Possible Pasteurella

[kwhigam]

Oh, and I ran out of Critical Care so I ran his pellets through a coffee grinder and mixed them with a bit of orange juice this morning and again with some pureed baby carrot food and a little water this afternoon.

He just ate a small handful of Oxbow Western Timothy hay, a small piece of celery and a piece of fennel. He also ate some fresh basil today. He IS eating but not as much as I would like to see.

 

[ra7751]

B Comp is well known as a sort of stimulant....does something with the red blood cells to promote oxygen exchange. When I do pro wrestling, we use B Comp in a "cocktail" of vitamins that we call a Push Up. And it really seems to give a boost. And it's completely safe (keeping in mind that you can overdo even the best of things). We use it quite a bit in compromised wildlife to give them a boost to start eating on their own.

Randy

 

[kwhigam]

would it help to give B supplements orally as well? Maybe dissolved in juice and syringe fed? Just curious.

Oh,and he ate another big piece of fennel and more hay. Seems like he eats more when he's out of his cage than in!

 

[ra7751]

Oral doesn't seem to be as effective as injectables. Maybe something to do with the pH in the stomach.

 

[kwhigam]

OK, the vet tech told me that there were 2 bacteria found from the nasal swab: Gemella morbillorum and Staphylococcus Intermedius.

I did ask about the B Comp injection and she will have the vet call me back. It is my belief that the Baytril is killing the good bacteria in his stomach as well as the bad. That is the only reason I can think that this issue persists. That is the reason I started back up with the Bene-Bac yesterday.

The vet that saw him will be in later today, so they are having her call me this evening.

 

[kwhigam]

I thought of something, I have chinchillas as well as the rabbit, however the chinchillas are upstairs and the rabbit is downstairs and they have never come in contact with each other and I always wash my hands between animals. However, is there some way that the rabbit got something from the chins? Of course, I imagine that the same bacteria would be causing the same issues with the chins too, so I don't suppose that makes much sense.

 

[ra7751]

Only have a second here....have a talk with your vet regarding using Doxycycline instead of Baytril.

Randy

 

[kwhigam]

I will, any particular reason?

 

[ra7751]

Doxy is much more effective again strep (compared with Baytril)...and the Gemella has been known as Peptostreptococcus in the past. I have dealt with that very pathogen in a jaw abscess. Seems to have a lot of resistance issues with many of the commonly used drugs....including penicillin. The staph that was found is generally considered to be a normal flora....but it still in some situations can become a problem. I would really like to see what is in those ears....a cytology at very least and I would at least consider an x-ray to look at those molar roots. Just a side note on Peptostreptococcus....it is most sensitve to Clindamycin. That drug should not be used in rabbits since it tends to migrate to the GI tissues and can cause serious distress.

I don't know if your doctor would be willing to do this, but I would certainly like to take a look at the labs.

Randy

 

[kwhigam]

they won't give me any of the x-rays or lab work. They will fax it to another vet however. There is another vet that I found that ONLY deals with rabbits and I may change vets (not that this one isn't wonderful, but they started taking dogs and cats now and it is always so busy!)

Anyway, the vet said that I only have 3 more days of the Baytril and all signs show he is clear of any bacteria. I will be taking him back for a post examination, probably Thursday. I will ask them to do a full workup, and maybe get the B comp shot anyway, since it cannot hurt, right?

He is eating but not very much on his own. He picks at his veggies and only eats his favorites. He also has been eating about a tablespoon of pellets each day, but also about a small handful of timothy hay each day as well.

He has been drinking, peeing, and pooping. Of course, I have been supplementing his picky eating with force feedings to ensure that he stays that way. I am going to lessen the amount of food I force each day until his natural appetite returns to normal.

I am left feeling uneasy here. You see, I have vacation plans for three weeks starting July 20th. This is not something I can cancel, it is a cruise and I spent thousands of dollars on this. I have a pet sitter coming to watch my chinchillas and I COULD board the bunny at the vets, but three weeks in a cage with no outside play time is more than I can bear. Hopefully he'll be back in full swing before then.

The vet also said that they usually reserve the B comp shot for cases where the animal is emaciated or near to it. She said that they would do it if I wanted, however since he is doing OK that she did not think it necessary.

 

[ra7751]

Interesting that they won't give you the records....I don't know the laws in Canada but in the US, if you pay for the labs, they are yours. Would make me kind of wonder just why they won't give them to you....just a question would be lingering in the back of my mind. We do inject B Comp for emaciated animals but why not in an effort to keep them from becoming that way. Nearly all birds get the shot and most mammals that come into rescue. It won't hurt. Baytril still works a time or two in most animals.....just there are much better choices. But again, most vets are still behind the curve when it comes to "exotics"....getting better but we still have a ways to go in most cases. Fortunately some schools are starting exotic and wildlife focus studies which will give students more than just a passing day or two on exotics.

Randy

 

[kwhigam]

Well, I once had asked a doctor if I could take my personal X-ray with me and they would not let me. I didn't ask about the labs but I specifically said "x-rays" so maybe that was the difference.

As far as the B-comp I think it is more of a financial thing. They are expensive and the last time I took him in there I literally broke down crying stating that "I already spent $700 and no better for it". I was not whining about the money per se, as I will spend whatever it takes to ensure he stays healthy, but it was out of frustration and helplessness I felt at the moment. Perhaps she is just trying to save me money, thinking that I am poor.

Well, he is doing fine, just a few more days of antibiotics and, fingers crossed, he'll be back to his old self.

 

[ra7751]

A B Comp injection should not be very expensive. Again, not knowing about Canada but B Comp can be purchased without a prescription at farm supplies. Not something I would suggest you doing....as with any drug, it has to be dosed properly and you have to buy and entire bottle and that would be avery expensive dose. Even as much as we use B Comp, we dose such a small amount that the drug expires before we can finish a bottle. Hope the Baytril does the trick. At one time I used that drug all the time but have seen have the pathogens have mutated and become resistant. But many times it will work a time or two in most rabbits before problems start.

Randy

 

[kwhigam]

Now that I am giving Bene-Bac twice daily with his Baytril his appetite is coming back. Last night he ate two pieces of fennel, one endive "bloom", a broccoli sprout, a small piece of carrot, a handful of Timothy hay and two tablespoons of pellets!!

I take him out every evening for a minimum of two hours, but usually closer to 4 and he runs around very active and races around crazily and "binkies" just like normal.

I have estimated around 60 poos last night during playtime and about another 40-50 in his cage as of this afternoon (from 2 AM last night until 12:30 PM today). That is just visual as he likes to dig, so there are bound to be many not visible to me and I don't intend to start digging myself (I'm not THAT far gone, yet). They are all normal sized. Last night I did catch him producing and consuming a cecotrope as well.

The Baytril doses will be over on Wednesday, I will continue to give the Bene-Bac until then and most likely for 2 or 3 days after that for good measure.

 

[kwhigam]

Oh, and I am still force feeding, but have eased off from 3 times daily to twice daily and decreasing the amount. The more I see him eat on his own, the less I have been forcing on him.