine buying a CD and letting me borrow it tolisten to as oppose to be buying the CD myself...however that type of'sharing' is legal. I never heard anyone say, "Yep, I borrowed BillyBob's CD and I got busted by the law for illegal sharing!"

The entire issue is a headache, and the laws really are very shady. Inmy opinion, there shouldn't be a law, or it should be a better law.Like protecting the re-selling of songs that were downloaded, ect. Notprosecuting those who are downloading the music for their own personalenjoyment (like myself) and who have no intentions of re-selling themusic.
 
I watched a programme on this the other day.They said that any site that offers unlimted download for a set fee isillegal. I understand that artists may allow the license of their musicfor these sites but the only sites that are legal are iTunes,Sony, Yahoo! Music etc. The law is that no site can charge a set feefor unlimited download because it is far more of a benefit to them. Thelaw is that all downloaded material must be of some set cost. This canbe 1p or anything, but sites that are charging fees for unlimited musicare illegal because of new laws. To say all that - i get my friends tosend me songs (so i don't end up with the viruses andmajoruse of virtual memorythat programmes like Limewire areguarenteed to cause) or i buy on iTunes, if i can afford it. I've spentweeks dying because i don't have a song i really want and if thathappens i have to save for it.

To be honest no matter how you think it might be right we all know itswrong. It is stealing - why do you think they invented CD's that peoplebuy?
 
I think it is wrong. Look at it this way: Wouldyou shoplift a CD? Even if you were the ONLY person to listen to it?You arn't making copies if it to sell to friends or anything, justlistening to it yourself. Is that stealing? Well, the law says it is.

This reason has nothing to do with morals, though I am aChristian. What if everyone did? Would you want everybody todownload music for free? If everyone started doing that pretty soon therecord lables would go out of business because they wouldn't be makingany money, and so we wouldn't have music anymore beause it doesn't pay.And that would be worse than having to PAY $22.19 for a measly 14 songs.

I think there are some other options that you could take so that it would be a bit more legal.
My friend really likes music and is always buying CDs. She doesn'treally have that much money. I mean, how much money can a 14 year oldhave when her parents don't give her allowence and she lived to far outto get a job? She gets this magizine that lets her get them for a lotless then they are sold for in stores. I'm also pretty sure it tellsyou a bit about the artist.
 
I couldn't agree with you more, in terms ofbetter, less "shady" laws, and I think most musicians feel the sameway. Things will eventually change, but it will take a long time for itto happen.

I'm not crazy about P2P for a lot of reasons, BTW. And even though youdon't see many people selling illegal CDs on the street where you are,it's the rule in many parts of the world - which goes back to the pointre. depriving people of a living (the musicians, i mean) and givingthem proper compensation for what they've done.

I can't imagine that anyone in their right mind would believe that usedrecord/CD sales were wrong, but (believe it or not), there have beenindustry efforts here in the US to try and stop that - just like theirpush to try to stop the sale of blank cassettes, etc. (So much seems tobe about profit and loss, rather than what is right or wrong...)

MyBoyHarper wrote:
The entire issueis a headache, and the laws really are very shady. In my opinion, thereshouldn't be a law, or it should be a better law. Like protecting there-selling of songs that were downloaded, ect. Not prosecuting thosewho are downloading the music for their own personal enjoyment (likemyself) and who have no intentions of re-selling the music.
 
I don't really know what to think about themoral side of it, but honestly, what freaks me out is the legalside. That said, I usually get my music fromfriends. We burn eachother cd's and share that way.That and my dad had an immense cd collection already. I amprobably the only 16 year old with this many Don Ho songs on theiriPod, but what can you say. I find a problem alot of peoplehave with itunes is that once they hook it up to their credit card,they can't stop spending. That's why the monthly allowancefeatures they have are helpful. I usually just buy the giftcards and just let myself spend that much.

Every week itunes does free music downloads. I always get those, just because they're free.

One thing you really have to consider is, if I didn't have it on cdalready, I wasn't going to be listening to it, right.

