Predicament......what to do?

[jcottonl02]

I have my two dwarf lop bunnies- Benji and Pippin, both neutered males.

As some of you know I have been trying to bond them for a while, and it hasn't been working- they will lick and groom one another, flop down next to each other and lie down squashed next to each other, and then at other times they will have huge fights.

Even though they can get along fine sometimes, well, most of the time, I can't completely trust them to be together without supervision, hence why they cannot live together. They live in separate hutches, and go in a partitioned run, but come inside with me for "supervised" playtimes.

I desperately wanted their bonding to work, but after they had one huge fight and one mistook my intervening arm as the other rabbit, I got bitten (which, incidentally has left a wonderful scar on my arm :S) I haven't really had the courage to try to have another bonding session with them. I have just had short meetings where I am there and on my toes ready to separate them at the first sign of aggression.

It is Benji who initiates the fighting- Pippin is quite docile around other rabbits.

So this led me to think........okay.....Benji does not want to be with him. They both have lovely, big, two storey hutches, that could accomodate two.
Originally we were going to join these two hutches to make one giant hutch, but I don't think they are going to get along (anyone with any help, or who thinks it could work, please tell me! )

I don't want either of them to be alone. Although they are with me a lot of the time, every day, they are still alone at night, and while I am at school (unless it is a nice day when they would be in the partitioned run together), I wonder whether they need the company of another rabbit?

I have to stop myself buying or adopted cute rabbits whenever I see them, so it's not as if I would be getting an "object" that I didn't want, just so they could have a friend. No...I have to force myself to just "walk on by"!

So what do I do?:

-Carry on trying to bond them....as it may work, and does work lots of the time with other people

-Adopt a spayed, female rabbit to bond with Pippin, as Benji does not want company

-Actually Benny does want company but not from a male, so in this case I would have to get two does, which I don't want to do. Four would be too many for me to pay lots of attention to every day, as trying to bring four in at once, or bringing them in separately they would only get an hour at most with me.



Benny is the friendlier- well, more social- one to me- he loves coming inside and doesn't stop demanding grooms and licking me, and loves me coming out to see him- he runs to the bars and licks me through them, andwhen I open the hutch to pick him up, he just sits and waits for me to do so.

Pippin, however, even though such a gentle sweetie, runs away from me when I come out to see him, (sometimes he doesn't, but most of the time), and when I do manage to get him and bring him inside, he sometimes seems a little skittish, but most of the time will happily sit on me and lick me constantly, just like Benji does. So I'm confused about his behaviour. He doesn't want to come out at all, but when he is out he quite happily grooms me constantly.

Which one seems like they need the company of another rabbit?
Neither? Both? One? The other?

Any advice would be so much appreciated.

Thanks a lot

Jen x

 

[monklover]

How long have you been trying to bond them?

After Buddy and Roxie had gotten into tons of fights, I thought they wouldn't bond. One day they just did. They did great inside but terrible out. One day they just decided to become friends.

I'm not sure if you should keep bonding them or get a friend for them. I think it is up to you and what you think is best. If they do alright while you supervise them, I think there is hope that they might just bond.

If you are going to keep try and bonding have you tried switching their cages? This technique was EXTREMELY effective for my two. You should make it so that one cage is not Benji's but both Benji and Pippin's cage. For example at night you could switch their cages and in the morning you could switch them back again.

I think it really depends if you think they could bond or if you should get seperate friends for them.

Good luck.

Megan

 

[jcottonl02]

Thanks for the reply

That makes me feel better- becuase that is exactly what is going on with mine- inside is when they groom one another etc. and outside in the run they fight almost immediately. Every time. I could never quite understand why that was.

I already do switch their hutches but it is not every day- it is about once every few weeks, and I scrub the whole hutch down clean when I do it. So maybe not do that and switch them every day without cleaning it?

I was bonding them every day or every other day for about a month, for about an hour in the run, where I would squirt Benji with a squirtgun thing every time he attacked Pippin. He just ignored this completely so I had to intervene myself once, whcih has sort of scared me into bonding them in the run again. Thing is...I had blood running down my arm when one of them bit me, so if they were biting that hard then it wasn't just a tiff- it was proper fighting.
I then brough them inside together, expecting mahem, and not one fight. Just peace. licking, grooming, snuggling- all of it. Constantly. Once they had a fight, but I think Benji was ticked off then.

