Rebirth of the Phoenix from Ashes

[Ilovemyrabbit]

Aww, I wish things had gone better. Still, I hope you get the help you need. I'll be watching for updates.

 

[holtzchick]

Alright! It just so happens that someone from the rescue lives close to me and they`re stopping by tomorrow night! Keeping positive for this one!

Yes Lisa, you`re right they`re terrifying to watch and mine have been close to one before :<

 

[Chrisdoc]

Michelle, I´m sure that they will give you some great tips and you´ll feel better. As I said, you have to be positive for it to work as I think we transmit our feelings to them. I´ll be watching to see what they say.

 

[holtzchick]

Okay, of course the night that the lady from the rescue was supposed to come, there was a HUGE snowstorm that prevented that BUT nonetheless, she came the next day and had great advice for me!! I knew that having someone see it first hand would help me a large deal!

First off, she said their cages were much too large for them to be effective for bonding. I actually followed her advice and cut the cages down to half the size and adding more shared space lengthwise. Then she said that instead of having a space, I could just do 2-3 layers of NIC cubes overlapping by 1.4 inch that way, they can touch whiskers and lay next to each other and not get their teeth through.

I followed her advice and the first night, Hippogryff lunged at Phoenix because she was biting the bars but the next day, they were laying together Today they are so close! I love it!! I think I`m going to keep it this way until March before I date but man this is a much better set up, they are already more tolerant of each other.

Not only is it better for them but it`s also better for me! I have a real living room now, It`s much more clean and they both seem to enjoy this more. The lack of space in the cage is making Hippogryff come out more frequently for playtime so thats great.

Anyways, here are promised and LONG overdue pictures

Oh and I also thought I would mention that I removed the grates from their litter boxes. The lady said that even for the amount of time that they are on the grates, it could still be hurting them and honest to god it`s much easier to clean them out.

 

[agnesthelion]

Omg I'm so glad you got great advice! And it does seem like a no brainer. Isn't it funny how when you see thing laid out like that its baffling how you never thougbt of it yourself? But anyway, this way it does force them to see each other more often with the increased space lengthwise. They can't really get away as much now.
I have to say that I think the time and effort you are putting into this bond is commendable. Truthfully, I'm a bit ashamed to admit, but I might have given up by now! Haha. I guess I can't say for sure because you get so attached it's hard for me to imagine parting with Archie, but I just wanted to give you a pat on the back. You are truly giving this your all!!!
I just loved seeing the recent pictures of the two. Is it just me or is Phoenix a bit "furrier"? I just love her coloring still. What a gal.
Anyway you know I'll be following every update. I was glad to see your blog pop up on the side

 

[whitelop]

They look much more comfortable with each other now! Wow, what a difference it seems to have made. I never would have thought to make their enclosures smaller. I learned something else new today!

They are so pretty. Is Phoenix molting? Her fur looks a little...cactusy. haha. I learned with Ellie's litter box that she would not use a box with grates on it. I took the grate off and she uses the litter box like a champ now! They are a lot easier to clean with no grates too, just dump or scoop and you're done! LOL.

So you're putting off their dating until March? You're going to let them get to know each other a bit better with this new cage set up and then introduce them? I'm glad that woman could come and help you out a bit! It sounds like you have a more fresh and positive outlook on this whole thing.

 

[holtzchick]

Omg I'm so glad you got great advice! And it does seem like a no brainer. Isn't it funny how when you see thing laid out like that its baffling how you never thougbt of it yourself? But anyway, this way it does force them to see each other more often with the increased space lengthwise. They can't really get away as much now.
I have to say that I think the time and effort you are putting into this bond is commendable. Truthfully, I'm a bit ashamed to admit, but I might have given up by now! Haha. I guess I can't say for sure because you get so attached it's hard for me to imagine parting with Archie, but I just wanted to give you a pat on the back. You are truly giving this your all!!!
I just loved seeing the recent pictures of the two. Is it just me or is Phoenix a bit "furrier"? I just love her coloring still. What a gal.
Anyway you know I'll be following every update. I was glad to see your blog pop up on the side

LOL, YES, I am baffled as to how something so simple made me SO frustrated!!! And no, you`re not crazy, Phoenix is definitely furrier and she`s been molting for the past month! I pull fur from her every day and still it is nuts, the lady from the rescue says she`s got a lot of lop in her and that lops tend to have bad molts. lucky me!

