Problems again

[Ivory]

Erik is having hairball problems again. I swear, this rabbit has the weirdest GI problems I possibly know of.

They aren't as bad as last time (i.e. huge impaction, almost completely obstructed, not eating, not drinking, borderline needing surgery) but it's still annoying. I've cut back on the dry stuff (pellets and hay) and increased the amounts of greens. He pooped a lot of hairy poops this morning, some bracelets, and some misshapen poos, but they're bigger and fuller than the ones over the last few days.

I'm going to see if the Pedialyte/flavor in water increases his drinking capacities but he is a picky little rabbit and somehow I don't think he'll enjoy it. I'm going to give them some apple in a little bit.

Of course, Ivory has gas problems, but she's a pig when it comes to greens, but Erik doesn't eat unless she's there, so I have to distract her while trying to get him to eat.... and she is molting, and he grooms her, so that's yet more hair he's ingesting.

I've taken their cardboard out of their playpen, and remove their wood chew toys (more dry stuff- I think it may be the cardboard that's causing the problem.)

I feel so bad. They love their cardboard houses....

 

[Marietta]

Hi there!

Firstly, taking away the hay is not correct. To the contrary, he should eat as much hay as possible, because hay (a) hydrates the poops, (b) helps the intestinal contractions, therefore, the GI tract gets moving again by eating hay.

Hydration is also the key here. He should drink plenty of water, Pedialyte is a good idea.

If they're molting, keep brushing the loose hair off, help out pulling also with your hands, the more hair you remove, the less gets ingested and causes more trouble to the GI tract.

If they eat their cardboard (or whatever else they eat), you should remove it. Although, GI stasis, "hairballs", as is incorrectly called, is a dietary ailment, i.e. it shows that probably something in their diet should be changed (probablyunlimited hay, restricted amount of high quality pellets, restricted veggies, absolutely no treats, yogurt drops, candies, pellet mixes with dried fruit, nuts, peas, corn, etc.).

If I missed something, other member will follow to advise you in the wonderful way they always do.

Keep us posted on Erik's progress.

Marietta

 

[Bo B Bunny]

Ivory's dad is her veterinarian and she's a vet student.

I would keep the hay with him tho. It will help things move i think.

Have you tried giving him some pineapple juice? and what about papaya? I get a bag of that from Wild Oats - all natural and dried for like $6 and it lasts them a year!

Bo had issues and I would give him a chunk of that each day the size of a pineapple tidbit and it kept him regular.

Also, Oxbow has papaya tablets.

I can't imagine those things would hurt at all - and they might just help.

 

[AngelnSnuffy]

Oh, and for greens, Dandelion greens are supposed to be great.

Get better soon Erik!

 

[Ivory]

Erik has hairballs. Or hair "lumps" rather, and they're not made primarily out of hair. There is no other way to put it. His diet is lovely- he sheds like crazy, and for some reason has a slow-moving GI tract. He grooms a lot.

Because of his slower GI tract, which by some weird genetic abnormality he has, dry things accumulate more quickly in his stomach (i.e. hair, cardboard, hay, pellets, etc.). Because fluids move through a static gut fairly quickly, as opposed to the slower-moving dry stuff, you get that "hairball". "Hairball", in my book, means a clump-up of dry accumulation that happens to have too much hair because of recent shedding/molting, which he just so happens to have because despite grooming him regularly, he has a lot of hair. I don't know why. He just does.

This being said, I haven't taken hay out of his diet- I just have not been giving the constant supply I've been giving. They always have hay.

And then again, the problem isn't his intestines. Well, it is, but not immediately so. It's the accumulation at the opening at base of his stomach- which hay, unfortunately, being dry, will not help to move very much.

It's kind of "stasis", well, it is "stasis", but it's not stasis in the more conventional understanding of the word. It's a little more challenging to deal with than in the intestines- you can't give a motility drug to help move things along, because the situation doesn't call for it. It's just this dry lump, for lack of a better word.

I hope that's clarified exactly what his problem is, and why I've been encouraging him to eat moist greens more than dry hay. If I could get some fresh timothy grass I'd love to get my hands on it but I don't think it's growing now. We have clover though....


