Question about crossing breeds

[Gunslinger]

So we've had bunnies for about 3 months. 2 strictly for pets and 2 that became pets. The Holland Lop and the Polish both appear to be pregnant. If this is right, the only buck I have is a California. That also means that the kids had the rabbits together when I specifically told them never!

So my questions is; will this hurt my smaller bunnies being pregnant with offspring of a much larger breed?

Thanks,

Tom

 

[Becca]

It could end up with stuck kits, thats all I know as I'm not a breeder!! But someone experienced should come along soon.

ETA: This also should be in the rabbitry section! But don't worry a mod will move it for you

 

[mouse_chalk]

I moved it for you

My limited knowledge tells me that yes it could potentially be a very painful/difficult birth, but hopefully someone more experienced than I will come along to help you soon!

 

[polly]

Are you definately sure they are pregnant? if so have you got any idea how far along they are?

Your girls are awfully small for a cali buck as the other say the chance of stuck kits is much higher. I am sure your polish are not far off teh size of a netherland which is not good.

If you are sure they are pregnant and not to far along I would think an emergency spay for the both of them would probably be the best bet.

 

[bunnybunbunb]

I would worry with the Polish but not so much the Holland Lop. Then again age matters. If they are under 12 months or have had babies before there is not a real worry. For the most part babies will not grow inside mom to big for them to birth but this being said if they only have 1-2 babies in them they will get much bigger than a 4-8 baby litter. Seeing as Cali. do not have huge heads(I'm talking like broad) there should not be a huge problem if there is more than 2 babies, the does are under 12 months or they have had babies before.

It is rare that does die from stuck kits, it is very painful but from what I have saw they almost always get them out. Just keep a close eye on them. Rabbits like to birth around 4-8 am for the most part so just keep check on them.

 

[JadeIcing]

I have a polish and have held a cali. I also have a holland lop. I would be worried. I dont know how it works. I know Cali's are prone to big litters but not sure if it is because of the mom or dad.

 

[Dublinperky]

What doyou mean that they seem to be pregnant? I was just wondering because you usually can't see that they are pregnant. Are your does housed with the buck? If so they should be removed immediatlly. If they aren't have they ever been in contact with eachother. If not I might check on the gender of your "does" it is likely thatone could not be a girl....And yes it could cause problems with having the bigger buck. I breed calis and I know hollands and they are very different sizes. I hope that all goes well and they are not pregnant at all! Hope this helped!

Aly!

 

[GoinBackToCali]

This is the second time I have answered a question like this today.

When you say appear to be pregnant, have you palpated them? Some rabbits just look fat, it's getting to be cool weather and many of mine have already turned sluggish and put on their winter coats, making them appear thicker.

We don't cross breed Cali's.. period.. not even the NZW's.. so I had to ask for help in this one..

Rabbit's can die from stuck kits.. so that was an inaccurate statement. I have had a Cali doe die from one 2 years ago, and my BF had to remove one of my recent litters stuck kits in January..and the doe was going downhill fast.

It's kinda like removing a bowling ball stuck in a toilet.. just doesn't fit, and not likely to dislodge on its own.. the size differential between a cali and your girls is massive.

To quote directly the advice given to someone else by my BF..

"

I'd take her in for the spay, chances are she didn't take, but on the off chance she did, her life is at risk.
It is much like a tubal pregnancy in humans, the smallest size increase in the fetus could rupture the fallopian tube, effectively sending the mother to surgery where she may never have children again due to the blown tube, except in a rabbit it could kill her.
In a week or so however, you should be able to see the peas in the pod, so if you must wait, wait till then.But no longer"


So in answer to your question.. yes.. it CAN hurt/kill your girls.. but really.. have them X-Rayed to be sure before you go emergency spaying them..


Best of luck..
Z and the Tree

 

[JadeIcing]

Thanks Zin. Was just about to contact you. Figured you knowing Calis...

