New to buns... is this an acceptable cage?

[dixonsrabbitry1]

OakRidgeRabbits wrote:

Korr_and_Sophie wrote:

Generally, wire bottoms are not recommended.

Depends who you talk to. I prefer wire bottoms because I've found that they keep the rabbit cleaner and also provide more air flow to the bunny. Especially with a Holland Lop or Jersey Wooly, which are breeds that have well furred feet- the wire would not bother them.

The picture of the original cage did not come up for me, so I'm not sure how it was otherwise. But I'd recommend at least a 24"x24" cage for either a Holland Lop or a Jersey Wooly.

Lol I garee with this. there is nothing wrong with them, and my rabbits are pretty clean on them. rarely an issue with them. I can walk into my barn at any time and see bunnies sprawled out in their cages everywhere. Liek ooooh yeah, comfy .

 

[irishbunny]

This thread is kind of old guys

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

Ah, I only saw the July 6th reply and went with it. lol

 

[Lucy123]

I would have to disagree! Although I could be wrong....

As far as I know long term use of wire bottoms will cause sore hocks, where the fur wears away and the skin becomes inflammed, it also risks nails becoming caught so it is important to maintain the length of their nails often. Can a rabbit run on wire, like it does on carpet? No. This is a restricting surface, uncomfortable, and in some cases can cause minor injuries.

It is also more difficult for the rabbit to consume his or her cecotropes since...they fall through the wire! Cecotropes are an essential part of their diet, and if their sitting over wire while tryign to eat them, that is a difficult task.

But even if you put all of this aside, and say it is all false, then those who think wire bottoms are an acceptable way to house your rabbit just for a moment : ) ...envision yourself living in a cage with wire flooring, most likely you will be in it for certain parts of the day, and most likely all night for atleast 8 hours until your owner wakes up and lets you out. Do you think it would be comfortable to stretch out for hours at a time with your stomach against wire? Or sitting like a bump on a log on wire for hours at a time?

I think it is pure common sense, that since rabbits as well as cats can be potty trained, whynot train themso they inturn use a litter box and you dont have to worry about what cage you use!This gives the rabbit freedom as well as you because it is so much easier to live with a rabbit when trained. We don't leave our dogs or cats on wire cages, we dont even do that when their kittens and puppies and were taining them,the stores do not sell wire cages for hamsters, or even mice! Even these 20 ounce rodents have flat bottoms with soft shavings to sit on!

I don't know anyonewhoallows theredogs to sit on wire, their cats,or any rodent such as hamsters, ferrets, or even mice to sit on wire, it's important to realize that rabbits deserve the time you put to train your dog or cat to eliminate where you want it to, andpotty train your rabbit to a litter box. This way your rabbit has the freedom it deserves and needs, just as the other common household animal.

It is also important to realize that stores/pet industryhave clouded most minds into believing just the opposite about rabbits, that they can live in a compact cages, sit on wire or pine shavings all day and your good to go. Well this is how they make money and unfortunately it works! And if you can you should always make a point to the store manager or assistant that you know better.

Anyway these were my thoughts to someone who mentioned wire is an acceptable alternative!

Good luck with your cage!

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

Lucy123 wrote:

I would have to disagree! Although I could be wrong....

As far as I know long term use of wire bottoms will cause sore hocks, where the fur wears away and the skin becomes inflammed, it also risks nails becoming caught so it is important to maintain the length of their nails often. Can a rabbit run on wire, like it does on carpet? No. This is a restricting surface, uncomfortable, and in some cases can cause minor injuries.

It is also more difficult for the rabbit to consume his or her cecotropes since...they fall through the wire! Cecotropes are an essential part of their diet, and if their sitting over wire while tryign to eat them, that is a difficult task.

But even if you put all of this aside, and say it is all false, then those who think wire bottoms are an acceptable way to house your rabbit just for a moment : ) ...envision yourself living in a cage with wire flooring, most likely you will be in it for certain parts of the day, and most likely all night for atleast 8 hours until your owner wakes up and lets you out. Do you think it would be comfortable to stretch out for hours at a time with your stomach against wire? Or sitting like a bump on a log on wire for hours at a time?

