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PixieStixxxx wrote:
Pipp!
Are we going to be building one for the Uvic rabbits?
We need to find land, yards, barns or whatever and apply for a permit (or .... :devil ), that's the immediate goal.


sas :dancingorig:
 
My parents own three farms in the Philippines. I should talk them into buying land here :nasty:
 
It would be utopia if we could find just an acre which we could use to house the UVic bunnies. Land here is very pricey and hard to find. All of us want them to stay here but it seems there is no room at the 2 island sanctuaries and most of the bunnies will be going to Texas. Actually once we have them across the Canada/US border they could go to any good sanctuary in the USA.
 
Those are lovely areas:)

Rabbits are so happy outside.

My sanctuary has 30 hutches and sheds each with their own enclosure. They aren't as big as those shown, but range from 6ft square up to 20ft square. The smallest hutches are 6ft by 2ft by 2ft, but most are bigger.

Each one houses from 1-4 rabbits. I had a group of 12 once but they went to war and had to be split into smaller groups. I dread to think of the damage groups of ferals must do to each other! I have had succesful groups of 5-8 rabbits in the past but they have gradually died over the years and the ones here now don't seem to want to co-operate with larger groupings:( In fact I have several who won't even accept one partner:( And the first thing the different groups do when I let them out in the morning is go and patrol the boundaries and argue with the neighbours, charging up and down the fences with their tails in the air. Rabbits love nothing better than a good arguement!

I shut all the rabbits in the hutches or sheds at night to keep them safe from foxes. Last winter when we had so much snow, there were fox tracks in and around the hutches regularly so I know they are here often. I could hear a vixen barking last night, and often I hear the rabbits thumping at night when either a fox or a cat goes prowling, so putting them away at night is essential. A fox can get over any fence that a cat could get over. All the hutches and sheds have good solid bolts and secure wire and covers for the winter. They get let out first thing and put away just before dark. They all go to bed happily as that is when they are fed. They see me coming with the pellet bucket and fling themselves into the hutches, often with a flick of their heels:) I never pick them up after they go in, so they trust me. Health checks are done and meds given in the morning before they are let out. I have quite a few half wild or extremely nervous or downright vicious rabbits so this system works well.
 
I posted about this in another thread but I wanted to ask since it concerns this directly...

How are they keeping predators out? Ok the fence is full so I am sure it keeps dogs out if they cannot dig under but what about predators attacking from the top like cats?

Justasking because I want to make Maybelle free range and it would look sort of like this and my main concern is keeping cats out so I was curious to know how they have solved that :)
 
I went ahead and emailed Quan for more information about how it is actually set up. I only now saw Pipp's reply about the foxes and coyotes. I would very much like to convert my yard and let the bunnies out in a more natural and spaciousenvironment. If they can manage it then surely there must be a way.

Meant to add, this may be concerning my own rabbits at the present but in the future I would adopt rabbits hard to rehomefrom shelters if this could work. Last week or so, 5000 rabbits were killed in a fire at a shelter. I only recently found a proper list of current shelters and there are definitely a LOT of rabbits. The country is overun with them, both wild and domestic. They are culling.
 
I agree about having a safe run for the rabbits and a covering is needed. My 3 baby bunnies were born free and although each is in a 2x4 cage it bothers me. I have an outdoor pen and just bought an exercise pen but we are in a rainy season now and they are not using it for now.
A fire! How devastating! I just wired my bunny barn for a light and an electrical outlet. I have done wiring in the past and this would be a very simple operation but I elected to hire a pro just because of my fear of fire in there.
Culling seems to be the big word these days. Here if its not the rabbits its the deer, the beavers, Canada Geese and bull frogs.
 
Hi. These enclosures are beautiful.

I am confused, though. I thought the HRS was all about bringing bunnies inside -- they say on their website that bunnies living outside in hutches don't live as long due to the elements and predators getting/harassing them. Even if the space is bigger, isn't that still a big threat? What about raccoon roundworms and other illness/parasites? Do the buns live outside, or come in for the night? What about poisonous plants/mushrooms growing in the enclosure?

