Pain indication= happiness?

[Acacia-Berry]

My beautiful 4 year old mini-rex Akina has been having loooong running abscess issues. Actually since I got her off my cousin 2 years ago she was always afflicted with something, but anyway, this time she is being treated with Baytril for another abscess (prob her 5-6th one since last September ) behind her eye on the same side she had 2 teeth extracted from in December. She lies around in her pen and never really played with toys anyway but does not seemed to be bothered by attention of toys. Only thing that seems to brighten her day is treats and food time. She hides from me because she knows I come to give her the nasty and pick her pus- and I know she associates me with discomfort bc I had a girl guide sleepover and my sister and mom gave her the medicine but since she dont know them she trusted them and didnt put up a fight.
My question is as long as she is sitting around grinding her teeth is she in dire pain? Does she seem depressed? She does usually have a dirty bum which I try to keep clean because Im afraid of infected hocks but vet said they look good now they're calloused- when I take her out to run around, she pees on my bed or away from her litter box and then lies down and stays there.......

 

[Pipp]

You may be dealing with the same abscess, it's just reoccurring, sometimes in different places.

I don't think Baytril is enough to knock it out. I'd suggest an aggressive regime of INJECTABLE Penicillin/Bicillin/PenG along with an oral antibiotic like Zithromax and try and knock the thing out once and for all. Baytril has gotten notoriously ineffective although a lot of vets still use it because they figure its safe.

The other issue is pain relief. If she's got abscesses and she's grinding her teeth, she's in a lot of pain, and that in turn could be causing the GI tract issues, putting her in more pain.

Get her on some serious pain medication (or at least Metacam) right away. That should make her feel way better.

She should also be on a probiotic if she's taking an antibiotic, something like Bene-bac.

How is her appetite? What are you feeding her? She could be having trouble chewing properly which may also contribute to her GI tract issues.


sas ray:

 

[Haley]

Im so sorry to hear you are dealing with abscesses. I have had surgery for 5 of them on 3 rabbits. My Max has had 3 of those and all in his mouth. They are extremely painful for the rabbit.

Im a little confused as to what your question is. Is she grinding her pain constantly? This can be a sign of happiness and contentness but can also be a sign of pain. If she is in pain so much that she is grinding her teeth constantly, she is in bad shape. Is she on pain medication? She needs to be on Metacam at the very least, to help with the pain. Every time I talk to anyone who has had an abscess they talk about how painful they are.
Also, why the Batril? Have you talked to your vet about a stronger antibiotic like Bicillin? Rabbit abscesses wall themselves off, making it very diffficult to treat them with antibiotics. Baytril is pretty largely ineffective against an abscess.

There is a lot of great info in the libary on pain management and abscesses as well. I went through years of dealing with vets who didnt know how to treat abscesses, spending hundreds of dollars in the process, before I found the vets I use now. Sometimes looking around or finding a vet who will work with other vets is so worth it.

Please let me know if theres anything I can do to help. I know how difficult these are to deal with.

 

[Haley]

Sorry for the double info, looks like sas and I posted at the same time (but it's great we are on the same page)

 

[Acacia-Berry]

Thanks guys for the quick replies!!
She eats Martins little friends for less active adult rabbits. She has no problem eating as I've mentioned she will get lively when the food comes! ^^ As her medicine treat she gets a papaya tablet at one and raisens at the other.
As for the Baytril, I spoke to my vet about depocillin last time in January or Feb or whenever the last time was and he did a culture test and discovered her pus is equally affected by baytril as it is by every other bunny safe medicine. He told me on a long-term basis the bi-daily injectable could mess up her liver or some other organ and we decided this time to set her up on full course of baytril for 20 days and then lower the dose to keep off the infection for like 6 months. He said he did that successfully. Akina's abscesses re-occur a few months apart generally, and usually were alternating the left side then the right side.
She had metacam when she had her tooth extraction and I was scared to death because I read about negative side-effects. I choose not to disrupt too much and have her on life-support as I think that is wrong but I want to make her comfortable and provide for her best I can. Plus also, my vet is an hour away by bus and 20$ cab ride both ways- it's not something I can get up and readily go to unfortunetely :/

 

[Haley]

I use Metacam on my rabbits regularly with no side effects, as drugs go, it's very safe. She needs to be on some sort of pain medicine.

I really dont understand the vet's decision to use Baytril. The bacteria may respond to Baytril in a culture but tht does not mean the drug is strong enough to penetrate the thick walls of an abscess to get to the infection. Are there any other rabbit vets near you where you could get a second opinion? Any local rabbit rescues you could call to find another vet? I know we want to think our vet knows best but sometimes they are just not up to date on rabbit care. Even the really great vets around me are clueless with rabbits, especially abscesses.

 

[ra7751]

I hate to say this, but your vet is way off base in treating an abscess in a rabbit. There are many "tag along" bacteria found on the outside of the abscess. But that isn't the problem and if you culture that, it will lead to a very incorrect treatment as you are seeing. The real problems and what needs to be treated is the anaerobic bacteria in the core of the abscess. Baytril has never and never will be up to the task of treating a walled-off abscess. Baytril can't even treat "dime store variety" infections. I have treated manyabscesses without surgery using a combination of Pen G and Zithromax. None of the abscesses have returned. Aggressive pain meds that include an NSAID and a narcotic (or narcotic like) drug should be implemented. And 6 months of Baytril? I would like to see a blood chemistry on that one.

Randy

 

[Acacia-Berry]

Hmm, that vet is the second best on my island :/ The only one is in another city.....But they're linked together , sister vets. The vet in the other city I called and he told me he would call my vet to set me up on depocillin. He's listed on rabbit.org for my area.....:/
The vet that took Akina's teeth out are not experienced in bunnies and wanted to treat her as a cat/dog for treatment. Called the company who makes metacam to get the bunny dosage. I dont trust them for my bunnies, only on my dog.
I will call my vet tomorrow talk to him over the phone but as bad as he is to get to, I still trust him over the other vet.

 

[ra7751]

Just for info....Metacam dosing is the same regardless of species. We use a one time "loading" dose and then standard dosing for follow-ups. Hopefully this will be an opportunity for your vet to learn and he/she will take advantage.

Randy

 

[Dragonrain]

Hi Amanda!

I really hope you can get Akina on a different treatment and hopefully it will finally clear up those abscesses! I know I've been telling you this on PT for awhile, but I also agree that you really should try something other than Baytril. I know you've been dealing with this for so long, it must be frustrating to both you and Akina! Hang in there - hopefully once you get her on a better treatment things will start to look up.

 

[Acacia-Berry]

Problem now lies in getting work.. I lost my job and have been heading into pretty rough times. All I got is Baytril for now, no back up money at all No money on my phone until tomorrow if all goes well so I cannot call the vet because I dont even have a quarter to use the pay phone I will try my best to get a hold of the vet and tell him what I need.
What if I am unable to make frequent trips out there for medicine? Like I mentioned- the vet is an hour away.

 

[Haley]

Does anyone know if you can get Bicillin over the counter in Cananda? Here, you can buy it at most farm/feed stores because it is manufactured for cattle. I buy a huge bottle for $12 and it lasts forever. I give the injections myself every other day.

 

[Dragonrain]

Hmm I wonder! I know I've seen it over the counter here in the states.

Amanda, your vet should be able to teach you to give the injections yourself, so you should be able to pretty much just treat her at home. I wouldn't think you'd have to make trips to the vet any more often then you already are now.

So sorry you lost your job.