BlueCamasRabbitry
Well-Known Member
Alright, thank you. 
I will PM Peg and Naturestee right away.
Emily
I will PM Peg and Naturestee right away.
Emily
Possibly Snuffles?
- Thread starter BlueCamasRabbitry
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BlueCamasRabbitry
Well-Known Member
Update:
The baby is back outside with momma/siblings. She had a little bit of mucus running when we put her out, but I didn't have the cloth to wipe it, although I will be going back out to wipe her nose.
I called a veterinarian to ask them to help me convert the correct dosage of penicillin, since the dosage is 1/10 cc per 5 lbs of rabbit, and she's about 1 lb, or less. The receptionist told me that she would have the doctor call me back...well he was supposed to call about 1 hour ago and still I haven't heard from him.
Does anyone know what the correct dosage would be, then? I can't give her any until tomorrow since that is when I'm getting BeneBac, but I sure would like an answer.
I will give her another dose ofVit C.tomorrow as well... Gave her a water/vit c mixture of about 2 cc's (the whole syringe was full, but she didn't swallow all of that).
I was thinking maybeI should give all of my rabbits some Vit. C. just to boost their immune systems... Is that a good idea?
Emily
The baby is back outside with momma/siblings. She had a little bit of mucus running when we put her out, but I didn't have the cloth to wipe it, although I will be going back out to wipe her nose.
I called a veterinarian to ask them to help me convert the correct dosage of penicillin, since the dosage is 1/10 cc per 5 lbs of rabbit, and she's about 1 lb, or less. The receptionist told me that she would have the doctor call me back...well he was supposed to call about 1 hour ago and still I haven't heard from him.
Does anyone know what the correct dosage would be, then? I can't give her any until tomorrow since that is when I'm getting BeneBac, but I sure would like an answer.
I will give her another dose ofVit C.tomorrow as well... Gave her a water/vit c mixture of about 2 cc's (the whole syringe was full, but she didn't swallow all of that).
I was thinking maybeI should give all of my rabbits some Vit. C. just to boost their immune systems... Is that a good idea?
Emily
BlueCamasRabbitry
Well-Known Member
Think I figured out the dosages for penicillin.
Does this sound correct?
If there's 1/10 cc per 5lbs, than that would mean a dosage of 0.5 cc for a 5 pound rabbit. I did this by dividing 5 by 1/10
So, I then divided 1 by 1/10, and got 0.1 cc for a rabbit that is about 1 pound..., and if she's less, then it would be 0.05, correct? The only thing is... How would I measure that low with a syringe, assuming these dosages were correct?
Emily
Does this sound correct?
If there's 1/10 cc per 5lbs, than that would mean a dosage of 0.5 cc for a 5 pound rabbit. I did this by dividing 5 by 1/10
So, I then divided 1 by 1/10, and got 0.1 cc for a rabbit that is about 1 pound..., and if she's less, then it would be 0.05, correct? The only thing is... How would I measure that low with a syringe, assuming these dosages were correct?
Emily
aurora369
Well-Known Member
What you can do is further dilute the penicillin with some lactated ringer solution so that it will be easier to measure. You can get test tubes with a rubber top for mixing injectable medication. You draw up some penicillin (1 cc for example) and put that in the test tube. Then you draw up some of the lactated ringer solution (1 or 2 cc's) and put that in the test tube.
Then depending on how much you diluted the penicillin, you just draw more of it into the syringe for injection. If you did a 1 to 1 ratio, then you would double the amount. If you did a 1:2 ratio then you would quadruple the amount.
If the dosage is 1/10th of a cc for 5lb, that would be 0.1cc per 5 pounds, which would be 0.02 per 1 pound of rabbit.
You can go to a people pharmacy and see if they have some small syringes for injecting insulin. I have some syringes from the vet that measure by 0.1cc's. So if you diluted the penicillin enough, you could use that to give the injections.
Make sure to mix, by rolling the test tube, very well before injecting. The penicillin will separate from the lactated ringer when it sits for a bit. The reason you want to roll the container is to minimize air bubbles in the solution.
If you can get me the concentration of the penicillin and the weight of the baby, I can calculate the proper dosing as recommended by Medirabbit for you.
http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm
And I'm not sure why my vet likes chloropalm for young rabbits. He's done lots of work with rescues so I think he has had lots of cases of having to treat young rabbits, and most people aren't comfortable giving injections, so he had to find the best oral antibiotic.
Hope that helps you!
-Dawn
Then depending on how much you diluted the penicillin, you just draw more of it into the syringe for injection. If you did a 1 to 1 ratio, then you would double the amount. If you did a 1:2 ratio then you would quadruple the amount.
If the dosage is 1/10th of a cc for 5lb, that would be 0.1cc per 5 pounds, which would be 0.02 per 1 pound of rabbit.
You can go to a people pharmacy and see if they have some small syringes for injecting insulin. I have some syringes from the vet that measure by 0.1cc's. So if you diluted the penicillin enough, you could use that to give the injections.
Make sure to mix, by rolling the test tube, very well before injecting. The penicillin will separate from the lactated ringer when it sits for a bit. The reason you want to roll the container is to minimize air bubbles in the solution.
