Please help fix Karma

[brittanyschlenker]

Hi my name is Brittany,
I have a flemish giant x english lop, she is almost 5 years old. she is 12.5lbs, she used to be around 16lbs. Her diet consists of 18% rabbit pellets, as much timothy as she can eat, a carrot a day, an apple a week, and anything else she can steal when your not looking. I love this girl with all my heart, she doesnt even know shes a bunny, she thinks she is a dog. She is spayed and litter trained, she never spends more then a couple days in her cage without getting out for more then 8 hours. Recently I took her to a meet the kids day at work, where they brought 60+ 4 year olds to meet animals.

A couple days after this she developed an inner ear infection, I know this because I used to rescue, vet,rehabilitate, and rehome bunnies. I have taken her to the vet every 2 weeks for the last 8 weeks, now at a bill of over $500 dollars. Her ear infection got better for a small amount of time then its like the meds stopped working. She has been on 5ml of chlorapalm 250, twice a day for almost 7 weeks now. she was switched to baytril for a small amount of time, but she quickly regressed on it and was switched back. After no improvement for 2 more weeks I took her back, the vet said at that point that he is going to treat her for parasites and this is the last resort treatment. So right now she is on 5ml chlorapalm 2x a day, 1ml fenbendazole 1x a day, and 30ml of bayril 1x a day. her bowel movements are noraml and I am giving her a probiotic to help her tummy. But I am not seeing a significant improvement, I need suggestions as this is one of the only exotics vet within 12 hours driving distance, I dont drive, and this is his last resort treatment. I am not ready to let her go over a stupid inner ear infection.

Her symptoms include
-stumbles when she walks
-severe wry neck
-body twists when shes lifted and takes a minute to right herself
-eyes turned up
-spins in one general direction

Please any suggestions will be brought to the vet as ideas, I dont want to lose my baby and she hasnt given up either.

 

[JBun]

I'm so sorry your rabbit is going through this. Hopefully you'll be able to find something that will help her recover fully. I've read that Zithromax or possibly bicillin can be helpful for ear infections. Also an anti inflammatory like metacam, is often prescribed as well. You might also find these links helpful.

http://www.onthewonk.com/?p=2%2EHeadtilt+experiences%2FLara+%28Detailed+Diary%29&trk=menu:Lara (Detailed Diary)
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/tilt.html
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Otit/otitis.htm

 

[ladysown]

doesn't sound like inner ear infection.... sounds like cunniculi

 

[majorv]

Yea, I was thinking the same thing....stress, like 60+ 4 year olds around you can activate it if its dormant. Has the vet done a blood titer on her? It takes two separate tests to show if there's an active infection. The fenbendazole would be the treatment for EC, if that's what it is. Wouldn't hurt to talk to the vet about it.

 

[Maureen Las]

The articles that JBun gave you are excellent resources . It is often difficult to determine whether a rabbit has EC or an inner ear infection, however, English lops are notorious for getting difficult to resolve ear infections because the length of the ears provide a perfect place for bacteria to thrive.
It is often necessary to treat an animal for very lengthy periods . It would be good if the vet could have done a Culture and Sensitivity to determine which antibiotics may be the most sensitive to the bacteria involved. Although Azithromycin was effective in Lara's case some vets will use 2 antibiotics simultaneously to get a synergistic effect. oral Zithromax/azithromycin can be paired with injectable bicillin and I have used oral baytril and bicillin although my rabbit's ear infection had not progressed to even a moderate degree. Another drug that has been effective for infections is Convenia .

Chloramphenical is an excellent drug for deep difficult infections so possibly the bacteria is not sensitive to it.

if she does have EC she should respond to the fenbendazole. .. and if it s EC you might want to think about Marquis/Ponazuril for the future.

I have a friend who has had 3-4 English lops and there is not one of them that has not had ear infections. One of them was maintained on bicillin and baytril for the last 3 yrs of his life.
There is a surgery available for English lops but this would not realistic at this time and it is also very expensive.

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Surgery/Ear/ear_resection.htm


here is a HRS article describing the structure of the rabbits ears :

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/4-11/ear.html

I feel:bunnyhug: sad for you and your girl but I, too encourage you to explore every option to try to help her

 

[brittanyschlenker]

Thank you for all the info and sites, I do have quite a few of those links printed and at the vet already as reference. I asked the vet to do a sensitivity culture but he refused, I also asked him if he thought that bicicillin was a good idea and again he said no. I am not going to give up on this I understand she may be tilted for thee rest of her life I just want her to be able to move around again. I am going to seek a second opinion before I even consider euthanize her especially since I know thee are other treatments that he is not even considering. I will keep everyone posted on what winds up happening

 

[JBun]

I would certainly get a second opinion, especially since your current vet doesn't seem very open to trying other things that may help. Many vets just aren't very experienced when it comes to rabbits. You may be able to find a good rabbit vet near you on one of these lists.

http://rabbit.org/vet-listings/
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f28/finding-vet-13366/

 

[brittanyschlenker]

 

[brittanyschlenker]

Today Karma is seeming a little more like herself, personality wise anyways. I have a few concerns
1. her eyes seem like they are quite a bit out of alignment
2. her body still twists significantly when you pick her up
3. she is eating weird things like paper and cardboard, she has hay pellets carrot and the occasional baby cookie. I also give her greek yogurt once in a while to help with all the meds shes on.

