peanuts

[juicyjuicee]

do "peanuts" ever survive for more than a couple days and actually grow up just like a normal bun?

 

[imported_Austin]

A true peanut will NEVER grow up. Ihave had them hang on for up to 2 weeks but they will alwayssuccumb. Atrue dwarf rabbit has 1 normal gene and 1dwarfing gene. A peanut is a baby that inherited 1 dwarfinggene fromeach parent - giving it the double dwarfing genesthat are ALWAYS fatal. There are those out there that claimto have had peanuts live but these are not true peanuts - these arejust very tiny runts. Double dwarfing genes are always fatal.

 

I truely believe there isdifferent degrees of a peanut ,it cant always be a runt babyeverytime one survives My Vet isdoing research intothe different degrees of it ,As soon as he has completed it and letsme know I will let everyoneknow what he finds out.

 

[imported_Austin]

There are no differant degrees ofpeanuts. A peanut is a baby with 2 dwarfing genes.You don't get 1 1/2 dwarfing genes or 1 dwarfing geneplus asliver of another. The only differance is in the degree in which iteffects the baby. Some are born dead, some live a few daysand it gets them, others can live alittle longer but in the end, thedouble dwarfing gene is always fatal. It is just a matter ofhow badly the baby is damaged at birth and how soon that damage takesit's toll. Peanuts are unable to absorb nutrients andtherefore, slowly starve to death. Some are able to absorbsmall amounts for longer periods of time and so, they are able to keepgoing for more than a few days. There have even been reportsthat some have lived for up to a year with sub q hydrationandhigh caloric dietsbut in the end, they too passaway. Rabbits born with 2 dwarfing genes are not going tosurvive for long. That is just a sad part of life forthem. Unless your vet has a scientificlabwhere he can study actual genetics under a controled environment, it isnot true research. It is only one vet doing comparisionstudies of the cases he/she sees or hears about.

 

[Starlight Rabbitry]

I raise Jersey Woolies and I had a peanut born acouple of years ago. It did survive to be about 6 weeks oldbut that was because I hand raised it. It never got biggerthan a 3 week old and died. The trick to avoiding gettingpeanuts in the litter is to breed a "dwarfed" male with a female thatdoes not have the dwarfing gene. In my herd most of my doesare non-dwarf does. This eliminates the peanuts.However, the down side is that instead of having peanuts you will getbabies that do not carry the dwarf gene thanks to mom.

 

[imported_Austin]

I too keep a couple of does in my dwarf hototherd that do not carry a dwarfing gene (the BUD does - big uglydoes). You are right, you will never get a peanut out of oneof their litters. And again, you are right, it shifts the %of dwarf rabbits vs non dwarf rabbits. I don't mind gettingthe BUD does because you can use them or sell them as breeding stockbut the bucks become a problem. No one wants a BUB -big ugly buck.

For those of you that are lost - this may clear it up alittle for you -

normal gene -Dnormal rabbit - DD

dwarfing gene -ddwarf rabbit - Dd

peanut - dd

dwarf rabbit (Dd) Xdwarf rabbit(Dd)= 50% dwarf rabbits, 25% normal rabbits, 25%peanuts (averages not absolutes)

dwarf rabbit (Dd) X normal rabbit (DD)=50% dwarf rabbits, 50% normal rabbits - so you won't get peanuts but onaverage you will get 25% more of the BUDs and BUBs.

While I do keep only the best of my BUD does, I don't like to keep toomany of them just because of the non-dwarfing factor. I amraising dwarf rabbits, not big ugly rabbits. Peanuts are justa sad fact of raising dwarf rabbits. I don't breed to avoidthem - I breed to get (hopfully) only the best dwarf rabbits from mybest rabbits. If a peanut shows up in the nest box, I don'tget shook up over it. I leave them to contribute body heat tothe nest and when they pass away, they get removed. It's justnot that big of a deal to the serious breeder. Only the petpeople seem to get disturbed by them. (and before I get angryresponses, I have nothing against the pet people out there!)