If you can get me the concentration of the penicillin and the weight of the baby, I can calculate the proper dosing as recommended by Medirabbit for you.
http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm
And I'm not sure why my vet likes chloropalm for young rabbits. He's done lots of work with rescues so I think he has had lots of cases of having to treat young rabbits, and most people aren't comfortable giving injections, so he had to find the best oral antibiotic.
Hope that helps you!
-Dawn
BlueCamasRabbitry
Well-Known Member
Oh wow, wow! Thanks for the information, Dawn!
I don't know the exact weight of the baby - suppose I could pull out my rickety scale and get an average weight on her.
If I had a syringe that measured in 0.01 cc, would I still need to dilute it?
Emily
I don't know the exact weight of the baby - suppose I could pull out my rickety scale and get an average weight on her.
If I had a syringe that measured in 0.01 cc, would I still need to dilute it?
Emily
aurora369
Well-Known Member
It is advised to dilute penicillin as it is quite thick, so diluting makes it much easier to inject. Also, it reduces the sting and reduces the risk of developing a sterile abscess at the injection site.
You need to use a sterile saline meant for intravenous or sub-q injection. You might be able to find it at a feed store or a vet might sell you a bag (should be reasonably priced).
My vet always cuts my penicillin for me.
If you can't get a tube with a rubber stopper, then you can just mix it for each injection. Pull out the amount of fluid for cutting it, and then pull out the amount of penicillin, then take the needle off and pull some air into the syringe. Put your finger over the end and shake it until mixed. Put a new needle on (drawing out of the stoppers dulls the needles I find) and while holding upright, push the stopper up and tap to get the air bubbles out.
-Dawn
You need to use a sterile saline meant for intravenous or sub-q injection. You might be able to find it at a feed store or a vet might sell you a bag (should be reasonably priced).
My vet always cuts my penicillin for me.
If you can't get a tube with a rubber stopper, then you can just mix it for each injection. Pull out the amount of fluid for cutting it, and then pull out the amount of penicillin, then take the needle off and pull some air into the syringe. Put your finger over the end and shake it until mixed. Put a new needle on (drawing out of the stoppers dulls the needles I find) and while holding upright, push the stopper up and tap to get the air bubbles out.
-Dawn
tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
Dawn has given great advice, but I'm pretty sure that dose is a bit low. The usual treatment (same for abscesses as it is for URIs) is 150,000 units (75,000 units penicillin G procaine and 75,000 units penicillin G benzathine) every other day for a bunny of 5lb. Most Bicillin comes in a solution that is 300,000 units/mL, so a 5-lb bunny gets 0.5mL of the drug and 0.5mL of the saline.
http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~jwmoore/bicillin/bicillin.htm
http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~jwmoore/bicillin/bicillin.htm
BlueCamasRabbitry
Well-Known Member
So I could just mix half saline solution with half penicillin, correct?
When I last gave a Sub-Q injection of Penicillin, I didn't mix it with anything and had no problems with abscesses...but I don't want to take any chances, so this time I will in fact do that. I'll call my local feed store (The one that I can ride my bike too...haha) and see if they carry a sterile saline solution, as well as syringes that measure 0.1 cc's.
Okay, so the dosage thing... it's either 0.02 per 1 lb, or 0.1 per 1 lb.... which is correct? Like I said, I still have to get the syringe/needles, so I probably won't dose her until tomorrow - and the Vit. C seems to be doing a good job so far, so I'm giving her another 50-100 mg of that today and we'll see how she looks tomorrow, but by tomorrow I will have all the supplies I need if I still need to give her an antibiotic.
Emily
When I last gave a Sub-Q injection of Penicillin, I didn't mix it with anything and had no problems with abscesses...but I don't want to take any chances, so this time I will in fact do that. I'll call my local feed store (The one that I can ride my bike too...haha) and see if they carry a sterile saline solution, as well as syringes that measure 0.1 cc's.
Okay, so the dosage thing... it's either 0.02 per 1 lb, or 0.1 per 1 lb.... which is correct? Like I said, I still have to get the syringe/needles, so I probably won't dose her until tomorrow - and the Vit. C seems to be doing a good job so far, so I'm giving her another 50-100 mg of that today and we'll see how she looks tomorrow, but by tomorrow I will have all the supplies I need if I still need to give her an antibiotic.
Emily
You know what ....
Since this rabbit is so young I would try to weigh this rabbit before dosing andget the specific dose for the weight rather than adosage geared for "over and under" a certain weight
I would email Randy with the correct weight and ask him for the dosage [email protected]
Since this rabbit is so young I would try to weigh this rabbit before dosing andget the specific dose for the weight rather than adosage geared for "over and under" a certain weight
I would email Randy with the correct weight and ask him for the dosage [email protected]
BlueCamasRabbitry
Well-Known Member
Angie, I will weigh her when I go out in just a few minutes.
Also, what size gauge of needle should I get? Remember she's really little...so I think a huge needle would be too, well, big.
Emily
Also, what size gauge of needle should I get? Remember she's really little...so I think a huge needle would be too, well, big.
