Rabbit babies

[samijayne]

I was adviced from another forum to post here. One of my bunnies got with a male bunny about a month ago. They've not been together since, and boy has been neutered Just so you know =d



But Female gave birth to 4 babies yesterday. The things that worry me are,

We never see her with the babies, shes always in the main side of the hutch.

Two of the babies are pink and one is slightly grey/purple with pinkish hint to the baby. The fourth baby is completely grey purple and doesn't move around a lot.

One of the babies looks like he's fitting as he wiggles so much, two are a lot less active, and the fourth is least active, I thought he was dead when I looked at him. But he does move.

Two babies have half an ear missing, but doesn't look like infection has started and they do look clean at the moment. apart from dry blood on the ends.

My vet says shes attacked teh babies, and we should remove them. That the grey/purple one is likely to die, and its my choice if i want to hand rear him or not.



I am really not sure what to do, I dont want to touch them, as mum gets very grumpy. We've only gone near the hutch with a towel we've rubbed over mum. But I've seen pictures of people on here holding the babies, so I am confussed.

Several vets told me not to touch them, unless i remove them from mum. As mum will kill them.



Any advice will be great thank you xxx Plus if i've missed anything out, please ask and i'll keep checking to answer any.

 

[Flashy]

I'm glad you found your way over here This post will probably get moved to the Rabbitry forum, just so you know.

It's normal for her to be away from her buns. They generally don't go near them because they don't want to attract attention to their kits, so they often only go into feed which can be for 5 mins once or twice a day.

I am just copying and pasting the advice on here that I have alreayd put (just so that people can see, and if necessary, correct).

You do need to check and clean the nest because if there is blood there that will attract flies, and also you want to make sure all babies are being fed and are alive and have no complications.

I would suggest taking mum out for that and giving her some treats, then after touching her, quickly check the nest. If you think mum might be problematical about you touching them, you can then put a drop of vanilla above her nose so that she can smell only that and by the time that wears off the babies will smell ok again.

You need to check them daily to make sure there are no problems. Once they have been fed (which will be 24-36 hours after birth) they will look like they swallowed ping pong balls. If this doesn't happen then you may need to intervene.

I have always handled any I had since the first or second day and never had any problems. Its very mythical that the buns will reject their buns and try to kill them if handled, that happens if they are unsettled for whatever reason, so you can limit that by making a big fuss of her and making sure its not a stressful event for her.

No, the vet does not know best. Rabbits have pigmented skin, so most likely the purpley gray one is going to be a dark colour, like maybe a blue, the lighter one may be a lilac, the pink ones may be white. Don't try and hand raise them unless the mum is definitely not feeding and you definitely can't encourage her.

If they have half an ear missing then it implies she has over groomed them. You will need to watch for signs of infection in those wounds.

I would suggest putting them in a nest box (something the mum can hop in but the kits can't get out of).

Have they been fed?

It might be you can take the next box away from mum and return it just for supervised feeds. They shouldn't be fed anything other than mothers milk unless there is absolutely no chance of her giving them milk.

Unless she proves to be an unsafe mother or you think she is a danger to the kits then I would be tempted to let her prove herself and see if she can do it.

If she won't feed them then keep them in their nest box and move them in and out of your house and her hutch, and when you want them fed (maybe twice, three times a day, depending on how fat their bellies get) stand mum in the box and give her treats to keep her still and to relax and the babies will feed that way.

If that doesn't work, then get mum out and hold each one to her one by one in whatever position they need to be in to get a proper feed. You will also need to remember to help them wee and poo if the mum won't do it. Something damp can be used for this.

But really, you need to intervene as minimally as possible, but enough to make sure all involved are ok.

Maybe it might be worth bringing them into the warm for a while to ensure they are warmed up, or maybe on the underside of the hutch, stick a hot water bottle. I've not heard of a bunny go that colour, so if he is less active, I would presume the problem is not due to his colour.

