Nick had a relapse.

[BethM]

My Mr. Nick has been feeling great all week. He had a week-long battle with stasis. Two trips the vet. I learned to give sub-q fluids at home. (I only did this twice, but it seemed to help him a lot.) Fighting to get oral fluids and Reglan into him. I got virtually no sleep that week, mostly from worrying.

He was suddenly doing great. Running around a lot, eating voraciously, poops returned to normal size. He was once again my Mr. Adventure Nick. He even let me pet him a little, and was a little friendlier than he had been in a while. The first day he was doing much better, there was a *huge* amount of cecals around, as if everything just pushed through at once. The poops were *full* of hair and really stinky, but normalized after a couple days.

Then, just as suddenly, he started acting sick again. Not as bad as he was the first time, he's been at about 50% since yesterday. He's had some poops, not many, and they're small again; normal shape this time, though. He's left 3 LARGE cecals for me. (Thanks, buddy!) He has eaten a little but, but not hungrily. A munch of hay here, a munch of parsley there, a couple mouthfuls of pellets. I haven't seen him drink water, but he's never been a huge water drinker anyway. I think he does it at night.

Yesterday he got some simethicone. I just caught him again, with the intention of giving him fluids. His skin had a little bit of tenting, not too extreme, but I thought he should get some fluids. Poor guy, I got just a tiny amount in him, and he started to move around, so I took the needle out, and he bled a little. I tried to do the other side, and he flinched as the needle was going in, and I gave up. (He seemed like he was about to move around a lot.)

I put my ear to his side, and he had some good gurgling noises, not too loud. I tried some oral fluids and got about 23 cc's of water on the towel and maybe 1 into him.
I gave him a little tummy massage. His tummy felt a little tighter than normal, but not as tight as it had before. He tolerated the massage for a couple minutes before running, but didn't seem in pain.

After a little trim (the fur on his rear end mats up into "false tails"), I released him. He is now persisting in trying really hard to eat linoleum and carpet. He has fresh hay and veggies, but won't do more than nibble at them. So frustrating! I got a pineapple today, and will cut into it tomorrow, I'll see if he'll eat a little of that. I will also pick up some NutriCal tomorrow, in case his appetite gets worse.

I'm back to worrying, and on top of that I feel horrible that I made him bleed and didn't even get the fluids into him.

 

[juliew19673]

Giving Fluids/shots is one of the most horrible things to do w/an animal... You find yourself at times not finding the critter who wishes to have the injection/SubQ fluid and then all things go SOUTH.. YOU MISSED THAT INJECTION!! Realize your handling it - give it a few minutes and don't press the issue..

You just have to shake it off and try again hours or the next day (depending on tbe case). But hang in there and don't feel to bad about it..

 

[BethM]

I'm gonna try again tomorrow with the fluids. He has been hopping around tonight, and has eaten a little more. My fiance got him to eat a few pieces of parsley and cilantro, which I rinsed first so they were wet. And I filled his wire hay ball and put it where he's been spending the night, hopefully it will interest him.

He was really calm the last times I gave the fluids, even though I was shaky, everything went well. This time I was calm and he went shaky, and all didn't go as planned. He didn't seem *super* dehydrated, though, just a little.

He did beg for his bedtime raisin, though he got a teeny tiny one because he really doesn't need that sugar in a tummy that's stuck on hold. Last time, he just got parsley when Amelia got her raisin, and he could tell he wasn't getting the same thing, he ate the parsley and then sniffed and sniffed the hand that had held the raisin and then begged more. Poor guy.

I worry so much, all I want is for him to feel better. His Amelia has been no help, requesting grooming and trying to steal the few pieces of veg I can get him to take (she likes to take it out of his mouth while he's chewing)! She is so rude! I will probably find the wire ball empty tomorrow, and be so proud of him, but she will have secretly eaten it all for him. Gotta get that RabbitCam up.....

 

[AngelnSnuffy]

I wish the best for Nick!

Here's a thread from the library that might help, I'll keep looking for more for you!


GIStasis, what everyone should know

 

[Pipp]

As that article says, stasis is almost always asymptom of something else.

Was he on pain meds prior to this last bout and did his problems return once they stopped? Did he start eating foods that he hadn't been eating before?

Very oftena dental problem or other issues can be very hard to spot with a visual exam.Has he had a head x-ray?

His chewing behaviour could be a stress reaction or indicate something tooth related, I'm not sure. I hear about bunnies doing that a lot, been meaning to look into it.

What tests did they do? Did they do several fecal exams to rule out parasites? (Fecal testscan also be inconclusive).

