Religious Topic: Downloading music a sin?

[MyBoyHarper]

I'm looking for opinions from other Christianshere, since I haven't been able to find an answer from too many people,and the answers I've gotten were mixed.

I'm getting a new Ipod for christmas. My mother thought it would be anice gift for me since I just started college in the fall. I wasthrilled until I began thinking about it... I cannot afford $20 for aCD, nor can I afford $1 a song to download off Itunes. 50 songs = 50dollars that I don't have. So others, including my mother and an olderChristian friend, told me to just download the songs off of Limewire.No big deal. I went looking on Limewire and sure enough, the songs Iwant are there. Great.

But is this stealing? I have christian friends justifying it, includingmy mother, by saying that it is not stealing if I am just uploading itto an Ipod for my own personal enjoyment. I am not selling it, nor am Imaking a profit from it. I am also not taking credit for the music, oranything of that nature. Just downloading it to listen to. This seemsinnocent in and of itself, but I am doing that as opposed to buyingCD's that I can't afford.

My older christian friend made a statement last night that not allillegal things are wrong and not all wrong things are illegal. (Becausethe bible states that you must obey the law of the land, but the lawshave gotten out of control!) And the law states that downloading musicis illegal, but others justify that it's truly not (or shouldn't be)because the artists are charging people for their voice, which God gavethem for free.

This is all so confusing! I really want to enjoy my new Christmaspresent, but I have litterally lost sleep and have knots in my stomachover this issue. I want to download the music and enjoy it like normalcollege students. But asa Christian, I also don't want to becomitting a sin. And in the end, I really don't KNOW if I am committinga sin.

Anyone want to help me out with this?

 

[Bassetluv]

I've wrestled with this in the past too, MBH.While downloading music, videos, etc. is considered piracy if it isn'tdone through legitimate sources, what problem should there be if one isconsidering doing it for their own personal use, if they have no plansto share the files with anyone, and purchasing the actual music/videosetc. is out of the question for them. I guess it's kind of treading athin line morally...sort of an 'I can't afford the music, but it'sthere for the taking and I'm not going to be doing anything illicitwith it, so it's okay, right?' kind of thing. Anything can be justifiedwhen one wants to justify it...yet if it's 'niggling' at you, causingyou to have a subconscious feeling of guilt somewhere inside, then youknow what the answer is for you personally.

Myself...I've downloaded songs in the past through Limewire. I thinkLimewire is now set up so you can either register and pay a small fee,or you can do it for free...but the company doesn't take anyresponsibility for consequences of downloading pirated music. It'sactually funny you brought this topic up, as I had just decided theother day to no longer use Limewire (or any other source) fordownloading unless I actually become a paid subscriber. I finally cameto the conclusion (for myself) that it is stealing, as the peopleholding the copyrights to the music have not given their permission forthose particular files to be shared.

All I can say is, you will find the answer within yourself as towhether it is morally okay for you to do or not. But if you do decideto go with them, be careful that you aren't nabbed for illegaldownloading. Oh, and Limewire (at least, the 'free'section)can benotorious for viruses as well, somake sure your computer is protected.

I'm also not sure, but my son might be able to recommend a place whereyou can download music very cheaply, with minimum risk for viruses.I'll ask him tonight and see if he suggests anything...

 

[Haley]

Im a christian as well, and I download music allthe time off the internet. Ive been doing less of it lately (I guess Imjust scared of getting caught..remember how they prosecuted all thosepeople using napster and such?)..

I think its a dumb law though. I think that we should be allowed toshare music that we purchase with others. I think if artists were in itfor the right reasons (creating music for people to enjoy) and not forthe sole purpose of making money to fuel their frivolous spending, itwould be allowed.

I dont know, but I say go ahead. Im surea lot of people wouldsay its wrong, or stealing, but I dont see a problem with sharing music.

 

[AngelnSnuffy]

Morally, I don't have any advice tooffer. I just wanted to give you some info on p2pprograms. We use Winmx music. Used to be calledjust Winmx. Here's what we do. I don't share anymusic, except one song in the shared folder in the program.