Also, I love the podcasts, and they're free.
 
Here's something I didn't know till my sonpointed it out to me last night...apparently downloading music inCanada is legal, so long as the user isn't also uploading. Here's somesnippets from an article from CNET:

******************************************************

Downloading copyrighted music from peer-to-peer networks is legal inCanada, although uploading files is not, Canadian copyright regulatorssaid in a ruling released Friday.

In the same decision, the Copyright Board of Canada imposed agovernment fee of as much as $25 on iPod-like MP3 players, putting thedevices in the same category as audio tapes and blank CDs. The moneycollected from levies on "recording mediums" goes into a fund to paymusicians and songwriters for revenues lost from consumers' personalcopying. Manufacturers are responsible for paying the fees and oftenpass the cost on to consumers.

The peer-to-peer component of the decision was prompted by questionsfrom consumer and entertainment groups about ambiguous elements ofCanadian law. Previously, most analysts had said uploading was illegalbut that downloading for personal use might be allowed.

"As far as computer hard drives are concerned, we say that for the timebeing, it is still legal," said Claude Majeau, secretary general of theCopyright Board.
The decision is likely to ruffle feathers on many sides, fromconsumer-electronics sellers worried about declining sales tointernational entertainment companies worried about the spread ofpeer-to-peer networks.

In its decision Friday, the Copyright Board said uploading ordistributing copyrighted works online appeared to be prohibited undercurrent Canadian law.

However, the country's copyright law does allow making a copy forpersonal use and does not address the source of that copy or whetherthe original has to be an authorized or noninfringing version, theboard said.

Under those laws, certain media are designated as appropriate formaking personal copies of music, and producers pay a per-unit fee intoa pool designed to compensate musicians and songwriters. Most audiotapes and CDs, and now MP3 players, are included in that category.Other mediums, such as DVDs, are not deemed appropriate for personalcopying.

Computer hard drives have never been reviewed under that provision,however. In its decision Friday, the board decided to allow personalcopies on a hard drive until a fee ruling is made specifically on thatmedium or until the courts or legislature tell regulators to ruleotherwise.

"Until such time, as a decision is made on hard drives, for the timebeing, (we are ruling) in favor of consumers," Majeau said.

******************************************************

This ruling was made in 2003, and (so far as I know) is still upheld inCanada. There's also a few other countries that have made it legal,although it seems the United States isn't included.

Here's the link to the full article:

http://news.com.com/2100-1025_3-5121479.html
 
I'll admit, I haven't read through the entire thread, but figured I'd add my :twocents

It is true that not everything that's wrong is illegal, and that noteverything illegal is wrong. However, I think there is a prettystrong precedent in both the Bible and church history for following thelaws of the land. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and all that...

To my understanding, the only time it is acceptable to break the law iswhen it requires you to do something that clearly violates yourChristian morals (like the believers who met in secret whenChristianity was illegal) Somehow it seems hard to put downloadingmusic on that level.

Ultimately, though, you need to trust the still small voice. That's more important than anything we could tell you :hug2:
 
When I was child I went to allCatholicschools and at that time nuns and priest wereteachers. I develloped a condition called " being scrupulous"which meant that I over analyzed every situation and created sinseverywhere. I had to go talk with the priests (like a psychiatrist) toovercome this as "the "little voice inside"was overdoing it.

I no longer have this condition as I no longer practice catholocism,however some people can't always listen to the "little voice" ofconscience

I am so proud of my little paragraphs.....read the off topic post on this.
 
Angie:hug2:

The "still small voice" was what Elijah heard when God spoke to him (2Kings 19:12). Since MBH asked for opinions from fellow Christians, Ifelt safe suggesting that she listen to God (aka Holy Spirit) on thisone.

I do believe we can hear those little voices and feel the pangs of'conscience' that aren't the voice of God but rather our doubts andfears. I also believe that God does speak to us and we can "know hisvoice" (John 10:4)
 

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