I think it is pure common sense, that since rabbits as well as cats can be potty trained, whynot train themso they inturn use a litter box and you dont have to worry about what cage you use!This gives the rabbit freedom as well as you because it is so much easier to live with a rabbit when trained. We don't leave our dogs or cats on wire cages, we dont even do that when their kittens and puppies and were taining them,the stores do not sell wire cages for hamsters, or even mice! Even these 20 ounce rodents have flat bottoms with soft shavings to sit on!

I don't know anyonewhoallows theredogs to sit on wire, their cats,or any rodent such as hamsters, ferrets, or even mice to sit on wire, it's important to realize that rabbits deserve the time you put to train your dog or cat to eliminate where you want it to, andpotty train your rabbit to a litter box. This way your rabbit has the freedom it deserves and needs, just as the other common household animal.

It is also important to realize that stores/pet industryhave clouded most minds into believing just the opposite about rabbits, that they can live in a compact cages, sit on wire or pine shavings all day and your good to go. Well this is how they make money and unfortunately it works! And if you can you should always make a point to the store manager or assistant that you know better.

Anyway these were my thoughts to someone who mentioned wire is an acceptable alternative!

Good luck with your cage!

Jusat because someone choses to use a different method to house their rabbits doesn't make it wrong. Just different. I currently have about 30 bunnies all flopped out and comfortably relaxing in their all wire cages at the moment. Seldom any isses with sore hocks. In fact the whole sore hocks thing is pretty much a myth. The only time a rabbit will get sore hocks is when its ill. the breed is prone to it, or its back toenails need to be trimmed. Most of us that use wire cages seldom see any issues with it. Rabbits are also prone to getting sore hocks on solid floors and carpeting too. More so then wire cages. Most rabbits are bred to have very thick foot pads to handle the wire better. A well cared for rabbit will put very little pressure on the back hocks. So the wire won't bother them that much. Some of us place mats in the cage for the bunny to sit on. Some will use them, some won't.

You can potty train pet rabbits that will never make it to the show tables. But with show animals(both pets and breeders) its an entirely different story. You take chances of the animal sitting in its own feces, and soiling itself. Either way a rabbitw ith a very messy bottom is not fun to clean up after.

My bunnies have no problems eating their cecetropes. I see them eating them all the time when I am in the barn in the evenings.

As pointed out above, this topic was old, and yeah I was responding to the july 6 message too! LOL. each person is going to have their own way of keeping their animals. Whether you chose to use a solid floor, or a wire cage, either way is fine, and a very accepted method to use. (BTW I also use pine on my rabbits too, and have never had a single issue with it. I don't know of anyone else that has either).

 

[Lucy123]

Nice argument! However....

I have an opinion based on being a pet owner NOT a pet breeder or someone who shows rabbits for a living. I will agree that I have never met a person in the pet industry/breeders/etc that use litter boxes. Why? Because they have to many of them! It would be near impossible, there would be so much work involved to train that many rabbits and not to mention the money that would be spent on litter boxes and what not.

From a breeders standpoint, it is convienent for YOU to use the wire system, but this is a given and Im sure agreed throughout.

I however am a pet owner, whose animals live inside, around the family, not in a barn where it is simply wire cage after wire cage stacked. This is my perspective, and I am comparing a rabbit no less intelligent or equal to that of your other common household animals such as dogs, cats, hamsters, ferrets, or even mice!

So I am NOT against wire cages BECAUSE it is a different method... I did not say this, I gave valid reasons of why not to use wire, and why rabbits should not be considered "lower" (intelligence or physcial needs wise,) then the dog or cat in a house.

I also do not understand what your saying at the end...animals soil themselves from sitting in their own mess? If the owner is a responsible one, and this should be the only case, then the litter is changed on a daily basis, common sense. A litter box is in one corner of the cage that the rabbit knows to hop into...eliminate...hop out...period. Also don't forget that rabbits view their ellimination as clean, it's more us humans that find it...well dirty and isgusting! Now an owner who allows a rabbits cage to be its entire litter box with shaving across the whole bottom, THEN I would see your point, because a rabbit would be forced to sit or lay in it's own ellimination, other then this I am unsure of what your saying.

Again your coming from the standpoint on what works best or what doesn't for someone who shows or breeds. I am in no way part of this industry so I don't argue with the basis of what is convienent for the owner, I argue from the standpoint of the rabbit.