A mother can turn on their kits at any time, but the chances lessen as they get older, plus they can get out the way when older, so are not as helpless. It normally happens if a kit is ill (like has been mentioned) or the mum feels threatened in some way.

The forum I linked to earlier on has a lot of breeders on and it might be worth posting on there because they might be able to give you some more specialised help.

Oh, and in answer to your question on the other forum, plenty of people would find a bunny missing part of an ear cute. I know I certainly would, and its not like he needs any special care. I once came across a bun with no ears, and he was healthy and fine

 

[Becca]

*BUMP* So it will be moved to the rabbitry

Good Luck With Your Babies...

 

[BlueGiants]

First of all, even if the mother gets grumpy with you, you certainly can handle the babies. You need to make sure they are getting fed and kept warm. Even at this point, all babies are differnt, some are content to sleep and are "lazy", some are active and always looking for the next meal or warm spot.

I'd encourage you to put the babies in a nest box with whatever nesting materials (fur, hay,straw, etc.) the momma assembled around them. A shoe box will work fine to keep them from crawling off and getting cold or missing a feeding. I'd put a layer of wood shavings or clean dry hay under them and lay the whole nest on top. I'd then put the box in the same place she had her nest.

As Flashy said, don't go by color. The babies skin will be pigmented and have a fine layer of fur over it that will color the baby.

(Again, as Flashy said) The missing ears just means the momma got a little overzealous cleaning them as she birthed them. New moms often do this. It does NOT mean she attacked them.

Don't get into hand rearing unless it's the last measure. Very difficult and very few survive to weaning age. (Just being honest).

Check the babies once a day. Bring momma a treat (apple, parsley or greens?) and put it on one side of the cage. Check the babies individually (I remove them to a basket or take out the nestbox if necessary). They should look like their little tummies are full and round (some say like they swallowed a ping pong ball). they should be clean and dry. If you see that, Momma is doing a good job. Put them back and chack them again tomorrow.

The mother will not abandon her babies because of your smell. A mothers instinct to care for her babies is stronger than any smell you put on them. And after a few days of getting treats, she will look forward to your visits and baby checks.

 

[clevername]

It doesn't sound like she's attacked them. If she had there'd be more chaos; kits out of the nest and probably missing more than just an ear. Honestly it sounds like she over-cleaned them. Common, though unfortunate.

Get in there and take a look at the babies. It is a complete myth the rabbits will abandon their nest if there babies smell like people. Check there bellies, if they look like little ping-pong balls she's probably fed them recently. Rabbits typically only feed once or twice a day and they do not rest with their babies like cats or dogs, so the way you've been seeing her is very normal.

So none of the stuff you've said seems particularly out of the usual. However you should be checking on the kits progress everyday. If something does go wrong it'll happen very quickly.

 

[Flashy]

How are you and your bunny and herbabies today?

 

[gentle giants]

If I repeat any advice you have already gotten, I'm sorry-jsut wanted to make sure your worries are addressed.

samijayne wrote:

We never see her with the babies, shes always in the main side of the hutch.
That's fine. Since rabbits are a prey animal, they only return to the nest when it's time to feed the babies, which they only do about once or twice a day. You probably won't see her do it, either, they tend to like privacy for caring for the babies.
Two of the babies are pink and one is slightly grey/purple with pinkish hint to the baby. The fourth baby is completely grey purple and doesn't move around a lot.

As I believe Blue Giants said, that has to do with what color the fur will be when it comes in. If you shave a dark colored dog or cat, their skin will be a similar color to the fur over it.
Two babies have half an ear missing, but doesn't look like infection has started and they do look clean at the moment. apart from dry blood on the ends.

My vet says shes attacked teh babies, and we should remove them. That the grey/purple one is likely to die, and its my choice if i want to hand rear him or not.

The ears missing are because she was cleaning them and overdid it. If she had attacked the babies, they would already be dead. DO NOT try to hand feed with a bottle and formula, it is extremly difficult to hand feed a baby rabbit without it aspirating the milk, which is fatal.