Thing is..they are both males, and urs were male and female.
Although u have given me more hope- maybe I should carry on really trying to bond them. It would make my world if I could join their big hutches together to make one giiiaanntttt palace for them.
Thanks so much.

If anyone else has any other ideas, please let me know.

 

[monklover]

jcottonl02 wrote:

Thanks for the reply

That makes me feel better- becuase that is exactly what is going on with mine- inside is when they groom one another etc. and outside in the run they fight almost immediately. Every time. I could never quite understand why that was.

I already do switch their hutches but it is not every day- it is about once every few weeks, and I scrub the whole hutch down clean when I do it. So maybe not do that and switch them every day without cleaning it?

I was bonding them every day or every other day for about a month, for about an hour in the run, where I would squirt Benji with a squirtgun thing every time he attacked Pippin. He just ignored this completely so I had to intervene myself once, whcih has sort of scared me into bonding them in the run again. Thing is...I had blood running down my arm when one of them bit me, so if they were biting that hard then it wasn't just a tiff- it was proper fighting.
I then brough them inside together, expecting mahem, and not one fight. Just peace. licking, grooming, snuggling- all of it. Constantly. Once they had a fight, but I think Benji was ticked off then.

Thing is..they are both males, and urs were male and female.
Although u have given me more hope- maybe I should carry on really trying to bond them. It would make my world if I could join their big hutches together to make one giiiaanntttt palace for them.
Thanks so much.

If anyone else has any other ideas, please let me know.

I can't tell you how much that sounds like Buddy and Roxie.

I would not clean their cages when you switch them. And maybe switch the cages more often so they get more used to it. The main reason for switching cages is so that they are comfortable with the other's smell.

I found that squirting with water did not do anything for my buns. I can't remember exactly what I used to block eachother but I think I used a dust pan with a handle on it to stop them fighting.

 

[jcottonl02]

Okay....I have just brought them inside together to see whether inside still works......

Not good news

Before they would jsut lick eachother etc. and now Pippin is constantly humping Benji.

Benji licked Pippin for a few minutes on the head, and Pippin wouldn't lick him back.
Then Pippin tried to hump benji's head, and Benji bit and got a mouthful of fluff- Pippin wasn't hurt.

Then I stopped them and as Benji ran past Pippin, Pippin humped him again, adn Benji lunged, so I shove my arm out and he nipped me hard, aiming for Pippin. So they are both separated now.

Arg this is so frustrating! They are in the run together every day with one another. For months. If they can't even be together without bars for two minutes without humping and biting what chance is there??? There has never been humping before......strange ithas just started.

Oh the frustration.

 

[jcottonl02]

You used had to use something to stop them fighting??
Oh good..........so they fought a lot and now they are bonded?

Oh it's so confusing.

Even after my reply above this- what that like urs fighting?


Dustpan and brush to stop them fighting....what a good idea lol!

 

[monklover]

Alright well how long has it been since you have brought them inside? I would not be discouraged about the humping.

Roxie used to hump. Buddy used to bite like what Benji does. Actually Roxie humped Buddy until they were bonded.

Try and not let Pippin hump Benji's head! Benji might bite him then! If Benji doesn't mind being humped, let Pippin hump him for about 15 seconds before taking him off.

Yes my buns used to fight. Mostly outside but once in a while, they would get in a fight inside. When they were outside the first time I put them out on the grass, RIGHT next to their cages, they just kept fighting (kind of looking like a fight where they go into this dustball in cartoons) and chasing eachother.

 

[Mom of Joy and Love]

If you choose to find a bond mate for either or both don't go out and get a bunny. Take them to a rabbit rescue where your bun(s) with have a chance to date and find the right mate. If your bun selects a mate they come home in the same carrier. And they need to be put in an area that your bun has never been in.

We did this and our buns have been bonded since they met. Could be we were lucky but had read so many problems bonding had not looked forward to the process. This was a breeze. Only one small problem when I made the mistake in letting them both out the second day in an area Joy considered her own. Luckily we hadn't built her condo yet so quickly started that, first as an open yard and they were fine.

 

[angoragrl]

Wow, your situation sounds like mine. . . . both males and everything.