 

[BlueGiants]

That was very well put, Austin. Webreed Mini Rex (and Flemish Giants!) and occasionally get the "dd"Peanut. None have ever survived past 6 days. Myvet(andthe research I've done...)indicatethey can't absorb nutrients and most haveunder-developed digestive systems and nervous systems... I've alwaysused it as an indicator that there are strong dwarf gene's in themating... I also leave them in the nest for as long as they makeit. A lot of my moms put themout of thenestat some point. And as long as people want andbuy tiny, cute,rabbits that STAY little, this will be fact oflife.

 

[Starlight Rabbitry]

Austin - With keeping "dwarf does", do you findthat these does have problems kindling? I have lost two doesand almost a third because they babies got stuck in the birth canal andthey died before I even noticed there was a problem? I findthat with the bigger does, I do not have this problem. Isthere something that I can do to prevent this from happening to the"dwarf" does or is it just nature?

Sharon

 

[FreddysMom]

there are always genetic exceptions to the rule...

 

[imported_Austin]

I'm not sure what you mean by the last post ofthere always being exceptions to the rule. With peanuts,there are never exceptions. The double dwarfing gene isalways fatal and there has never been any rabbit ever studied that wasproven to be a double dwarf that led a good long life. Thereare very tiny rabbits out there that people claim to be living peanutsbut this has never been proven. They are just very tinyrunts. Until there is a proven case of a peanut living a goodlong life, I will believe that it is an impossibility.

Yes, I have had problems with my little dwarf does giving birth attimes, but it has not been very often nor have I ever lost a doe of anysize during birth. With dwarf does, it is important that youget them started early. The general rule with rabbits is thata doe should give birth to her first litter before her firstyear. I get my dwarf does going by 5 1/2 months ofage. The sooner you get them bred and get that first litterout of them, the better they will do. Even if they are poormothers and loose that first litter, they have given birth and willusually do better the next time. It gets theirreproductive system opened up and increases their chances for asuccessful outcome with the next litter. I give all my youngdoes 3 or 4 chances before I decide they are not going to get it rightor are physically incapable of getting it right, and sellthem to a pet home. My smallest brood doe is just slightlyover 2 lbs and she does a very good job with her litters. Shemay only have 2 or 3 at a time but she does not need any help and sheis a good mother. For me and my profession, it is importantthat my brood does know what to do and how to do it right because Ican't always be there to hover over them on their big day.Good brood does are a delight to have in the barn. Problemdoes need a new job - ie, someone's pet or.... Mostof my brood does are also does that were born and raisedhere. If their mother and grandmother gave birth easily andwere good mothers, chances are that they will do a good job aswell. 90% of my problem does are outcross does brought intothe herd to expand the gene pool.

 

******" Unless your vet has ascientificlab where he can study actual genetics under acontroled environment, it is not true research. It is onlyone vet doing comparision studies of the cases he/she sees or hearsabout "***********

He has access to aresearchfacility, No case by case comaprisonbeing done here at all . So YES this iswhat you callTRUE Reasearch ,

 

[imported_Austin]

Since genetics is my major and my profession, Iwould be curious to speak with your vet. Do youhave any contact information where I could phone or e-mail. Iam always up for learning new things and new methods for aquiringinformation. If your vet is a research vet, I would love totalk to him and compare notes. I am always popping in on myold college professor and talking 'what ifs' with him. I amone of those that truly loves to be proven wrong about ideas that havebeen the accepted understanding for forever. That means thereis progress being made.

