Pen G Vs. Bicillin

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I just emailed a few friends inthe S. Chicago area last night to ask about rabbit savvy vets in the area. I just heard back from one bunny mom and this is who she highly recommends:

Dr. Kate Ball at Mokena Animal Clinic
9455 west 191st. Street, Mokena, IL
708-479-2811

If thats close to you it might be worth at least calling there and asking if she has ever treated abscesses in rabbits with Bicillin and/or Zithromax.
 
Hi Haley,

Yes, Pidge has seen Dr.Kate before, this was who I was talking about getting him in with today.They wereable to sqeeze him in. She pulled his records from the last vet and even said that she was very surprised that he was only on the Pen G once a week. She is so nice and understanding about things. She didswitch Pidgeto the Bicillin every other day! We are going to see how he is doing next friday, if it seems to be helping she is going to show me how to do it at home. Whew, what a relief, Im so glad she knew about this treatment and had it there at the vet. I can relax a little now, I was so worried about him getting the correct treatment.

Thanks for all your help!

Julie
 
Thats awesome! :)

I should mention it can sometimes take a while to notice any effects. For me it was probably almost a month. Its definitely good if she can show you how to do it at home- I cant imagine having to go to the vets every other day! Not to mention its less stressful on Pidgey.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Haley

PS. Randy's advice on using Lactated Ringers to buffer the shot is great. You should definitly ask her about this when you go in. Its just a saline solution so I cant imagine why they wouldnt. :)
 
yeah, I have heard that it can take some time before it starts to really work. I will ask her about the lactated ringers also, I'm sure she will be fine with it, shes a cool and KNOWLEDGABLE (finally!) doctor.

julie and pidgey
 
Haley wrote:
Yup, its 300,000 units (150k PenG Procaine and 150k PenG Benzathine). I found an online site once you could order from but the problem is Im not sure how it would be shipped and still be effective since it has to be refridgerated.
Click to expand...

Haley, 4 years ago I bought a bottle of Bicillin from a pharmaceutical company in New York (Bicillin is not available in Europe) and they had it shipped and transported till Greece packed in an insulatedboxwrapped up indry ice. It took 3 days to be flown and delivered to me in Athens and, when I got it,the bottle was still cold and in perfect condition.

Marietta
 
Has anyone who has used the Bicillin had any problems with it? Pidgey is eating, he just seems so tired and down though, since he sarted on it. He didn't even come out of his pen today, he's just been laying around. This concerned me a little bit, just thought I would see what everyone elses experiences have been.

Julie
 
Hi Julie,

Ask your vet about a littleinjection of B Comp. Many domestic vets don't know this little trick but we use it in wildlife quite a bit (works for me personallyfrom time to time too). It's called a "push up" and works great.

Randy
 
I took your advice Randy, when Pidge went to get his injection yesterday I asked about the B comp injection, and they were able to give it to him! It did seem to help he has been such a busy little guy today, I opened his pen around 9AM this morning and he never went in until about 4PM. This isGreat, this is more like my Pidgey, not that sleepy, lil bunny that was here all week!!

The doctor did show me how to give the injections myself, I am a little nervous about it, I don't want to hurt him. Does anyone have any other tips about giving injections!

julie
 
So it is now a year later, and how is your bunny doing?

My little guy is similarly situated, so I would like to know. Mickey has been on Pen G for over two months with much improvement, but he still has the abscess (behind his eye). My vet has been supportive, but now feels we should consider surgery (and probable removal of his eye).

So you see, I would like to know your outcome.

Thanks -

Susan
 
I don't know the specifics of this case nor the specifics of dealing with an abscess behind the eye, however for many abscesses tx Randy has suggested a combo of drugs for tx

for ex bicillin and zithromax or bicillin and chloramaphenical ; the synergistic effect between the two drugs can sometimes knock out the infection

by pen GI think that you mean bicillin. If your bun is improvingI wouldn't stop the meds (I am not a vet) but consider other options with drugs .


It is also possible that eventually the eye will need to be removed, however , i would consider other options first.
I have had rabbits on bicillin for over 2 months without problems

the issue here is that the bicillin itself may not be enough to knock ou the infection entirely.

Another thought is whether you feel that your vet is 'cutting edge" on treatment and

possibly you may want to seek a 2nd opinion
 
Susan,

What version of Penicillin is your vet using? And with walled off infections like that....I usually combine the Pen with either Zithromax or Chloramphenicol. I have treated some very serious abscesses in the head.....and I used this combo of drugs as a "Hail Mary" treatment due to an abscess behind an eye. Danny was being scheduled to remove the eye but this combo successfully treated the problem. And now several years later, he still has that eye. I have posted pics in several threads....I will post it here later tonight so you can see the infection.