Last and most concerning sometimes when you pick her up then put her down, it seems like shes having seizures or mini strokes. She will twitch rapidly then you hold her tight and it stops. this has happened twice now and it scares me. The last time it happened was more then a week ago but I am afraid for her and my vet doesnt seem to have a clue.

 

[JBun]

I think the eyes looking out of alignment, may have to just do with the tilted head and maybe the inflammation. You didn't mention if she was also getting an anti inflammatory like metacam. As long as she doesn't have kidney problems, metacam can be a very important med in head tilt recovery, as it helps reduce the inflammation that is causing the sgns of head tilt. and thus helping to reduce any permanent damage done from the inflammation. Some times some vets will use a few doses of steroids, but that is very risky in rabbits and is considered a last resort medication, when the head tilt is severe and not improving. And if she doesn't have eye drops already, she will probably need those as well, as rabbits with head tilt often develop eye problems, especially in the 'down' eye.

This can be a lengthy illness whether it is being caused by an ear infection or e. cuniculi, and it can take time to really see significant improvement, and even then signs of the head tilt can remain depending on how much permanent damage has been done. Difficulties encountered when a rabbit is picked up while it has this illness, seems to be pretty common. It seems that it makes them feel very disoriented and may set things spinning for them, which can make them really have a violent reaction to it, which may be what you are seeing. It's really best to try and limit picking up as much as possible to avoid this discomfort happening for her. Some jpeople have found the motion sickness med, meclizine, to be helpful for their rabbits. You could mention it to your vet. If you haven't read the personal stories of the other rabbits with this on the onthewonk site, I would suggest you go through them, as you might find some very useful information to help your rabbit, from those experiences.

The paper and cardboard eating could be due to a need for more fiber. Does she have continued access to grass hay, and is she actually eating it. It can sometimes be hard for them to eat it when their head is severely tilted. You may need to assist her or place the hay in a way that she can access it more easily. Also getting a more mature fiberous grass hay may help, as well as if you have access to willow or apple branches. Sometimes the need for more fiber is due to the fact that they are experiencing a gut slowdown, and they will turn to eating paper if they don't have access to other natural things to provide that fiber for them. In which case it would probably be a good idea to stop sugary treats for now, if she is experiencing a gut slowdown. How are her poops looking? Are they normal in size and consistency, or are they mushy or smaller than usual? Also with the yogurt, it's usually best not to be giving dairy products to rabbits as they can't digest them and it can cause GI upset. Usually when a vet has prescribed antibiotics, they will also give a pet probiotic like benebac or probios along with it. You could ask your vet for some or sometimes farm supply or pet stores will carry it.

If you are seeing stabilization and/or improvement in your rabbit, then it sounds like the meds that she is on may be helping her, but like I mentioned, it can take some time. And if left with a permanent head tilt, rabbits will usually need to learn to adjust to their new life and learn how to cope and walk with their head in that position.

She's a beautiful rabbit and looks like a real sweetheart! I really hope she continues to do better and recover from this horrible illness.

 

[brittanyschlenker]

So I took Karma to a different vet today because the vet she was seeing wanted to take her off all the meds except the fenbenzole, he was convinced that that was causing the slight improvement. I however wasnt convinced and it seemed to sudden to just take her off of everything except the antiparasitic.

The new vet is keeping her on everything but lowered the chlorapalm to 1ml twice a day, 10mg baytril twice a day, and fenbenzole 1ml once a day. she also did a culture test which I asked the last vet to do but he refused, should have the results in a few days. Now at a vet bill of over $800 total

Today Karma ran around my basement quite a bit, seemed a little more like her normal self. she is still wry necked and has turned up eyes. the new vet also said that her 3rd eye lid is a little out of control, probably due to the nerves being pressed in her ear. She also told me which the other vet never did, that her ear drrum is ruptured but this my be a good thing as it makes it much more pain free.

Karma has been eating all the hay she can get her teeth on, and she has a never ending supply. shes been picking at the pellets a little. I find if she doesnt eat pellets she loses weight way to easily. shes also been stealing seed and pellets from my parrots the last few days.

Ill keep everyone posted on what the culture shows and how shes doing. Thank you for all your support

 

[Maureen Las]

Actually from what you have described she does sound better ! I am glad that you decided to seek a 2nd opinion ; Keep us updated!!!