What about a blood test to check kidney function, etc?

Hope he's feeling better soon.



sas :clover:

 

[jcl_24]

You are doing your best for him I wish Mr Nicka speedy recovery and a good night's sleep for you.

Jo xx

 

[BethM]

Pipp wrote:

As that article says, stasis is almost always asymptom of something else.

Was he on pain meds prior to this last bout and did his problems return once they stopped? Did he start eating foods that he hadn't been eating before?
Very oftena dental problem or other issues can be very hard to spot with a visual exam.Has he had a head x-ray?
His chewing behaviour could be a stress reaction or indicate something tooth related, I'm not sure. I hear about bunnies doing that a lot, been meaning to look into it.
What tests did they do? Did they do several fecal exams to rule out parasites? (Fecal testscan also be inconclusive).
What about a blood test to check kidney function, etc?
Hope he's feeling better soon.
sas :clover:

He was not on any sort of meds before the first stasis.

He did got get any type of new food. The only thing I can think of there, I got some organic dandelion greens from Whole Foods that they wouldn't eat. Normally they are Amelia's favorite, Nick and Tobi also like them. But that bunch *no one* would eat. I didn't want them to go to waste, so I sauteed them up with garlic and ended up throwing them out because they were super bitter, much more than normal, I couldn't even eat them. That was about a week before the stasis, but the other two bunnies didn't have problems, and this was a whole month ago at this point.

On his first trip to the vet, he did have both a visual tooth exam and an x-ray, the doctor said his teeth look excellent.
The first x-ray showed a small amount of gas in the lower stomach, and his stomach had something in it, just wasn't moving. The doctor said it didn't look or feel like an actual blockage. He also got sub-q fluids and a shot of Banamine.

The second x-ray showed a little less in the stomach, and no gas at all. He got sub-q fluids again this trip. The doctor didn't give Banamine this time, Nick was much more alert. I took a fecal sample this time, he had tiny teardrop shaped poops. The doctor looked at them but didn't do any tests. Also no blood tests.

Personally, I think it started from ingesting too much fur. He and Amelia had been shedding the week before the first stasis. Amelia demands a lot of grooming from him, and he grooms himself as well. Her fur isn't extraordinary, but his is about an inch and a half long, and very very thick. (He looks almost the same size as her, but weighs a half pound less.)
When the poops did start coming, some were solid masses of fur with just a thin coating of fecal matter. I found one that was barbell shaped, with a thick rope of fur in the middle. They also smelled really bad, I usually can't smell the litter box but I didn't even want to walk past it last week, it was so stinky.
I've gotten the 'string of pearls' in the past, but nothing to this degree, and his behavior wasn't off.

I am considering clipping his fur shorter to help prevent this?
Last night I trimmed the mats around his tail, he looked like he had 3 tails.

I know there's no scientific data on the papaya tablets, but a lot of people swear by them, and I don't think they can hurt. Today I'm going to call around and see if anyone has them in stock, and if not, I was going to order toys from Busy Bunny next week, anyway, I'll get them then.

I also think he doesn't drink as much water, on a regular basis, as he should. I see Amelia drink, but I rarely actually see him drink. The water bowl is usually half empty in the morning, but without that RabbitCam, I don't know how much of that he's drinking. They get fresh water everyday.

(I'm trying to get my fiance, who is in the IT field and loves anything tech, to put up a live webcam focused on the rabbit area. Combining his obsessions and mine!)

He did eat a small handful of parsley and cilantro this morning, and I did see him eat a little hay. Amelia threw a tantrum and then sulked when I hand-fed him.

I also watch how he lays to moniter how he's feeling. He has always layed down flat on his belly, with his legs kicked out, either straight back or to the side. I notice when he's not feeling well, he spends more time in a "loaf" with all his feet tucked under himself. (Oddly, the "loaf" has always been Amelia's preferred position.)

Sorry this is so long!

 

[AngelnSnuffy]

How is Nick doing?

As far as the fur ingestion, do you brush them when they're shedding? This helps tremendously to reduce ingestion, so it's a great thing to do a couple times a week when shedding or molting.

 

[BethM]

Could everyone please keep Mr. Nick in your thoughts? He's not doing so well today.

He ate some this morning, then napped all day. Normal, or mostly so. But he didn't ever come out for a snack. He didn't get up to hop when Amelia did this evening.

I did get some subq fluids in him this evening. My fiance did a poor but passable job of helping keep him calm. He got close to 50cc's, and soaked most of it up pretty quickly. The pineapple puree was too thick to do oral syringe, and he wouldn't eat it; I mashed a bit of it on the top of his paws, so he had to clean it off.