What you do is make a folder, call it whatever you want, take all songsexcept for one out of your shared folder after every song you get inwhatever program you end up using (if you decide to do it) and put thesongs in the folder you make. Then you are only sharing onesong, which you have to have. I have heard that this makesothers that use the program upset, but, hey, at least you areprotecting yourself. You are enjoying what you have for yourown personal use as you said, and not sharing it, which is how thepeople on Napster, etc. were busted.

Hope that makes sense, a co-worker keeps talking while I'm trying to think and type-Hee Hee.

Let us know what you decide, if you like. I hope you comeup with an answer for you.

 

[TinysMom]

What I'm about to share is what I try to go byas a Christian...for myself. I can't tell you what YOU should do -these are simply my guidelines.

I try to think about the fact that the two greatest commandments we'regiven are "Love the Lord your God" and "Love your neighbor as you loveyourself."

Now - ask yourself...if I had created this music and it was my sourceof income...how would I feel if others were getting it for free? Is itbeing loving if I download it for free and not help them get at leastsome of what they earn?

Yes - I think musicians and others are overpaid....but does that makewhat I do right if I download it for free and they don't approve?

I'll be praying for you. We've faced this decision with movies....

Peg

 

[pamnock]

I think your conscience has already answered thequestion for you because you're getting the nagging feeling thatsomething isn't right in what you're doing.



Pam

 

[AngelnSnuffy]

I have one thing to add. How is thisany different than the days of recording from radio to tapeortape to tape? I did that all the time.I'm a music freak. I love stuff from most genres. Iremember when John Lennon was on the Top 40, yes sir.

Edit: Sorry, or recording a show/movie toyourVCR? Seriously, it's basically the samething. So, due to technology, does thismake it different? Just wondering your thoughts. Iknow that when I was growing up (in a Catholic school) I made alot oftapes for my personal enjoyment. Just a thought.

You're not the entity that put it on the internet for anyone to accesswith their own abilities either. After the laws were inplace, it's still out there. The artists and record companiescan't even get this to stop, why? I don' t know.You would think that there would be a way. They have though,pirated it so a disc/dvd can't be copied. :shock::dunno:


I also don't think that God will stop you from getting into Heavenbecause you got music you didn't own from the internet or recordingshows to your VCR. I think it's more of loving your neighboras yourself and treating God's Creation with respect, basically,following the Ten Commandments.

I am not trying to persuade you, rather, just give my input, I hope you don't mind.

 

[ec]

There are musicians out there who make their music (tracks from albums)available on their web sites. Not everyone is opposed to sharing.

I struggle with this myself, as I'm a musician/music reviewer and amaware of many ways of finding recordings that are very rare (out ofprint and extremely costly) via the internet. In many cases, musiciansthemselves are sharing those files.

I even have an MP3 blog, but the music isn't downloadable - I use aFlashplayer program that allows people to hear the music (ripped at alow bitrate). They can decide to go and purchase an album on the basisof a 1-track-per-post sample, or not. Most of the tracks I've postedare either from out of print albums or are there with the musicians'permission.

Major labels make an awful lot of money that the artists never see. Butfor artists who are working with small labels, or releasing their ownwork, it's very, very costly. sometimes people are paying off debts forstudio time, mastering, etc. for many years. That, to me, is where therubber hits the road as far as theft is concerned...

It's a thorny problem, really. I can't (and don't want!) to tell youwhat you should do. But I do know that my "to buy" list is much longerthan ever - also that I'm discovering music I would not have found outabout in any other way.

The laws - and business arrangements - regarding who profits from whatin music sales, etc. are quite complex. I'm not sure that there's aneasy, black or white answer to any of it. But you need to do what youknow is right for you.

(FWIW, most of what I've downloaded in this way never, ever getstransferred to my iPod. I listen to it on my computer and often deleteit after a quick listen.... )

From the way things are going, it looks like the big record companiesare going to have to move toward making their releases widely availableon the internet. Many small labels are doing that already, and theirfees are often quite a bit lower than .99 cents per track.