I had Henri and Acorn actually living together full time for about two weeks when Acorn decided to bite Henri, HARD, and in verysensitive spots. This was with no provocation whatsoever from Henri, he was just sitting there with his back to Acorn. I seperated them then and have been switching them from one area to the other every day. They have a huge cage and run in the basement and a small area of their own upstairs and run of most of the upstairs. I have been too scared to try to bond them again because the few times they have met since then, they immediately start circling each other. We should be moving to a new house in a few months though so I think I am going to try to bond them again there because it will be truly neutral territory.

Do you have any rooms in your house you could use for bonding that your buns have never been in? You could maybe try the bathroom for short sessions, just to get them used to being back together without anything in between. This would be a smaller area and would allow you to intervene much easier too I would think.

 

[jcottonl02]

Thanks so much for the repies.

Omg that makes me feel so much better and have more hope that other people have basically exactly the same problem as me!!!!!!

Monklover- thanks for the fab advice. Pippin did hump Benji's head and immediately Benji bit- he didn't break the skin or anything becuase I had immedately grabbed Pippin and yanked him off. Benji had a huge mouthful of fluff- which looked quite comical. This is actually what I assume happened to Benji, my poor baby. With his previous owners (who abandoned him, the b******s) he must have been with another rabbit and humped its head, becuase when he was found, he had been bitten in a very sensitive area and had to be immediately neutered. Which is why i am so careful when pippin was humping Benji's head.

Yes mine were like a cartoonish ball of fluff once!!!! And urs are bonded? Yay!

As soon as Pippin humps him I push him off becuase benji does NOT like it at all, and I am worried they will immedaitely fight hugely again if I leave them. So every time I saw him mount I immediately stopped them, and once when I did that, as I was pushing Pippin away Benji tried to nip him and got me- it's left a little bruise but was not bleeding.

Its been about two or three months since I last put them together, if I am completely honest- I had just given up.

Benji was still licking Pippin's head for about 30 seconds last night, even after he was humped, so I am not sure what this means?

Momofjoyandlove- thanks for the advice- I will take this on board and do that. Its a great idea.

Angoragirl- yay! You have EXACTLY the same situation as me! And you are stil trying? Good- has given me hope. Yes I have a good bathroom to do it in- might try that. Will it be any different to any other rooms?

Thanks a lot for your help!

 

[angoragrl]

jcottonl02 wrote:

Angoragirl- yay! You have EXACTLY the same situation as me! And you are stil trying? Good- has given me hope. Yes I have a good bathroom to do it in- might try that. Will it be any different to any other rooms?

Thanks a lot for your help!

Have your buns been allowed in the room before? If not then it should be different because it is more neutral territory for them. . . Beyond that, it will probably just be smaller so you can intervene easier. . . You could always put them in the bathtub for a truely easy to control bonding zone.

 

[monklover]

jcottonl02 wrote:

Monklover- thanks for the fab advice. Pippin did hump Benji's head and immediately Benji bit- he didn't break the skin or anything becuase I had immedately grabbed Pippin and yanked him off. Benji had a huge mouthful of fluff- which looked quite comical. This is actually what I assume happened to Benji, my poor baby. With his previous owners (who abandoned him, the b******s) he must have been with another rabbit and humped its head, becuase when he was found, he had been bitten in a very sensitive area and had to be immediately neutered. Which is why i am so careful when pippin was humping Benji's head.

Yes mine were like a cartoonish ball of fluff once!!!! And urs are bonded? Yay!

As soon as Pippin humps him I push him off becuase benji does NOT like it at all, and I am worried they will immedaitely fight hugely again if I leave them. So every time I saw him mount I immediately stopped them, and once when I did that, as I was pushing Pippin away Benji tried to nip him and got me- it's left a little bruise but was not bleeding.

Its been about two or three months since I last put them together, if I am completely honest- I had just given up.

Benji was still licking Pippin's head for about 30 seconds last night, even after he was humped, so I am not sure what this means?

Yes Buddy and Roxie are bonded. It took 4 1/2 months for them.

Benji has affection for Pippin but he must just not like to be humped. Don't get cofused with humping as a symbol of dislike. All humping means is that Pippin wants to be the dominant bunny.

Megan