 

[Bramblerose]

Most definitely can be a problem, get them checked as suggested. I knew someone who allowed their NZW buck to breed a ND doe, the doe had one very large kit that she shredded trying to get it out of her body. These folks had a habit of doing such things, so I no longer talk to them, its just too stressful for me. I hope your girls aren't bred.

 

[bunnybunbunb]

Did I say it never happened? No, thank you I did not. I said it is rare and it is. I have had onlyone doe get a stuck kit however I have many breeder friends and on the rare occasion of stuck kits none of them have died. Yes, sometimes they do die but it is rare for them to. That is whybreedersget the twig like kits.

 

[GoinBackToCali]

Bunnybunbunb-

I did not disrespect you, nor get a tone, I simply said *that was an inaccurate statement*

I could understand if I had something disrespectful like *she's stupid and doesn't know what shes talking about*.. then the snippy attitude you just displayed would be warranted..

Technically you said.."It is rare that does die from stuck kits, it is very painful but from what I have saw they almost always get them out. Just keep a close eye on them. Rabbits like to birth around 4-8 am for the most part so just keep check on them."

That statement alone does not advise to get the rabbit to a vet, just *check on them*.. check on them to do what? See if they died yet? See if they are in distress? By then it may be to late for a vet..

I advise action now.. not your lackadaisical attitude toward it..your statements may incur a false sense of security on a beloved pet.

My info came from my finacee.. a vet.. and your what exactly?

If you can't get in on a subject without getting snippy and snide, then you ought not be playin' on the net, mate..

Take care love,

Z

 

[bunnybunbunb]

One comment and I shouldnot be onthe net? I think most people online have taken things the wrong way and acted the wrong way about it.

Everyone is saying basicly jump now and spay them. Spaying rabbits is very costly and not everyone can pay the $300 to have a single rabbit spayed. You breed so let me ask when a rabbit is pregnant and due what do you do? You do not know the out come, you check the rabbit and hope all is fine. You do not run aroundacting like a chicken with it's head cut off.You should be calm about something like this and weigh everything, not do the first thing your told. I agree she should have someone knowledgeable in rabbit check them but spaying should not be jumped at first thing when they may not be pregnant.

 

[Maureen Las]

Everything said here passionately is based on knowledge, experience and love of rabbits.
if there is a disagreement we can do so with respect for each other ..think of it as an exchange of ideas without an exchange of negative emotions.
We're here for the rabbits first !

 

[swanlake]

just to put in my :twocents, and i know NOTHING about breeding or any of that. i dunno i wouldn't wanna see my baby go through the pain of a stuck kit, espically if i didn't intend to get her pregnant in the first place.

from what i can gather, gunslinger was never planning to breed these two girls, and even said they were strictly pets. That would also make me beleive that he doesn't want to have a pregnancy, let alone a difficult pregnacy.

 

[polly]

As a netherland dwarf breeder yes I have had stuck kits and as Bunnybunbunb said you can check on them however ( and please correst me if I am wrong here) the people she knows and herself having stuck kits is more than likely to be of the same breed. Not different breeds and certainly not with those kind of size differences. To say keep an eye on things is perhaps not teh best advice to someone who obviously doesnt breed and this hasn't happened on purpose.

When we get a stuck kit then it can take a while, even 24 hours to come out. It is stressful on the doe stressful on the humans that the doe belongs to. And can result in toxic shock if anything ruptures which will kill the doe. even when they are the same breed that are mated it is not a good situation to be in and my husband has had to assist a doe with a stuck kit more than once.

I have to admit I was hoping Zin would post on here seeing as she has Calis she is one of the best on this forum to judge the difference in size and how it could affect these breeds of rabbits. All I can say is that I have seen cali's over here and know the size of a polish and a holland lop (the same size as our mini lops.) and i would not even consider the pregnancy being viable. IF the does are pregnant.

In this situation an emergency spay really is the kindest to both does. Though first things first really if you are not experienced at palpating your does to feel for litters then take them to the vet.