His temperature was on the low side, at 99.9, so I wrapped him in a towel/heating pad on low for 10 minutes, he got back up to normal.

Tummy massage; a few gurgles, the tummy seemed tight but not swollen or extremely hard. He didn't seem in pain or uncomfortable when I was massaging.

When I released him from The Room he ran out and then ran back in again (he usually does that, goofball!), then ran into his house to groom. I put a dish of pineapple puree in with him but he won't eat it. Will try veggies before bed.

I found a local store with Oxbow Papaya Tablets and got some today, none of the rabbits will eat them. (Amelia and Tobi like the pineapple, though.)

I will be getting up around 2 or 3 to try to give him some more simethicone. If he's not doing better by morning, I will be calling in to work so he can go to the vet. I'm supposed to have a dentist appointment tomorrow afternoon, that will have to be cancelled. I can't afford to do both and Nick is more important. (If he's not doing well when I get up at 2, I have someone I can call to help me. She's 40 minutes away, but she said I can come anytime, day or night, if Nick is in trouble. She's got fluids and medicines to help, but I pray Nick doesn't get bad enough to need emergency care.

I know I haven't been on the forum long, but please send Nick some good vibes, he really needs it right now.

 

[AngelnSnuffy]

ray:. Hope he doesn't get any worse and hope he eats for you. You could put some of the puree wrapped in a veggie to help disquise it a bit.

Poor Nick and poor you.:hug:

 

[BethM]

They've only had one major molt in the almost 2 years I've had them. They tend to shed little tufts continously. I've noticed they will shed a little more if the inside air temp gets up around 74 or so. I try to keep the temp right between 68 and 72, usually at about 70.

Neither of them like to be petted, Nick doesn't even like to be touched, so it's hard to brush them. I try to pluck the tufts at banana time, in the morning, when they're too busy eating to care. Catching either of them for any reason requires a good deal of chasing them around the whole apartment with a towel, ready to throw it like a net, or herd them where they need to be.

They both have this phobia, and they were already at the shelter, I suspect their original "home" had someone who handled them roughly. Amelia will sometimes be in the mood to be petted, and will relax and purr, but when she's done she's done. Nick does not allow it at all. I do what I can.



AngelnSnuffy wrote:

How is Nick doing?

As far as the fur ingestion, do you brush them when they're shedding? This helps tremendously to reduce ingestion, so it's a great thing to do a couple times a week when shedding or molting.

 

[AngelnSnuffy]

Oh, poor things. I bet they are skittish then. Sounds like you're doing a great job with them! Maybe at some point you could just use a brush on them and not hold them, just be near them enough to do it? That would work.

Best of luck with Nick!

 

[BethM]

Just a quick update on Mr. Nick.

Last night before bed I got him to eat a few pieces of parsley. He also took the piece of mint that I randomly put in the bowl, that was the first thing he grabbed. I am surprised, neither rabbit would eat mint last summer. (I grow mint, basil, oregano, rosemary, and thyme in pots on my deck to use in cooking.)

I got up at 3am to give him some simethicone, he fought back quite a bit. I think he was angry at being awakened in the night.

He ate some more veggies this morning, and was munching on a little bit of hay.

I found an long, oblong-shaped poop in the area he hangs out in. (Amelia never leaves poops outside the litter box, Nick likes to mark his area.)

He did come out to hop, briefly, this morning.

Eating and hopping not as much as I would like. But he hasn't gotten worse. Just trying to keep him hydrated and everything moving.



I leave work at 2:30 today, dentist at 3:30. That gives me time to stop at home to check on him, and give him more simethicone and a little tummy massage. If he's not doing well at that point, I'll take him into the vet. My vet is open until 8 tonight.

I will also get the NutriCal, and see if he likes that.

Things Nick does not like, voluntarily or by oral syringe, include: Pedialyte; water (syringed); Ensure (strawberry flavor); canned pumpkin; baby food squash; pineapple (whole and pureed); Oxbow papaya tablets (whole); pellet food made into a mush with water.

He has never been this picky of an eater.

 

[Elf Mommy]

I'm keeping Nick in my thoughts. I'm sorry he's having such a hard time.

 

[BethM]

Thanks to everyone for the kind words and thoughts.

Nick seems a little better today. I gave him more simethicone this afternoon, he fought back a lot. He seems to fight much more mid-day and mid-night, when he's been woken up.
By the time I released him, he was breathing so hard, and his heart was racing, poor guy!
He has learned my trick of smearing stuff on the tops of his front paws, and will tuck them under himself so I can't reach them.