Also, just wanted to call everyone's attention to the fact that thereare legal download services that are *much* cheaper than iTunes - andin some cases, they allow ownership of what's been purchased. (UnlikeiTunes.) Rhapsody is one of these services. My personal favorite iseMusic.com You might want to check into them, as they're much moreaffordable than many of the better-known legal sites/stores.

** Snuffles, re. what you're saying - you made tapes for your personal use. you weren't going out on the street to sell them.

In the 1980s, the recording industry tried very hard to get laws passedmaking home audiotaping illegal, or (at very least) trying to have hightaxes slapped onto the purchase of tape decks and blank cassettes. Thatdidn't work, and I don't think it should have.

 

[Linz_1987]

I am a christian and I download musicoff the internet all the time. In my opinion it isnt a badthing to do.

But this is interesting...

1) Why can you buy dvd re-writers, blank cd's /dvd's fromshops? It is just encouraging you to copy surely?And people dont seem to care about this.

2) If it was such a bad thing to do this, then whyisntthe law acting more on it? For example thereare so many programs on the internet for downloading free music, so whyhasnt it been taken off the internet yet?

3) If you are 'paying' to surf the internet to do what you like on it,then surely downloading anything is not a problem (we have topayabout £30each month to use our internet/TV/phone)



And just to make you feel better:

My dad's friends son is a policeman - whenever they have house searchesand find copied dvds/cd's they take them back with them to the prisonand share out the pirated dvds! How bad is that

In my opinion it isnt such a bad thing. Like its not like you hurt anyone or anything, really.

Good luck in College!

 

[nermal71]

I look at it from this point ofview. The songs arecopyrighted. That means that the musicians have puttheir time and hard work into writing the song, performing and puttingtogether the dvd. They pay for all ofthat so that they can distribute it and earn money in return.That is their job. Would you want to go to work to find outyou were not going to make your full wages, but just aportion? And while yes you can by writersto copy them it is illegal to copy a cd/dvd and give it to someoneelse. Copying it for your own use to protect youroriginal is legal. And they may not domuch in the UK about it, but here in the US they do go after people forit. There was an older gentleman here (in late70's) who was prosecuted for downloading music illegally for hisgrandson. To me it's not worth it and as aChristian it is wrong. It is theft and one of thecommandments is Thou shall not steal. Stealing iswrong and yes many do it, but it does not make itright. That's the hard part of being aChristian doing what is right even though you really don't wantto.

 

[pamnock]

nermal71 wrote:

That's the hard part of being aChristian doing what is right even though you really don't wantto.

That's called "character", a trait that isn't limited to just Christians



Pam

 

[ec]

One of the good things about *legal* (and free!)downloading is that there is a lot available - many, many artists maketracks (even entire live shows) available via their web sites/MySpacepages/etc. This doesn't cut down on album sales - it actuallyencourages it, for the most part.

Copyright is a very complicated subject (one that I know little about)- and it's even more confusing now, due to the Digital Millennium Act,which covers publication and airplay over the internet. Technically,*any place* where live music is played has to pay fees to coverlicesensing and copyright (clubs, concert halls, etc.). This is nottrue of churches, synagogues (etc.), partly because they havenon-profit status, also because (in many cases) many of the piecesperformed are in the public domain.

Copyright protection in the US lasts for 75 years. But in Europe (theEU, anyway) it's only 50 years. There are lots of reissue CDs that areperfectly legal in Europe that are illegal here: music that is now inthe public domain. That includes most of Elvis's early records, forexample.

So if you download music illegally, you're *not* infringing oncopyright - but you are doing a number of other things that may (or maynot) be legally (and morally) questionable. If you download an entireCD, make copies and go selling them on the streets, you *definitely*are doing something illegal. (If the music is covered by copyright -and other - laws.)

I'm not trying to confuse anyone, just to say that there are many, manyissues that more or less find a focal point in file-sharing anddownloading (legal and illegal). It's worth looking into - in terms ofwhat musicians need to know - in order to get a better understanding ofwhat all goes into it. (But still very confusing!)