I am just really curious about the safety of outside living. I have been thinking of building an outdoor "playland" for mine to use on nice days...It really seems like they'd enjoy it.
 
I share your concerns. I have 3 rabbits in a hutch inside a building. It is sheltered from the elements and predators. I have outdoor pens for them to run around in but only if I am present. I also have a male who lives indoors (free roaming) but will go outdoors in his pen when the weather is nice enough. None of my rabbits are ever outdoors at night.
 
Moro Ferret wrote:
I am confused, though. I thought the HRS was all about bringing bunnies inside -- they say on their website that bunnies living outside in hutches don't live as long due to the elements and predators getting/harassing them. Even if the space is bigger, isn't that still a big threat? What about raccoon roundworms and other illness/parasites? Do the buns live outside, or come in for the night? What about poisonous plants/mushrooms growing in the enclosure?
This isn't the HRS, which is all about bringing bunnies inside where humans can enjoy them and keep them safe. Unfortunately, the HRS can only house a small percentage of the homeless rabbits in the world and they rarely deal with feral or meat rabbits. This option is a step up from loose in the park or life in a tiny cage or hutch while awaiting the butcher.

The UVic bunnies had some major parasite and nutrition issues. Both can be solved with care. The young bunnies were picked off constantly by hawks, but rabbits in the Rabbitats won't be breeding. The 20% first year survival rate in the wild mostly applies to the babies.

Outdoor savvy rabbits -- or more the case, rabbits that get to choose their food and not just eat what they're given or have access to rarely to be choosy -- will not eat poisonous plants. (They also have a high tolerance to plants considered poisonous). This shouldn't be much of an issue, but I would still watch for and remove mushrooms and bad vegetation, good call on that one.

And raccoon roundworm is a very serious concern and is taken into consideration when designing the rabbitats. Raccoons are pretty specific in their toilet areas, they are easily identified if you know what to look for, and she need to be avoided or very very thoroughly cleaned.

As many 'safe' rabbits are tortured as house pets by well meaning caregivers. The two things that matter the most to the rabbits instinctively are overhead cover (if not underground burrows) and traction. Wire cages with no 'panic room' boxes or at least a cover over part of the tops and sides is as unnatural to a bunny as a human living in a glass house. And the linoleum or corroplast flooring is like a human living on a skating rink. Of course they adapt to an extent (as would we), but it goes against every natural instinct the poor rabbit has. So there's no one-size-fits-all 'house bunnies are better off than yard bunnies'.

Rabbits locked in hutches (a particular HRS no-no) are more prone to predator attacks than rabbits loose in the yard and will instinctively feel far more threatened. They're caged meat, attracting raccoons, weasels, etc.. A yard rabbit that has been allowed to build its natural escape routes or has routes built for them is far less likely to succumb to adrenaline poisoning (which rabbits are prone to). In all cases a secure, solid fence is essential to block line of sight predators as is lots of ground cover for attacks from the air.

Its also not much different from saying you can't send your kid to school because he might get hit by a bus. Lock him in his bedroom, he'll be perfectly safe there. Suicidal, but safe. And you can't compare rabbits to infants. They're a lot smarter that people seem to realize, and they possess some impressive survival skills. Rabbits are not designed by nature to be safe. Everything eats rabbits.

That said, Rabbitats aren't really the best option for house rabbits (especially the many who are taken away from their families too young and grow up very dependent). But in many cases, rabbits are better off 95% safe in a well-designed predator-savvy yard than 100% dead in an overcrowded shelter, meat breeder facility or a loose in a park that's nothing but a coyote smörgåsbord. It's all about choices and options.

The 'Rabbitats' model will be happy with 95% safe. The ones pictured are historically 99.4% safe. (Two dwarfs for some reason didn't hide from a Barred Owl when there was an owl infestation in Maine, those have been the only casualties in six years).

But people wanting to let their house rabbits out in the yard can certainly make the area as safe as the house. You just have to know what you're doing.

