Please help im desperate

[Pipp]

OakRidgeRabbits wrote:

Pipp wrote:

I have a hate-on for Hartz!

Oh, and just curious...what do you mean by "some of the products that they sell"? Just curious! I've never heard anything against them before.

My entire life I've been hearing about and seeing the effects of Hartz products. Honestly too many things to list! Their pesticides, their treats, their food... (the rabbit ingredients spell fatty liver disease in a box!) I haven't looked lately, maybe they've improved, but I doubt it!


sas

 

[Blaze_Amita]

I won't touch Hartz stuff with a ten foot pole! I was recommended once to use their stuff(long before i had rabbits, this was on my dog) and it burnt her so bad, it took me over 5 baths to get her to stop whining, bitting rubbing anything that came in sight to try and relieve herself not to mention some pain killers from the vet's office. Bad thing was one of the vets had reccommended it, said it worked wonderful on her pets.

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

Pipp wrote:

OakRidgeRabbits wrote:

LOL! Yep! Speaking of...I don't know how you personally feel about it, but I know several people who swear by yogurt for bringing back rabbits that they honestly thought wouldn't make it. I (luckily) have not experienced more than one digestive incident in nearly 10 years. *knock on wood*However, I did syringe him yogurt as soon as he went off his feed, and the buck was perfectly fine by morning.

I actually have a theory that too little importance is placed on the diet of the mother and how it relates to the longterm health of the kits. Maybe they end up with immunity against food sensitivitioes through their mothers' milk and weaning diets. Foreign food is more likely to cause problems. Mom gets hay, veggies and pellets and the kits adapt. Mom and kits only get pellets, and their systems are more easily upset when they get suddenly dumped in a pet store or somebody's living room with little or no preparation. But babies within the breeder community conssistantly fed pellets from from generation to generation are healthier because of the consistency.

That's a good point, and I agree. I've been bashed on many sites for saying this though because NO. RABBITS. CAN. EVER. EAT. PELLETS.

Did you know they immediately suffer from stasis and die?! LOL!

I agree with you, it's very individual.

 

[tonyshuman]

Randy's favorite milk replacer is powdered Esbilac puppy milk. It sounds, however, like supervised feedings and a smaller nestbox will help these kits out.

Off topic: Rabbits cannot digest lactose, which is the reason why yogurt is not well tolerated in many rabbits. I think plain brewer's yeast or acidophillus supplements made for humans (open the gel capsule, pour out the stuff) would be better than yogurt. In any case, I keep Bene-Bac on hand for any digestive irregularities. The goal of these probiotics is to acidify the digestive tract, which keeps the correct microorganisms thriving. If a rabbit can tolerate yogurt (and doesn't get too much of it), the acidophillus will acidify the gut.

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

Well, like I said, I know more than one breeder who has had great success using yogurt in buns who are on the brink of death. Not just as a probiotic, but it boosts blood sugar and helps keep them hydrated when they will not eat anything else.

Many breeders also feed it regularly as a preventative.

 

[Pipp]

OakRidgeRabbits wrote:

it boosts blood sugar and helps keep them hydrated when they will not eat anything else.

Great point. Like the pineapple debate. It may not dissolve blockages of hair or mucus like first thought, but it provides energy and hydration. So it works, but for different reasons.

It's just that people tend to use a 'one size fits all' mindset where something like pineapple or yogurt will be given whether the problem was caused by a molt, anorexia or an imbalance triggered by too many carbs. May work in two of those but can be pretty detrimental re: the third.


sas :bunnydance:

 

[ohsnapitscharity]

just want everyone to know all kits look good. im pretty sure all it was is missed a feedong (possiibly two for the extra thin one)

 

[RattiesSix]

I usually stay out of debates, and just lurk, but I have to put my two cents in on the Hartz train here.

My very amazing exotics vet told me to NEVER under ANY circumstances use Hartx or Seargantz brand ANYTHING. In our area, there was a very big scare with their products a few years back. People brought in dogs, cats, and exotics alike that were having seizures from their flea shampoo, and their flea treatments. A few cats and dogs actually died.

There was also quite a few furred animals with a severe allergic reaction to their products, with loss of hair, itching, and open sores due to itching.

I think both brands are crap. That's just my honest opinion. I won't use any of them without talking to my vet first. Especially since there are better, safer brands on the market.

I'm not trying to start something. If it has worked for you in the past, I'm very glad. It could have just been an isolated thing in my area. I'm not sure. But it makes me too nervous to chance it.

 

[anneq]

Good to hear the babies are doing better.
Please keep us updated (and post pics of the babies too!)

 

[Sweetie]

Glad the babies are doing better!

I didn't know that rabbits cannot digest lactose. Very interesting.

Please post pics of babies and mommy!

 

[Maureen Las]

http://www.geocities.com/againsthartz/
This is mostly related to their flea and tick products killing off a lot of pets
which initself says a lot about the company

 

[ohsnapitscharity]

babies and mommy coming tomorrow! havent updated because ive been gone. left them at home with my grandmother. all is well! tips on handling babies would be great.

 

[anneq]

Well, at this point, it's pretty basic.

Make sure mom has unlimited pellets, hay & water.
Mine like a pinch of rolled oats (old fashioned, not the instant or quick) - it helps their coat and is a nice treat.
My babies started nibbling on the hay in the pen around 2-3 weeks old, so it's good if they can have access to the hay also.
With the warm weather, also make sure they will stay cool (frozen soda bottles are good).

 

[ohsnapitscharity]

is there a stages of development page anywhere?

 

[anneq]

Maybe PM one of the mods and see if they have one archived.

Generally, babies should start to open their eyes around 10-11 days. By that time they should be covered in fur.

2-3 weeks they should start nibbling on hay and will also start to explore a water-bottle nozzle if it's in reach.
They will start to nibble on pellets 3-4 weeks. They should however be allowed to nurse to 8weeks if they still want.
They can be safely weaned after 8 weeks if the doe hasn't started to do so already.
Very young rabbits can also be given rolled oat (just a pinch, as too much can cause runny poops).

UNLESS the mother has eaten had fresh veggies during pregnancy and nursing, it is strongly recommended to NOT introduce these till the young rabbit is around 6mos.old, and then, in very small amounts.

 

[tonyshuman]

I looked for one, but couldn't find it.