Randy
 
Hi -

Actually, this is the second opinion, and the facility - Angell Memorial in Boston - is considered cutting edge. They are certainly pricey.

I don't know if the drug is actually Pen G or Bicillin. The vet referred to it as Pen G. Maybe I should try to find out.

I have been giving Mickey injections at home every other day since New Year's. Initially there was dramatic improvement but now it seems to have plateaued (not sure I spelled that right). There has been one slight improvement in the last week; Mickey's eye has stopped constantly tearing, which it had been doing since December.

The abscess is behind his eye, and is considered inoperable except with removal of the eye.



Susan








 
Hi, Randy -



So is the Pen you were using this Bicillin that I see people speaking of, or was it the other Penicillin G?

I will call now and see if the pharmacy will tell me. The vet just referred to the med as Pen G, and the vial does not specify.



Thanks -



Susan
 
Wow!! I didnt realize that it has been a year already since we started the injections! He was on the injections for about 6 months and I am happy to say that he has been abcess free since august (8 months!, Woo Hoo!)I hope your little guy has as much success as Pidge has!!!

julie & Pidgers
 
Thanks, Julie -

It's encouraging to hear Pidge is recovered and to learn the length of the treatment.

I checked and Mickey is actually on Bicillin (the vet/hospital staff just refer to it as Pen G). If I'm reading the postings correctly you had Pidge on Bicillin only, every other day, is that right? With a B complex to help her (Pidge is a girl, right?) at one point?



Susan


 
Thats correct, Pidge was on Bicillin every other day to begin, but I noticed that it still seemed to be growing so we ended up dong the injections every day, that really seemed to kick that abcesses bootie! HEHE

Hehe, Pidge is a boy!
 
Procaine pen G is shorter acting penicillin and usually would be given daily if you could not get bicillin

benzathine Gpencillin is longer acting and I am uncertain when it is given alone.

Bicillin is procaine penicillin G 150,000 uand benzathine pencillin 150,000 uwhich is combined into 300,000 u per ml. It is sold in farm stores under names like Combi pen-48 , Dura-Pen and other similar names but the combination of the 2 penicillins in that amount of units is what matters. it is aveterinary drug sold over the counter for cattle butthis is what many people use for their rabbits. I don't know what vets use or where they get their bicillin.
I would think that you could ask your vet about combining the drug (bicillin) with the another oral drug as mentioned by Randy as a last attempt to save the eye and shrink the abscess.
Randy said he would post pics later of his eye abscess success rabbit from Sabrina's
 
Hi, again -

Well, Mickey has been having Bicillin shots every other day since New Years, and it is now April 11. The abscess has shrunk, but not in the last month. I can tell it is still there, as his third eye (eyelid) still shows. Not much change in the last two months. The only thing, is that about a month ago, his eye stopped weeping - constant tearing. Oh, yes, and his plops returned to normal after months of being these miniscule, anthracite-like pebbles that suggested dehydration to me, even though the vet said he was not dehydrated. He seems happy and eats well. But we just continue with the shots.

The vet is approving the prescriptions for a moment, but has said we should do a cat scan ($1000 I haven't got) and probably surgery ($God only knows how much, certainly at least the price of the cat scan).

I know that Pidge was Bicillin on every day, and I'm wondering if I should do the same, without the vet's input.
(She was not supportive of that idea, or of adding other meds without a cat scan).

Any advice?

Susan
 
I never heard of doing bicillin daily although I did read the post bunnymommy wrote. The ideal is get a oral drug like zithromax to combine with the bicillin.
I do know of cases here where friends of mine are self-treating with bicillin alone. The problems usually improve dramatically so that the rabbit can have a really good quality of life but not enough to actually knock the infection out.

I would talk with your vet a little of the financial issues related to the scan (although that is the ideal course) and ask him if he will do an oral drug if you sign a waiver releasing him from responsibility. Usually randy will also talk to a vet that calls him. So you could ask your vet if she would be willing to talk to Randy to save money for your self

If not you may want to pm bunnymommy

I think that it is aggravating that vets think we are all millionaires (just an aside)
let us know..
 
I realize every bun is different but Pidge was only on the bicillin every day no other oral meds and it did knock the infection out. I have seen no sign of this abcess since(I do check him everyday) I would try the shots everyday and see what happens. I would would not put him through surgery, Pidge had surgery the first time he had the abcess and it was aweful for him and me. That is why I opted for the bicillin when it came back. What kind of dosage are you currently giving him? If It was my bun I would try it everyday, I would never put him through surgery, it is aweful. I must admit that pidge is a strong little guy, I dont know what keeps him going he is 9yrs old, and has been through 2 surgeries, bicillin shots for 6 months, shots for mites, not to mention the ocasionally GI stasis. If Pidge can do it so can Mickey!!!
 
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