If I ask myself what will benefit a rabbit here is what I come up with:

Does a rabbit need exercise? YES

Does a rabbit need a large cage? YES

Can a rabbit be potty trained? YES

Does a rabbit need exercise outside of it's cage? YES

If a PET rabbit lives on a wire cage, is this potty trained? No

If a pet rabbit lives on a wire cage, cage I let him out and run in my room? No

If my rabbit is caged on wire, why can't I let him out and run in my room? Because he is not trained to go in a letter box, and will most likely elliminate in my room while out.

Doesn't this mean he can't come out for exercise then? YES

So my point, if you promote wire caging for pet rabbits inside the house, you cannot promote free-roam, and exercise at the same time. You are limiting a pet rabbits activities by NOT TRAINING him.

If a rabbit is trained to a litter box, you will not mind letting him roam outside of his cage to explore your room, because you know he will return to his cage, hop in his box, elliminate and then continue on exploring. It is as simple as that! Do we as owners train our cats when their kittens? Our dogs when their puppies? Of course! Did we allow them to sit on wire even during training? Of course not! Do you know of anyone who places there ferret/mouse/hamster on wire? No their on flat flooring with fluffy bedding.

Why treat a rabbit any different then the dog or cat? Cats are lazy, they need sleep, where as the rabbits, well rabbits have a need for speed LOL exercise is key to fill this need.

If you can give a valid argument on why rabbits are the only animals stores and owners can justify placing on wire then I will give you two thumbs up! LOL

But I would appreciate not from the breeders standpoint because that is a business, but from a pet owners standpoint who usually has your traditional cat or dog and decides to invest in asmall animal such as a rabbit. Sure there are many different methods, and I have seen some really great methods, and some very poor methods to caring for any animal. It's what is the best method for a pet, and Im sure youd agree (possible) that those awnsers will be in a forum like this, not from your averagepet store stock boy or cashier person. There is wrong methods, and it is good to point them out to those who are looking for the right methods.

Anyway,

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

Lucy123 wrote:

Nice argument! However....

I have an opinion based on being a pet owner NOT a pet breeder or someone who shows rabbits for a living. I will agree that I have never met a person in the pet industry/breeders/etc that use litter boxes. Why? Because they have to many of them! It would be near impossible, there would be so much work involved to train that many rabbits and not to mention the money that would be spent on litter boxes and what not.

From a breeders standpoint, it is convienent for YOU to use the wire system, but this is a given and Im sure agreed throughout.

I however am a pet owner, whose animals live inside, around the family, not in a barn where it is simply wire cage after wire cage stacked. This is my perspective, and I am comparing a rabbit no less intelligent or equal to that of your other common household animals such as dogs, cats, hamsters, ferrets, or even mice!

So I am NOT against wire cages BECAUSE it is a different method... I did not say this, I gave valid reasons of why not to use wire, and why rabbits should not be considered "lower" (intelligence or physcial needs wise,) then the dog or cat in a house.

I also do not understand what your saying at the end...animals soil themselves from sitting in their own mess? If the owner is a responsible one, and this should be the only case, then the litter is changed on a daily basis, common sense. A litter box is in one corner of the cage that the rabbit knows to hop into...eliminate...hop out...period. Also don't forget that rabbits view their ellimination as clean, it's more us humans that find it...well dirty and isgusting! Now an owner who allows a rabbits cage to be its entire litter box with shaving across the whole bottom, THEN I would see your point, because a rabbit would be forced to sit or lay in it's own ellimination, other then this I am unsure of what your saying.

Again your coming from the standpoint on what works best or what doesn't for someone who shows or breeds. I am in no way part of this industry so I don't argue with the basis of what is convienent for the owner, I argue from the standpoint of the rabbit.

If I ask myself what will benefit a rabbit here is what I come up with:

Does a rabbit need exercise? YES

Does a rabbit need a large cage? YES

Can a rabbit be potty trained? YES

Does a rabbit need exercise outside of it's cage? YES

If a PET rabbit lives on a wire cage, is this potty trained? No

If a pet rabbit lives on a wire cage, cage I let him out and run in my room? No

If my rabbit is caged on wire, why can't I let him out and run in my room? Because he is not trained to go in a letter box, and will most likely elliminate in my room while out.