Thanks so much for checking in

 

[holtzchick]

They look much more comfortable with each other now! Wow, what a difference it seems to have made. I never would have thought to make their enclosures smaller. I learned something else new today!

They are so pretty. Is Phoenix molting? Her fur looks a little...cactusy. haha. I learned with Ellie's litter box that she would not use a box with grates on it. I took the grate off and she uses the litter box like a champ now! They are a lot easier to clean with no grates too, just dump or scoop and you're done! LOL.

So you're putting off their dating until March? You're going to let them get to know each other a bit better with this new cage set up and then introduce them? I'm glad that woman could come and help you out a bit! It sounds like you have a more fresh and positive outlook on this whole thing.

Yeah I completely agree with the litter boxes being easier to clean!!!! It`s nuts, now I just need to make a nice hay rack of some sort that`s not super small though I`m not opposed to just tossing some fresh hay on top of the box.

I do want to put their dating off until march just because I want to have them switch toys and litter boxes before hand, I mean not necessarily we will see how things go. I have such a more positive outlook since now them bonding actually feels a little more realistic and their reactions are completely normal to each other!

Phoenix IS molting a lot!!! I can`t get her to stop, the daily brushing doesn`t help. This morning I clipped her nails and I plucked some fur off her butt and left it on the toilet, then I brought Hippogryff into the bathroom to clip his nails and when I showed him the fur, I assure him there were no bunnies harmed in there It just looked like I skinned her or something thats how much fur there was!

Thank you as well for checking into this blog. I haven`t exactly been consistent but I am working close to 60 hours a week now!!! Insane, but you`ve got to do what you got to do, which means I can be more generous to my buns

 

[Chrisdoc]

Michelle, it´s great to see you back on here and good to see the two of them getting on better, I love the pics of them sitting back to back as though they´re purposely ignoring each other haha. And the one with them lying together is so good, they look so comfy together.

It is good getting another perspective and it is also true that sometimes we never see the wood for the trees and the cage set up is so much better now. I think you´re right to go slowly and give them lots of time, I´m sure that we´ll be seeing them together eventually.

OMG her fur is so lush and thick, it looks really soft but a real pain, I bet at the moment. I know how you feel as Bandy loses fur daily and it just gets everywhere. Compared to him, I hardly notice with the other two.

Mine are still not perfect but we´ve had a couple of dates and a few time outs together and the first one to misbehave gets put back in the sin bin so they are learning now and seem to be tolerating each other much better so I´m hopeful that we´re getting back to where we were. However, as with you, I´m not rushing things as I want to make sure that this time it stays that way.

 

[holtzchick]

Omg!!!!! It is SO much better to see how this set up is working for them!!!! They got into a little tiff a few days ago about hippo and his personal boundaries and I think it's helping them work out their dominance issue because now it seems like Phoenix is actually getting attached to him she will seek hm out when she is out of her cage and is learning not to pull his fur through the bars anymore. When he gets upset he will simply sleep in his tent or away from her so she is learning what he will and will not tolerate and vice versa.... Today I watched phoenix go to pull his fur through the bars and then she stopped and instead just laid down next to him with her ears back completely relaxed even though her cage is open and she has the freedom to come out and hop around! I love them and I'm so happy it's becoming a positive thing! I am going to wait until march 15th to start dating them and hopefully it stays positive until then! This is like a 180 degree turn around from before!!!