*sigh* This is the problem with Erik. Too much dry stuff and hair, he has problems. Too much greens, and he'll get gassy and bloated and if that happens (because it's in the stomach, and can't pass, etc), it's basically surgery time...

This all being said, he is pooping better since he's been getting these greens.

Again, I'm also kind of worried about the caloric content of these darn things. He just got back to a better weight....I don't want him to gain it back....

;sadkjfhaldkfsdlfkjha;HSDK;FHasdfghjkl;'

 

[Bo B Bunny]

Do you find that each bunny has to have a certain (and sometimes very specific) combo of feed?

It seems to be me each one has a different digestive system. Tony likes his pellets, does well on them, hay is a last resort and greens are a treat.

Clover can and will eat most anything that is not processed and/or sweet. She does like banana. She loves pumpkin and does well unless she manages to eat a plastic bag!

Bo will get soft poos if I look at him with a slightly wilted piece of cilantro. :?

 

[Marietta]

Ivory, I feel so stupid giving you advice, since you are a vet student and your dad's a vet also! Hope I didn't offend you in any way, it's just my urge to help.

My Vitto, being a dwarf hotot, is prone to GI tract problems, just like your Erik (what breed is Erik? I thought only dwarf hotots had this genetical problem with their intestines), so I know exactly what you're talking about. In our case, I'm afraid to feed many pellets, as he may develope ileus and then I'm afraid to feed many pellets, because he gets diarrhea... Giving him the proper diet is like stepping on thin ice... He's 2-yro and I had one serious GI stasis incident and one diarrhea issue so far. Two months ago, I followed Haley's point of view (thank you very much, Haley!) and cut down the pellets and the veggies (I was feeding him 1/2 cup of pellets and 4 cups of veggies per day and he weights 1.250 kgr., i.e. he's within his breed weight standard). This change in his diet allowed Vitto to eat much-much more hay and drink a lot more water (there were days that he would barely touch his water in the past. Now he drinks from a crock and also from his bottle, must be a consumption of usually around 60-80 ml. per day). Since the day he started to eat more hay, less veggies, less pellets and drinks more water, I never had any GI or diarrhea issues so far (touch wood...). This is why I emphasized the hay part in my post.

In regard to the term "hairballs" I've read in various vet posts and articles the last couple of years that it is not considered as correct anymore. However, I can only reproduce what they say and not judge it, as I'm not a vet.

Maybe Erik has "megacolon"? If he gets slow, ubnormal contractions in the base of his stomach in the opening where the colon is attached, it could be it? In another forum I'm a member, a vet-member told me some time ago that the megacolon syndrome is rare in rabbits and that we, rabbit owners, overuse this term most of the times. He also told me that the most common ailment is the sensitive intestines syndrome, alike humans.

In regard to calories, veggies are not supposed to be high in calories, are they?

Again, I hope I didn΄t offend you by my intervention, I didn't mean to,
Marietta

 

[Ivory]

Lol, Marietta! You haven't offended me in the least- there is a wealth of information on the internet, and I enjoy hearing different things. Sometimes, though, it's hard to get the point across correctly.

Hay works as a fantasitic "preventative", so to speak. It provides "bulk", to help push the food out of the GI tract, including the stomach. Hence, hay is a great helper in getting his tummy back where it should be.

However, I find that when I'm "in the hotseat" with Erik's tummy, it's better to cut back on the dry and encourage the wet, and if he wants the hay, too, then give that, too. I'd like him to eat as much hay as possible- but he really needs the greens first. He has definitely been eating his hay- and I don't want anyone to think that I've taken it away, because I haven't. I've just been steering him more towards the greens, and letting him eat the hay in between feedings of greens.

Vegetables are low in calories, yes, but even so, a lot of vegetables can be a bit too much. I'm mostly feeding regular greens (spring mix), carrot greens, and clover. Clover is more fattening. I've also given him some alfalfa sprouts, which again, are a little higher in calories than I'd like to give him. He's been in the yard and enjoying our grass. He likes rye quite a lot.