Doesn't this mean he can't come out for exercise then? YES

So my point, if you promote wire caging for pet rabbits inside the house, you cannot promote free-roam, and exercise at the same time. You are limiting a pet rabbits activities by NOT TRAINING him.

If a rabbit is trained to a litter box, you will not mind letting him roam outside of his cage to explore your room, because you know he will return to his cage, hop in his box, elliminate and then continue on exploring. It is as simple as that! Do we as owners train our cats when their kittens? Our dogs when their puppies? Of course! Did we allow them to sit on wire even during training? Of course not! Do you know of anyone who places there ferret/mouse/hamster on wire? No their on flat flooring with fluffy bedding.

Why treat a rabbit any different then the dog or cat? Cats are lazy, they need sleep, where as the rabbits, well rabbits have a need for speed LOL exercise is key to fill this need.

If you can give a valid argument on why rabbits are the only animals stores and owners can justify placing on wire then I will give you two thumbs up! LOL

But I would appreciate not from the breeders standpoint because that is a business, but from a pet owners standpoint who usually has your traditional cat or dog and decides to invest in asmall animal such as a rabbit. Sure there are many different methods, and I have seen some really great methods, and some very poor methods to caring for any animal. It's what is the best method for a pet, and Im sure youd agree (possible) that those awnsers will be in a forum like this, not from your averagepet store stock boy or cashier person. There is wrong methods, and it is good to point them out to those who are looking for the right methods.

Anyway,

And so am I. I have kept both house rabbits as pets, and breeding rabbits(also have som eof those as pets). So my point of view is coming from both ways, because they both work to benefit the owner and the animal. There is no one true way to house rabbit as long as its happy and healthy.

I don't breed show rabbits for a living. No breeder does. Rabbits are not money makers, and showing is a just a hobby. It is not a business. The breeder point of view shouldn't be shot down, or looked down on either, because we do things differently and have a different point of view then a pet owner that keeps a lot of house rabbits would. Although its different, its still an acceptable (and very humane) way to keep a rabbit, albeit breeder or pet. That doesn't mean the animal is viewed any less then a cat or dog is. I wouldn't cage my cat or dog, but then again I wouldn't let rabbits run around in my house either. caged, yes. Again, different.

Rabbits can easily soil themselves in a litter box. doesn't matter if its changed every day, several ties a day, or once a every could of days, the thing is they can do it. Urine stains are not fun to get out of a white(or colored) coat. Thats not saying you shouldn't use a litter box. Just one thing to consider when using them.

I don't know what oyu mean by the pet store comment. I don't deal with, nor buy my cages at pet shops, and even those are considered 'tiny' by pet owner standards. most looking to house a rabbit in cage go to a rabbit cage vendor or places like tractor supply that carry the right sized cages for rabbits. Most the pet shops where I am at carry large guinea pig cages. No itty bitty wire cages that you are talking about.

 

[mistyjr]

There is one breeder on here that I remeber seeing there cages with litter boxes in them. I dont remeber which person it was. I have to look it up.

But yes, I like wire cages more then the solid. I have a solid cage and hate it very much. Its harder to clean.. I love my black cage that I got from the farm store. Its haves a tray so you can pull it out and spray the tray down with the hose. And the rabbits dont even sleep or stand in there own poo. Like my solid cage did. I hated it with a passion..

 

[mistyjr]

And I also have 2 pet rabbits too. They arent used for breeding or showing. They are just pets.

 

[mistyjr]

And this isnt true either. Ferret are also kept on wire cages just like Chinchillas are too. They make wire cage for them also.

http://www.cagestore.com/pd_the_ferret_highrise_galvanizeddropin.cfm

http://www.buycages.com/cages.php

But mice and other rodents arent kept on wire cages. But there is some that are kept on wire cages.


Lucy123 wrote:

! Do you know of anyone who places there ferret/mouse/hamster on wire?

 

[Lucy123]

This argument, I unfortunatley cannot give 2 thumbs up!

Your not acknowleding 3/4 of what I have said.

How does caging your pet rabbit on wire flooring encourage outside time in the owners home?

If your going to train your dog, and your cat, why would you not promote training a rabbit, more so then you would caging it to wire?

I believe rabbits activities are limited if you cage it on wire flooring, in the sense that because exercise is a top requirement that an owner has to allow a rabbit to do, placing it on wire flooring restricts it to just that, sitting on wire.