I am really not sure what to do, I dont want to touch them, as mum gets very grumpy. We've only gone near the hutch with a towel we've rubbed over mum. But I've seen pictures of people on here holding the babies, so I am confussed.

Several vets told me not to touch them, unless i remove them from mum. As mum will kill them.

Absolutly not true. She may get grumpy with you, that isjust because it's her instinct to protect them. She will not kill them because you touched them, most times even a wild rabbit won't go that far.

Any advice will be great thank you xxx Plus if i've missed anything out, please ask and i'll keep checking to answer any.

I'm not sure where you are located, but we have listings of rabbit-savvy vets here in our Library. I would not trust any of the ones that told you these things, they obviously don't have a clue about rabbits. Rabbits are very different to treat medically than cats or dogs, and a lot of vets don't know how to handle them. Good luck with your new babies and the momma, if you have any other questions feel free to ask.

 

[samijayne]

I have been giving mum a lot more food and cabage an apples carrots than normal. Also During the night she'd taken all her hay and sawdust and removed it from the main part of the hutch. So it just had poo everywhere.

So i've put more in today which she seemed happy with. We have put a box in there 2 days before birth. But we were disgusing today, about how she can get in an out of the box? Does she take the babies out? or does she get in the box? We've cut it so she can get in and out easily, and teh babies can't get out.



I'm super excited about teh whole thing. But we're all worried. I'll try an check them tomorrow, and see how there doing. Maybe take pictures too =D

 

[Flashy]

Sounds like she is trying to improve the nest, so make sure she has lots of hay.

Have you checked them at all to see if they have ping pong ball tummies?

The nest box needs to have an open top. That means mum can climb in and feed them, but they can't wriggle out. Bunnies don't move their babies like other animals do, they leave them where they are, so if you see any outside the nest you need to move them back.

Is the nest all clean now? No blood?

 

[FallingStar]

Any updates?

 

[samijayne]

Hey This is mum




There were 5 babies we found. Only 3 are alive when we checked today. We've made a new nest, as the other had blood on the sides. We put her fur around where we put the babies.

This is the old nest, but the new one is the same but cleaner



All babies have tails bitten of, and each have half an ear missing.

One is quiet big.



One is a bit smaller






The last is the smallest,



And we are worried about him. None of them seemed to have pingpong bellies. But were alive and warm, not sure if that counts for anything. We got mum to sit still, and put the smallest one underneath formin or two. She was happy with ustouching and holding them. While she wondered round the living room.

They kind of wigglereally weirdly, not sure if thats normal.Not sure how to decribe it, other than it looks like its throwing itself around. They make a lot of noise too, is that normal?

Sadly the one I was worried about when I posted died, or we're guessing thats teh one that died. We didn't know about the 5th baby. But both babies are removed now.

Any advice? Should we take them all out every day and try to make mum sit still? Is there any ways to make her sit still longer?or just keep hoping she feeds them?

 

[Flashy]

Well done for checking them, it's great you did because the two that died would have rotted in there which would probably have killed the surviving three, so good for you I'm sorry about the two you lost though.

If you want to encourage mum to feed, it would probably be worth trying to do it twice a day.

They need an open lidded box for the nest and so if you have the kits in the nest, just stand mum over the top and keep her calm and relaxed with treats and a fuss, and the kits should come up and feed. You can check before and after to see if there is a difference between how full their bellies are.

Rabbits generally feed once a day and it will only take 5 or so mins to do, so can often go unnoticed, so it might just be that these were due a feed, or were fed a while ago. Maybe keep check on the buns periodically throughout the day to see if their bellies get any bigger. Does often feed early in the morning (around dawn) or late at night after dusk, so those are the times most likely she will feed. It is very possible she fed them last night and now they need more food. It might also be her milk has not yet come in fully.