 

[imported_Austin]

Funny how when you ask to speaktotheir vet orresearcher, they stop answeringyou. There is very little chance that any serious vet orresearcher is going to waste their time studying peanuts and whether ornot thereareanydifferantdegrees ofpeanutism. Also very doubtful that any research labout there would be willing to turn over part of it's valuable space andresourcesto someonejust to study something that isalready a given. It is well known in thegenetic world what causes peanuts and that it is a fatal condition -ALWAYS. There is a simular occurance that happenswith overo paint horses but it too is accepted asALWAYS beingfatal.There are far more serious thingsout there for them to spend their time on than whether or not thepeanuts in dwarf litters are total peanuts or maybe onlyalittle bit peanut or whether or not they can besaved. Again, nothing against the petpeople but it is only the pet people who seem to get overly upset aboutsomething that is just what it is in nature. The seriousbreeder accepts what is and just moves on.

 

[DaisyNBuster]

Austin wrote:

Funny how when you ask to speak totheir vetorresearcher, they stop answering you.

At the moment gypsy isnt actually online to answer, but I am sure she will get back to you on this reply.

Vickie


*EDIT* Oh and me being a "Pet People", I don't really like the way youare coming accross. Not to be rude or anything, but you comeaccross as slightly above everyone else.

 

[Carolyn]

"Funny how when you ask to speak totheir vet orresearcher, they stop answering you."



Austin, you need to check yourself. Your know-it-alland rude attitude is going to get you kicked right out of this forum ifyou don't cut it out. You've been flippantmore thanonce and I'm tired of it. There's no need to be condescendingor nasty when someone questions what you say or doesn't agree withit.

Gypsy is a very busy woman.How do you know that she even saw this post yesterday?

I'd stronglysuggest you leave your attitude at the door.

-Carolyn

 

Carolyn and Buster and Daisyare correct I only just a few minutesago saw this post I refused torespond to a case of the***, I have sent Carolyn allthe Information on Myvet she Knows nowwho and what he is ,

I pay dearly for this Man's expertise, But I would have it no otherway , I have to make appointmentswith him On Only One day a week, He is the founder of the HospitalI take my animals too notto mention he is a VERYBusy , Yet when Icall and He is in Hewill always take the time toexplain something to Me , I value thisMan's credentials and Patiencewith a constant worry wart .

As for Austin Go Play in Traffic , Ifyou like I will create the traffic.

 

[juicyjuicee]

Never thought mytopic would cause such chaos:shock:

 

[DaisyNBuster]

juicyjuicee wrote:

Never thought mytopic would cause such chaos:shock:

Don't worry about it juicy. When you've been round here a long time youget used to ***holes like this. They come and they go, but its the gooduns that stay around .

Vickie

 

[FreddysMom]

gypsy wrote:

As for Austin Go Play in Traffic , Ifyou like I will create the traffic.

:gun:get 'em!!

 

[Dakotah]

I don't understand something here. Aquestion was asked and a knowlegable answer was given. Otherswant to disagree even when the facts can be looked up anywhere in anygood rabbit book or web site. While Austin's style may be abit abrasive to some, I have learned alot and copied alot of whathe/she has posted as it is valuable information to me and should be toothers as well. I thought we were all on here to learnreguardless of whether or not we like what we hear or the 'tone' wefeel it is being delivered in. It also seems to me that thereis a group on here that feel that only their opinion is the correct oneand if you disagree, well it is time to ban them. I just donot understand. There is one person on here who backs almosteverything they say with a sort of 'believe me because my vet told meso'. Well, if your vet really is telling you this stuff, whatis wrong with someone asking to learn from the same personyouare learning from? I know a clique when I see one and I knowwhen someone has been unfaily targeted. Not everyone knowseverything, even if they think they do. At least Austin washonest enough to admit that there is still more to learn abouteverything. The rest of you seem pretty closed minded andthin skinned. I for one would like to still have the optionof picking and choosing where my information comes from and whether ornot I wish to follow it. It seems to me that we have a few'leaders' here and a bunch of 'followers' who have nomindsof their own. By telling someone to go play intraffic so you can be the traffic - what a bunch ofchildren. Rabbits are rabbits reguardless of theirpurpose in life and the information to properly care for them is thesame. Only the people caring for them make itdifferant. Like I said, I just do not get it.