For me, one of the bottom lines is knowing that it's extremely hard tomake any kind of living via music alone - most musicians have to haveday jobs, to pay the bills and put food on the table. Those folks oftengo into debt recording and issuing their own CDs. Music is somethingmost people do for love, not money - the overpaid entertainers thatfolks have mentioned probably represent about 1% of all workingmusicians, in terms of income and publicity.

At any rate, something to chew on....

 

[pamnock]

I got my son an MP3 player forChristmas. I don't know anything about MP3's, so we spentlast night researching reasonably priced download options. Ifound a site that had download site reviewshttp://www.musicsitereviews.com/andwe checked out their top rated pick MusicETC for $25 for an entire yearof unlimited downloads (I gave him the subscription as a gift also).

Perhaps your mother would consider also giving you the $25 subscription or splitting it with you.

I think it's worth the piece of mind to know that you are doing theright thing without having to spend a large amount of money to do it



Happy Holidays!

Pam

 

[MyBoyHarper]

Pam, I went to the site and it looks great! So,it's basically like Itunes, except cheaper? All of the songs are LEGAL,with persmission to download? I was trying to find a clear-cut answerto that on the site, because at first I thought it was similar to asearch engine like Limewire.

 

[ec]

You could also try www.emusic.com and Rhapsody. Both are legal.

 

[Haley]

I checked out that musicetc and it looks great.However, I dont think its technically "legal" downloading of music. Itsconfusing, but from what I read, it looks like its the same as kazaaand limewire, except it doesnt permit uploading of music. The site thatreviewed it said that it made it safer (from prosecution) for membersbecause so far they have only prosecuted people who uploaded music, notdownloaded.

Its confusing, but I dont think some of these sites are technically legal, even though they charge for membership/download.

Just my .02.

 

[TinysMom]

About MusicEtc.com ~

Yes, I just joined and I think I'm going to get my money back. Manysongs that I wanted to download came up with a message saying, "Wedon't have a license for this. If you click the box you are statingthat you have the license to download this" or something like that......

It definitely is not what I thought I'd be getting...

Peg

 

[pamnock]

Haley wrote:

Ichecked out that musicetc and it looks great. However, I dont think itstechnically "legal" downloading of music. Its confusing, but from whatI read, it looks like its the same as kazaa and limewire, except itdoesnt permit uploading of music. The site that reviewed it said thatit made it safer (from prosecution) for members because so far theyhave only prosecuted people who uploaded music, not downloaded.

Its confusing, but I dont think some of these sites are technically legal, even though they charge for membership/download.

Just my .02.

I also think that it'svery confusing. I tried tofind more info - one site states that as long as you are paying asubscription fee, it's legal - another stated that this is notnecessarily so.

I was unable to find any definitive information on exactly what is legal to download and what is not.


I certainly understand your struggle of want to enjoy your gift andwanting to do the right thing - but not being able to get the answersto your questions.

I had signed my son up for MusicEtc. last night. From Peg'sexperience with MusicEtc, it appears that the site is misleading andmay not actually be licensed to legally distribute music.

What a headache! We did research and tried to do the rightthing. I thought this was going to be simple. :disgust:


Pam

 

[TinysMom]

Pam,

I think you did the right thing by researching....and I thought I understood everything based on what I'd read.

Then I tried to download some Chris Rice & Steve Greenmusic...and the soundtrack from Pirates of the Caribbean 2....and keptcoming up with this message about the license. I did have an option ofchecking "Yes I have the license" and having it automatically say thatto every song so that the message wouldn't pop up - but that didn'tfeel right to me.

If you go to this link for emusic:http://www.emusic.com/broderbund you can get 50 freedownloads instead of 25 for trying their service. I'm going to do thatand maybe subscribe for a month or two. I'm not 100% sure how theywork...but it feels more legal to me....then again - folks areuploading music so for all I know I'm downloading pirated music?

Most of what I download is soundtracks...to tv shows and movies (I listen to them as I feed the bunnies).

Peg

 

[pamnock]

Peg, that site looks really good!

It seems to be a good sign when you pay a fee per song (theyadvertise some for 33 cents after the trialperiod). The critical issue is whether or not theartists are getting paid for their songs, and this is not made clear onmany of the sites, even those claiming to be legal (like MusicEtc).

Pam