Emily
aurora369
Well-Known Member
I use a 24 or 23 1/2 gauge needle. That shouldn't be too big for her but big enough to move the fluids through it easily.
-Dawn
-Dawn
I would ask Randy that also...
I use a 25 gauge x 1 inch to draw up the penicillin (which is thick), switched needles to another 25 gauge to draw up the sterile water or lactated ringers or whatever you are using to dilute andthen used a25 gauge x 5/8 inches to give the injection . I change the needles before injecting because a new needle is sharper;I have never givenpenicillin on a really young rabbit but on a 3 lb adult .
Are you using bicillin or a procaine pencillin G
if you got it from a farm store what is the name on the bottle?
I use a 25 gauge x 1 inch to draw up the penicillin (which is thick), switched needles to another 25 gauge to draw up the sterile water or lactated ringers or whatever you are using to dilute andthen used a25 gauge x 5/8 inches to give the injection . I change the needles before injecting because a new needle is sharper;I have never givenpenicillin on a really young rabbit but on a 3 lb adult .
Are you using bicillin or a procaine pencillin G
if you got it from a farm store what is the name on the bottle?
As the number goes down on the gauge of the needle the diameter of the barrel is bigger. you can use any number to draw up the syringe but a lower number is better. a 23 or 24 is better than a 25 to draw it up.I only use the 25 gauge because it is what I ordered over the net. I should clarify that
ifDawn has used a 23 or 24 gauge to give the injection on a very young rabbitI am sure that would work. You don't want the needle hole so big that the drug leaks out.
ifDawn has used a 23 or 24 gauge to give the injection on a very young rabbitI am sure that would work. You don't want the needle hole so big that the drug leaks out.
tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
I remember a discussion where Dawn (Aurora369) mentioned using 22 or 23 gauge needles, and Peg (Tinysmom) used 1cc insulin syringes, which come with a small gauge needle already attached.
edit: Dawn and Maureen beat me to it!
You can use two different sizes, one to draw it up and one to inject. Sometimes puncturing the stopper on the bottle makes the needle you draw it up with dull so you need to replace it anyway.
edit: Dawn and Maureen beat me to it!
You can use two different sizes, one to draw it up and one to inject. Sometimes puncturing the stopper on the bottle makes the needle you draw it up with dull so you need to replace it anyway.
BlueCamasRabbitry
Well-Known Member
The penicillin I have is Penicillin G Procaine. Got it from a local feed store.
Also, the baby has been seeming perfectly fine. We've only seen her sneeze once since Thursday, and there was just a little bit of snot. Her paws aren't matted though, and she looks perfectly fine.
Should I still give her the Penicillin? I don't want to if she doesn't absolutely need it - I'm not sure if she does or not since she's got a clear nose/no sneezing, and her breathing is normal 99% of the time.
I gave her Vit-C again on Friday, and will give her a little bit more today.
Emily
Also, the baby has been seeming perfectly fine. We've only seen her sneeze once since Thursday, and there was just a little bit of snot. Her paws aren't matted though, and she looks perfectly fine.
Should I still give her the Penicillin? I don't want to if she doesn't absolutely need it - I'm not sure if she does or not since she's got a clear nose/no sneezing, and her breathing is normal 99% of the time.
I gave her Vit-C again on Friday, and will give her a little bit more today.
Emily
If the symptoms are actually dissipating on there own there is no need for the meds, however, watch her like a hawk because there is nothing worse than a lingering slow infection on the back burner.
thepenicillin that you have is not bicillin but a shorter acting type and can still be given but you would need to givethe injections daily rather than every other day..also the dosing is different.; it is still something you can do if needed . Be sure and keep the penicillin under constant refrigeration
thepenicillin that you have is not bicillin but a shorter acting type and can still be given but you would need to givethe injections daily rather than every other day..also the dosing is different.; it is still something you can do if needed . Be sure and keep the penicillin under constant refrigeration
tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
I think with the procaine form, you have to give it every day instead of every other. If you think she's better, then don't give it. How is her breathing abnormal that 1% of the time? Wheezy, coughing, deep, fast, shallow?
BlueCamasRabbitry
Well-Known Member
I would say that her breathing is just kind of wheezy - like just when she sneezes. Hah, it's hard to explain...but like she looks perfectly fine except for the occasional sneeze/snot (like when she gets a drink of water, which was the case the other day). I haven't seen her sneeze/haven't seen any mucus since Thursday, though.
Her breathing isn't as slow paced as it was when her nose was completely clogged - it's back to normal, she is breathing through her nose, no more fish-mimicking.
I will of course keep a very close eye on her. I plan on keeping this litter until August for county fair, so she won't be going anywhere for a while and that will be plenty of time to catch anything else that might pop up.
Emily
Her breathing isn't as slow paced as it was when her nose was completely clogged - it's back to normal, she is breathing through her nose, no more fish-mimicking.
I will of course keep a very close eye on her. I plan on keeping this litter until August for county fair, so she won't be going anywhere for a while and that will be plenty of time to catch anything else that might pop up.
Emily