On other news there is a pet store closing near me so they were having crazy sales. I ended up buying the buns deer antlers to see how they would like them and I also bought matching bowls but one pink and one blue and I also bought them matching harnesses. They're not the h style harnesses they're actually just the step in harnesses that they put their front paws through and they only cost me $2 each!! They seem to like them just fine and move around with ease. Hers is obviously pink and his is all black I'm going to get them name tags made too so if I decide to take them somewhere in the summer they can wear them.

I also have decided to slowly start clicker training them. Over the past few days every time I got to give them a treat I click the clicker first so they learn to associate the clicking with treats when they realize that's what the click means then I will start training them to do tricks...

What can I say, Hippogryff has bonded so much with me yesterday i bent over and he just ran over to me and laid beside me for 15 minutes while I pet him. He near darn just about fell asleep!! He is such a darling. He also now allows me to touch his toys and other belongings in his cage without grunting or attacking me I love him..... Oh god my bunnies make me melt!!!

 

[Chrisdoc]

Michelle what great news and good to see that things are so much more positive now. Sounds as those things have changed for the good and that they are now starting to get attached to each other and making positive responses now instead of negative. And you sound so much happier that you´re now actually looking forward to the bonding. I´m sure the cage change you made was a major factor in this.

I´ve bought one harness ages ago but only tried it a couple of times and they hated it but suppose i ought to get it back out and try again.

Let us know how the clicker training goes, I love it when bunnies learn these things so quickly, well they are such smart little devils that sometimes it amazes me what they get up to.

I caught one naughty bunny on the dining room table tonight helping himself to banana, I was terrified as I came in cos I knew he´d bolt and jump and the drop is about 75cm. No sweat, he´s such a character. He got up there a second time when I was in the kitchen getting their nightly salad ready.

So yes, they are just capable of anything. I feel the same about mine, they just creep in there and take over.

The pet antlers...can´t figure those out, you´ll have to explain. Wish some of the pet stores over here would have a sale´, I´m waiting till I go back to the Uk some time, I´m sure I´d come back with a suitcase full of stuff.

 

[holtzchick]

Oh michelle what a great post! Made me smile through reading it as I can feel your positivity about things jump off the page!!
The new setup really must have changed things, that or Phoenix is "giving up" and accepts Hippo as her bud. Lol.
I'm glad to hear Hippo has bonded better with you. I still struggle in that area with Archie. But then I wonder if I'm to blame unknowingly, I'm so attached to Agnes and her to me so I tend to gravitate towards her and I don't even realize it!
Awesome pet store closing deals. Tell me about the deer antlers. I haven't heard of these for bun toys. I'm assuming they like to chew on them?

Thank you I feel like I'm just jumping for joy lol!!

The fact that you're not bonding as much with Archie would make sense that it's because of your favoritism of agnes. I felt bad for Phoenix because of the way bonding was going and I allowed her more out time and more pets and such but now I make sure to treat them equally (not that you're not doing that lol) and I've simply realized that one has pros and cons that the other one doesn't.

Deer antlers Are mostly for dogs but they do make smaller ones for rabbits. They're naturally shed and cut and super strong they're also great for adding extra calcium into the diet and are very resistant to bitng and naming

 

[holtzchick]

Michelle what great news and good to see that things are so much more positive now. Sounds as those things have changed for the good and that they are now starting to get attached to each other and making positive responses now instead of negative. And you sound so much happier that you´re now actually looking forward to the bonding. I´m sure the cage change you made was a major factor in this.

I´ve bought one harness ages ago but only tried it a couple of times and they hated it but suppose i ought to get it back out and try again.

Let us know how the clicker training goes, I love it when bunnies learn these things so quickly, well they are such smart little devils that sometimes it amazes me what they get up to.