The way that cats get hairballs and the way that rabbits get "hairballs" are somewhat similar, but at the same time, not so much. The conventional definition of the word "hairball" doesn't necessarily apply. As I said when I mean, "hairball", I mean an accumulation of food, hair, and other particles he could have possibly ingested within the last few days. I should probably refer to it as the "gastrolith", but people generally understand "hairball" better.

That person is right- "megacolon" is often overused in describing terms in rabbits. "Stasis" and "ileus" are also often kind of misused, but kind of not. There are varying degrees of stasis and ileus (Ileus meaning a lack of peristalses, whereas stasis generally implyings the lack of liquids moving through the gut, quite related, somewhat different. Enteritis, implying inflammation, etc.)

Anyway I'm going off on a tangent. Erik is doing better. Hopefully he will remain in the state he is in.

I had to knock Ivory out to clean out her scent glands, and while I was at it I knocked her out and brushed her really well. Hopefully this will help with Erik's grooming of her.

I also wanted to clarify for you- the stomach isn't attached to the colon, it is attached to the small intestine. It opens into the duodenum, or the first part of the small intestine. Later on in the GI tract, there is a place called the ileocolic valve. The ileocolic valve is a blind opening that goes into either the cecum or the large intestine, or the colon.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

Marietta, sometimes even the docs can benefit from things.... IE - our doc had heard that tagamet taken daily for a couple of weeks might lessen planter warts but there was no real info out there.

We had heard this same thing...... tried it and POOF a huge cluster on my daughter's foot was gone!

He was keeping track of it and others who were going to try it - so they could write an article on it.

Cool huh?

 

[Marietta]

Ivory and Bo B Bunny, thanks for your kind notes. Well, dear Ivory, look at it this way: how many times in your professional life will a non-vet try to advise you? I guess, zip to none to nul. So, my post was, at least, amusing!

Joking aside, Ivory, is there, indeed, a condition like what the other vet told me, sensitive intestines, in regard to rabbits? Have you seen it in your studies? In the affirmative, is there any precautional measure one can take, diet-wise or otherwise, to prevent such a condition and keep the GI tract in good function?

Cheers, guys!
Marietta

 

[Ivory]

Marietta wrote:

Ivory and Bo B Bunny, thanks for your kind notes. Well, dear Ivory, look at it this way: how many times in your professional life will a non-vet try to advise you? I guess, zip to none to nul. So, my post was, at least, amusing!

Joking aside, Ivory, is there, indeed, a condition like what the other vet told me, sensitive intestines, in regard to rabbits? Have you seen it in your studies? In the affirmative, is there any precautional measure one can take, diet-wise or otherwise, to prevent such a condition and keep the GI tract in good function?

Cheers, guys!
Marietta

Actually...you would be absolutely amazed at the number of times people will try and advise you on how to medicate their pets.

I've got a few years to go before I'm an actual veterinarian, but I'll get back to you then. Seriously, I appreciate the input when it's so intelligently thought-out and put.

That being said, yes, there are different conditions that rabbits will have regarding their disgestive systems. But it's in the nature of a rabbit's intestines to be delicate. Oftentimes there aren't "syndromes" so much as "conditions", as in, a rabbit is in stasis, but it isn't caused by a defect in their system.

That being said, like any other animal, rabbits can be born with certain abnormalities, however, because they're rabbits (namely delicate prey animals) they tend to die young or not even develop fully in the womb when they have said intestinal problems.

Erik, for whatever reason, has some kind of problem with the opening at the base of his stomach. There have been many times we've had problems with him, and it's always the same thing- that accumulation at the opening. Lots of moisture gets out a lot of hairy poos. Sometimes I wonder if everything really ever completely gets out. I wonder how long a time's accumulation he has in there, sometimes.

The preventative measures, we all know, actually. Lots of fiber, lots of hay, fresh water, clean habitats, a high-quality pellet feed, but not too much. A good diet is key to a rabbit's health.

Sometimes, you just get a weird one.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

How's Erik doing today?

 

[Ivory]

He seems to be doing okay, I may bring him in for a X-ray just in case, to satisfy my paranoia. He's pooping and eating and drinking.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

You're going to make him radioactive LOL!

 

[Ivory]

YOU MEAN HE ISN'T ALREADY!?

*gasp*

 

[Bo B Bunny]