Rabbits can survive fine without a tail and both ears, so they should be ok as long as the wounds don't get infected. How do the wounds look? The nest will have to be kept really clean to avoid infection.

Noises are very normal It seems to often appear that the vocal ones are boys, but obviously I'm sure there will be loud girls out there too.

As for the wriggling, it's normal for them to squirm. They don't have control of their bodies. If you are concerned, if there anyway you can take a video with your camera or phone or anything and maybe post it on here? That might enable us to give you some more reassurance

You're doing a great job

 

[BlueGiants]

I'm sorry that you lost 2. But it was really great that you found them and got them out of the nest.

As Flashy said, check the babies once a day. If the babies start to look wrinkly and shriveled, or really skinny, put mom with her belly on top of the babies. Gently hold her in place for 4-5 minutes. You can give her treats and little ear rubs, anything to keep her calm and still. Then take another look at the babies. Their little bellies should look full. You can do this twice a day if it doesn't look like she's feeding them voluntarily.

If this is her first litter, it's to be expected that the mom doesn't know exactly what to do. The wriggling is normal. They can not see and right now, they "cast about" looking for smells to lead them to moms nipples. They might have been hungry when you checked them. And yes, they can be very vocal.

 

[samijayne]

They were born on Tuesday. But when we tried getting the babies to feed of mum. They would try one for a bit then move, and they didn't get any fatter. Nor seem to get anything of her.

The really small one seems really weak, so we have started it on Goats milk this evening, which he did drink some. But the other two rabbits seem to have a problem eating of mum too. She refuses to stand over the nest, but we got her to sit down while we made a fus of her and let the babies get to a side nipple but they didn't get anything that we're aware of.

any ideas?

 

[Flashy]

They do nead the teats and move from one to the other, so thats normal, but I'm wondering if maybe she doesn't have any milk? Can you feel if her nipples are swollen?

 

[samijayne]

We think they were swollen. We didn't want to give them goats milk as we were told they wouldn't have a good chance. But the really tiny one made us worried. So we've given him a shringe full, which he did drink some of it, before bathing in it.

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

Try holding the mom and then putting the babies underneath her, and have them latch on to her to drink milk. You wont notice them getting fatter right away. They should eat for about 5 or 6 minutes about, and that should be enough to give them enough until next feeding.

While you're syringe feeding them, make sure not to overdo it. Feeding them for good 5 or 6 minutes, or until their bellies look full, is good. You should then take a Q-tip dipped in lukewarm water and rub it on their lower belly to stimulate them to go potty

Bunnies tails aren't very long anyways, so maybe you just think they were bitten off? They're probably only about half an inch (in smaller breeds) to 2 inches (in larger breeds).

 

[gentle giants]

Bottle/syringe feeding isnot a good idea. If you don't think that the smallest one is getting enough while the mama is in the box, you can turn her on her back, and lay the baby on her belly by himself to nurse. But be sure to keep a hand on the baby, in case mama wiggles. Goat's milk won't give the baby what it needs, only mama's milk is really healthy for them.

 

[samijayne]

We have tried to get mum to sit there an feed them, but she gets very grumpy and kicks an runs off. We think she is feeding two of them, and the third is just so weak

When checked on today, the smallest one was cold. and away from the other two. So its now inside, and we are feeding it goats milk. We are going to try in the morning with the mum laying on her back and the baby laying on her tummy. But the baby is a lot warmer now, and has started making noises, and seems to wiggle a bit more. I think =D

We left the other two with mum, as they do look a lot bigger an healthier than the ltitle one

We are worried the little one will die, should we be adding any vitimins or anything to the babys goats milk? at the moment the babies in a tiny box in the airing cobard where its nice an warm. How often should we feed it? we have a little shring which we've been feeding it with. He does drink some.

He is very cute

 

[samijayne]

The smallest one died today, :dunno::cry4:

the other two seem ok, when I peak in the nest they wiggle a lot. And do seem to be feeding from mum, as they are a lot bigger.