I caught one naughty bunny on the dining room table tonight helping himself to banana, I was terrified as I came in cos I knew he´d bolt and jump and the drop is about 75cm. No sweat, he´s such a character. He got up there a second time when I was in the kitchen getting their nightly salad ready.

So yes, they are just capable of anything. I feel the same about mine, they just creep in there and take over.

The pet antlers...can´t figure those out, you´ll have to explain. Wish some of the pet stores over here would have a sale´, I´m waiting till I go back to the Uk some time, I´m sure I´d come back with a suitcase full of stuff.

It never ceases to amaze me where bunnies can go if they focus enough energy on it. I have seen both of mine clear a playpen without even touching the top of it with their hind legs lol!! Most off the time I think they're just too lazy !!

Check out my reply About the deer antlers to Lisa as I'm too lazy to type it out again on my iPad and my laptop isn't working bc some bunnies decided the charger would work MUCH better with some chewing reinforcement LOL

They're actually not crazy at all about the antlers I'm thinking of smearing them in applesauce to get them to chew on them bc I know hipster loves to destroy toys lol.

 

[holtzchick]

So far so good!! I've been switching their enclosures nightly and even though Hippogryff will not always lay with Phoenix and sometimes lay in his tent instead I figure a little progress is better than none at all. For example they're laying together right now, hipster is sprawled across the bars of the cage and phoenix is turned with her butt to him but at least their butts are touching and they're relaxing together lol.

I actually watched her pull some of his fur out yesterday while he was grooming himself. I don't know if he didn't notice or just didn't care... Maybe they're sorting their dominance issues out now... That would be so amazing. I'm so attached to Hippogryff now that I'm determined to get their bond to work no matter what!!!

 

[Chrisdoc]

Michelle, it´s such good news and the fact that they´re together without been together and ignoring each other can only be good. I think you´d done absolutely the right thing giving them all the time they need to sort out their differences.

I was laughing last night as he was up on the chair again just having another look and I shouted his name and off he shot. He´s the one I have to keep my eye on all the time but I love it when he comes on the sofa and sniffs at the computer and licks my hand and lets me (sometimes) stroke him. He is sparing with his shows of affection but when he does, it makes me feel so good as he´s such a lovely little fellow and I´m mad about him.

Those antlers sound interesting...haven´t seen anything like that here must have a look on the internet.

I had mine out together again last night for about 45 minutes and they were OK, I didn´t want to force things so I put one away as usual. I do feel though that they´re getting better as, quite often, they will sit next to each other on oppposite sides of the cage and just groom with their backs to each other and now there´s no nose bumping through the cage. So, I also am feeling better about mine but will still keep it pretty low key as I don´t want to spoil things. It does make you feel good though when things are looking up.

 

[whitelop]

I'm glad they're sorting it out without actually being together, it sounds like there is a good chance of this working out well!
I'm also so happy that you're so positive about it!

 

[holtzchick]

Okay so I'm in a super rush to Get to the gym but I thought I'd mention that I found a store near me that will order in 50 lbs of oxbow hay and 50 lbs of the pellets too.... That makes me happy because my two are eating me out of house and home lol I might be exaggerating with the pellets though

 

[Ilovemyrabbit]

Lol, Ash eats and eats too , too bad no stores near me don't sell 50 pounds of rabbit pellets, and hay !

I'm glad to hear your two are doing better with the bonding!

Good Luck!

 

[holtzchick]

Lol, Ash eats and eats too , too bad no stores near me don't sell 50 pounds of rabbit pellets, and hay !

I'm glad to hear your two are doing better with the bonding!

Good Luck!

If any of the stores are privately owned even the larger chain ones, they can special order it from oxbow for you if they ask because it's not an item that they stock on the shelves I mean come on how many people buy 50lbs of hay at a pet shop. Not many lol

 

[Chrisdoc]

Wish I could get stuff in bulk, would be so much cheaper as well. Mine are small but do eat loads, Yeah, 50lbs of hay is a lot of hay lol.