Another thing if this wasn't intentional breeding and the people involved aren't breeders then its much harder for them to deal with and that has to be taken into consideration.

 

[TinysMom]

bunnybunbunb wrote:

Everyone is saying basicly jump now and spay them. Spaying rabbits is very costly and not everyone can pay the $300 to have a single rabbit spayed. You breed so let me ask when a rabbit is pregnant and due what do you do? You do not know the out come, you check the rabbit and hope all is fine. You do not run aroundacting like a chicken with it's head cut off.You should be calm about something like this and weigh everything, not do the first thing your told. I agree she should have someone knowledgeable in rabbit check them but spaying should not be jumped at first thing when they may not be pregnant.

I'm not normally one who will jump in and recommend a spay if a rabbit gets pregnant- by the same size/breed of rabbit. A lot of it depends upon how far along the doe is and how risky it would be to her health.

In this case however - I do recommend seeing a vet for at least an Xray to see if the does are pregnant and also emergency spays if they are pregnant.

Here is why....with a same size buck/doe pregnancy - there may be a lot of issues but many times you can keep an eye on the doe and take them in for an emergency spay/ cesearean (sp?) if something goes wrong.

But in this case - the simple development of the kits may cause the doe to lose her life - before she even gets close to delivering them.

As anyone who reads my blog may know - I had a lionhead girl get in with one of the Californian bucks sometime late Saturday night/early Sunday morning. So I'm the one who asked Zin for help on this.

We're going to wait until next week and get her Xrayed early in the week and if she's pregnant - we're going to do a spay. But we want to give her a week so we can see the babies on the Xray to know if she is pregnant. (We don't think she is for some specific reasons - like her privates were not swollen and there did not appear to be signs of actual mating).

However, I have some questions for the original poster who I hope returns to read this...

Why do you think your does are pregnant? What signs are you seeing that make you think they're pregnant?

I think it is important that we find out what the poster is seeing to make him think the does are pregnant.

 

[Gunslinger]

Quick update to my dilemma. My wife took the bunnies to our vet. Yes, they are pregnant. He X-rayed them and says everything is going normally, but suggests a c-section, then spay3 days before their due date. We're used to this, as we raise Boston Terriers and c-sections are common with them and about the same price as the bunnies (not cheap).

Thanks for all the input. Hope I didn't cause too big a problem.

 

[aurora369]

It sounds like you have a pretty good vet.

I have seen situations requiring an emergancy spay for stuck kits before. The vet told me that a c-section would not be possible, and that in order to save the mother, the babies wouldn't make it. So hopefully your vet has some previouse experience with this and I would also prepare myself for the possible loss of the babies.

If you are planning on hand rearing the babies, I would start researching now. Hand rearing baby bunniesis very difficult with a very low success rate. Best results normally come from finding a foster mom. If possible, ask around to shelters and rescues to see if they have any moms that might be able to foster your babies until they can be weaned.

Good on you for taking the does to the vets. It sounds like you and your vet have a solid plan to move forward with.

Please keep us informed on the progress of your girls. If you would like, you can start a blog in our bunny blogs section about all your bunnies. That way you can share pictures and stories with the rest of our members.

Also, we're glad you came and asked your question. It's better to ask and get many opinions then be left guessing in the dark on your own. We encourage our members to ask questions whenever they have any questions. Please feel free to ask as many questions as you can think of and we will do our best to help you.

--Dawn

 

[polly]

Thats great news. It sounds like you have a pretty switched on vet which always helps. As aurora said there is a chance the kits may not make it but personally I always care more about my does anyway.

Keep us updated :biggrin2:And we welcome discussion on here so don't woryr about it as long as you are happy with the outcome for your rabbits thats all that matters.

If you do get live kits don't worry we had something similar with an emergency spay and a live kit it took her a few days to get the hang of it but she took the kit on and raised it. the baby fed while she was still out of it from teh anaesthetic then after that we gave her a bit of veg on an evening and put the baby under her and let it feed.