Tonight he was a lot better than he was last night. He came out and layed down in the open, feet kicked out.

He also ate some pellets, some veggies, and a good amount of hay. He chose to eat mint again, maybe he can tell it is good for his tummy. Miss Amelia is behind him, she decided he needed a dinner date.

And....I got poops! (Well, Nick got poops.) Full-sized, not as many as usual, but I found 4 strung together. I broke open one of them, and found the mat of hair again. Here's a photo (I hope it's ok to post a photo of a poop, if not, sorry!) This was the contents of 2 of the 4 poops. Just like last time, they were really really stinky. Some white hair, some orangey-brown hair.

I did not see him drink water, so he got the oral syringe. I put a splash of apple juice (pure juice, no sugar or additives) into a cup of water, and got some of that in him. He still didn't like it, I think at this point if there's a syringe in his face he doesn't want anything to do with it. (I tried putting a dish of this out next to the water bowl, he sniffed it and then tried to push it away with his mouth.)

I know the juice has some sugar in it, but it was diluted, and I know there's definately some movement now. Plus, most of the other things I've been told to try giving him have sugars, too. And he did eat more today than he has since Thursday. I'm letting him rest now until bedtime, I will try to give him more parsley when Amelia gets her raisin.

I feel a bit better about him tonight, since he seems to have shown improvement. I know he's not out of the woods yet.
Maybe the hardest part is that he was doing *so well* for most of last week. He was running and exploring and eating like crazy. I want my Mr. Adventure Nick back!


Oh, and add NutriCal to the list of things he won't eat. I've got a whole box full of "things a sick bunny might eat" that he won't touch.
Is there a way I can get him to maybe try a Papaya tablet? I think these could be helpful for him with this hair ingestion, but I don't know if he'll eat them.

And sorry again that this is so long!

 

[Marietta]

Hi!

I'm glad Nick seems better. Eating, even a little bit, is very important to keep his GI tract moving. Wet all the veggies you give him, in this way he'll get some extra moisture in his intestines. Drinking water is very essensial, if you think that fruit flavoured water would encourage him to drink, do it.

Papaya's enzume is said to dissolve keratein, i.e. the hair ingested, but this has not been scientifically proved. If you want to try papaya tablets anyway, why don't you try to dissolve them in the juice he drinks or put some in a tiny slice of non-sugary fruit? Whould he touch it?

Oh, I think that posting the photo showing how a poop containing strands of hair looks is very educating to members who have not seen one, so this could help them know what to notice in a poop in cases or fur ingestion.

Marietta

 

[BethM]

I saw Nick drink some water tonight! Hooray!! He also ate some veggies this morning, and has eaten lots of hay and pellets tonight! I am hoping he's back on the road to recovery, and doesn't slip back again.
I will keep giving him the simethicone for a couple days, and keep watching him. I am a little wary, since he seemed like he was "recovered" last week and then stopped eating again. I will also be watching to make sure he stays hydrated.

I know the papaya thing hasn't been proven. I also know a lot of people who swear by them. I figure they can't hurt, as long as they're given in moderation. I am going to try to switch them over to the papaya tablets instead of raisins before bed, if I can get anybunny to try them. (If not, I'll use them. I get the GNC brand tablets for myself, and am always amazed at how welll they can calm my tummy. Could be psychological, I guess, but they help. These Oxbow ones look ok for me to eat if the bunnies won't.)

I think if he starts to have a big molt at any point, I may trim his fur, too, so that what he's eating is at least shorter and maybe easier to pass. I will also try to keep him plucked regularly. Neither bunny likes a lot of petting or brushing.

I just hope he can stay on the right track this time.

 

[AngelnSnuffy]

Glad to hear he's doing good! Whoohoo! I'm so happy to hear it! Yay, Nick!

 

[Marietta]

Hi, Beth!

How's Nick doing these past two days? Are his poops back to normal? Hope they are!

Marietta

 

[BethM]

Thanks for asking, he seems to be doing better still. He's eating like crazy and seems to be pooping. There is still a lot of hair in the poops, so I'm still watching him pretty closely. I've seen him drinking water, and he seems more relaxed than he was. I'm hesitant to say he's all better, I thought that before!

While he was sick, I replaced his bedtime raisin with wet parsley. Now that he's feeling better I've replaced that with a bit of pineapple. He wouldn't eat that while he was sick, but now he snatches it and eats it right up. He also can't get enough spearmint (which he wouldn't touch last summer), so maybe that's helping, as well.

And last night he felt well enough to........express his love for his lady friend. (Well, he tried, but she just ran away, as usual. Poor guy.)

Thanks so much for the kind words!