PS: I vividly remember when I first joined this board's predecessor, the loss of three rabbits to predators that week. One board favorite was killed by a neighborhood dog that rushed past the rabbit owner as she was opening the door to her house -- the dog had seen the rabbit in the window. And another lost her bunny to a neighbor's dog who rushed in and knocked over its wire run while the owner was supervising the play time. Yet another person had a very secure hutch that thwarted a raccoon attack, but the rabbit died from fear. There is no such thing as 100% safe.

sas :bunnydance:
 
Moro Ferret wrote:
Hi. These enclosures are beautiful.

I am confused, though. I thought the HRS was all about bringing bunnies inside -- they say on their website that bunnies living outside in hutches don't live as long due to the elements and predators getting/harassing them. Even if the space is bigger, isn't that still a big threat? What about raccoon roundworms and other illness/parasites? Do the buns live outside, or come in for the night? What about poisonous plants/mushrooms growing in the enclosure?

I am just really curious about the safety of outside living. I have been thinking of building an outdoor "playland" for mine to use on nice days...It really seems like they'd enjoy it.
i was thinking the same thing!
 
Hi Pipp. Thanks for the post! It was very educational.

I also was not trying to lump everyone in with the HRS, I just know that bringing bunnies inside is becoming increasingly popular.

Here's a question for you. Some European studies show that ferrets who live outdoors (In colder climates of course) and are exposed to natural light cycles and weather actually tend to live longer and have less tendency to develop adrenal cancer and other complications. Keep in mind that Europe also has different food and breeding practices that also lead to healthier ferts. My question is, do you think it is, in some respects, healthier to keep a rabbit outdoors in a Rabbitatt?
 
Similar ideas are being put forth in rabbits. Their issue seems to be vitamin D and calcium metabolism. The sun provides the vitamin D that can keep their bodies doing normal things with calcium, not creating huge bladder stones or sludge.
 
tonyshuman wrote:
Similar ideas are being put forth in rabbits. Their issue seems to be vitamin D and calcium metabolism. The sun provides the vitamin D that can keep their bodies doing normal things with calcium, not creating huge bladder stones or sludge.
oh no that makes me feel so guilty
 
Don't feel bad--our bunnies are much better off with us! Vit D supplements by having a good quality pellet and maybe using full spectrum light bulbs can help.
 
Pipp,

'But people wanting to let their house rabbits out in the yard can certainly make the area as safe as the house. You just have to know what you're doing.'

Would you and other savvy people make a post (or point me to one if it exists) on
that topic? Specifically, what do we need to look for and how much is enough, etc. I was hoping to build tunnels and things to give Maybelle the yard. I had about given up on it until I saw your post. I was pleasantly surprised by your stance on the matter to be honest. If you have a chance, could you elaborate on the matter? It would make a world of difference to my bunnies :rose:

 
Nela wrote:
Pipp,

'But people wanting to let their house rabbits out in the yard can certainly make the area as safe as the house. You just have to know what you're doing.'

Would you and other savvy people make a post (or point me to one if it exists) on
that topic? Specifically, what do we need to look for and how much is enough, etc. I was hoping to build tunnels and things to give Maybelle the yard. I had about given up on it until I saw your post. I was pleasantly surprised by your stance on the matter to be honest. If you have a chance, could you elaborate on the matter? It would make a world of difference to my bunnies :rose:
An aviary is the most secure option. Depending on your out door space you can sometimes use 1 or 2 house walls to form some of the sides. Here are some examples: http://www.therabbithouse.com/gallery/rabbit-aviary.asp

The main points are you need walls either solid or covered in small enough mesh to stop predators i.e 1"x1/2". Something to stop them digging in/out so either paving floor or mesh buried in the soil/grass, and a roof, again mesh for this but you can also cover with something solid.

Tam
 
I have a question about the fencing for a rabbitat. Do you need to bury a few inches of it in the ground in case they dig out? I have been keeping all of my spayed/neutered rescues in a large homemade run since the weather finally warmed up enough for them to be comfortable. I move the run every day so they will have fresh grass, clover etc. and I have to put bricks down around the outside of the wire or one of my does will dig out.
 

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