You cannot let a rabbit roam your room or home, if it is not potty trained, bottom line. It will go to the nearest corner and urinate and defecate

Like I said give me a valid argument explaining how not potty training your rabbit, and exercise go hand in hand. And you will have your two thumbs up LOL

Give me a valid argument explaining how rabbits do not deserve the same time and effort an owner puts into training their dogs and cats, I agree there are many methods Ill give you that, but shouldnt the goal be to promote the best method for the rabbit? We humans are irrelevant, if we are going to purchase or rescue an animal, then it is our sole responsibility to implement the BEST solution to care for it, otherwise if we have to comprimise their well being so it is more convienent for us, then we should not have purchased or adopted the animal in the first place.

So a valid argument on how restricting the rabbit by not potty training it, in turn meaning no exercise outside of the cage and in the room, is beneficial to the rabbit as you've claimed...

If you don't train a dog, where must it remain? Caged

If you don't train a cat, where must it remain? Caged

If you trained all the above and the third most popular pet in the country now, that is rabbits, where can they go? Anywhere and everywhere!

Is this not the BEST possible solution that should be promoted? Sure there are other methods but compared to freedom outside of their habitats, I do not believe it gets any better then this.

Oh and as for the pet store remark, I am referring to the national chains and any mom and pop joint, they claim their animal specialists on staff but all they have is talking points to give you regarding care of the animal. Most do not know how to identify sex, or even know the age. That goes across the board, the pet industry is a money making industry if you want to label it something different you may, but they do not have the animal in mind, their main goal is to sell the idea and product, and they succeed at it as it a billion dollor market. However when you take a look at the rescues across the nation, this only reflects on the pet stores and breeders selling the animals to the customers, and of course the owners themselves.

So in my personal opinion, it is important to figure out the BEST method that should be implemented in taking care of certain animals, and to educate others who are uneducated completely on the care of a certain animal, and in this forum rabbits!

Thanks : )

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree without turning this into a nasty breeder vrs pet owner vrs solid floor vhs wire floor caging debate, without shoving our views down each others throats. You have your experiences, we have ours. Please allow us to have our say and to share ours. There is no one true way to house your rabbit as long as its happy, clean, and healthy. There is nothing wrong housing them on wire or solid floors, since both ways work. Nobody said that rabbits kept in wire cages don't get out to get exercise. Rabbits can get plenty of it when housed both ways(or even allowed time out of the cage!). This will be my last comment since it is an old topic, and we are just beating a dead horse.

 

[NorthernAutumn]

Wow! Can we say "Dead Thread" ???? LOL!
Try not to keep these golden oldies going, guys... gets a bit confusing for everyone involved

****

Well thought out arguments from many folks here!

Both wire and solid bottom cages can be appropriately used, as long as breed requirements, size, exercise time, litterbox skills, alternate surface availability and cleanliness are taken into account.

Suffice it to say, there are plenty of ways to keep rabbits comfortably. Each system has its pros and cons. This discussion has covered those points well.

No need for an owner vs. breeder bash to break out - we're all here for the rabbits :brownbunny
Time to let this thread die a graceful death...:big wink:

 

[Sweetie]

To clear up any confusion: pet store rabbit cages are for the small breed rabbits. I have two small rabbits and I have two cages from petsmart. One has a wire bottom, you can see part of it in my avatar, and the other has a solid bottom. Both cages work really good. I like the wire bottom because it is easier to clean.

Lucy123: a rabbit can be out of its cage especially when not potty trained. A rabbit will eliminate in one spot all the time, not in multiple spots. You can train a rabbit to use its cage as a big litterbox, although it is a lot harder than training a rabbit to use a litter box. So in traing the rabbit to use the cage as a huge litter box, the rabbit can be out of its cage.

Also a rabbit will let you know where it will eliminate all the time and that is where you put the litter box. You cannot just pick a spot and tell the rabbit this is where to potty and expect them to go in that spot that YOU chose.

I agree that rabbits need exercise and mine get a lot of exercise when I am home and when I am awake.

Some rabbits cannot be free range 24/7 because they will chew on things like carpet and wires, even when you give them what they can chew on.

 

[Lucy123]

Well I think at a certain point it's always agreeable amongst everyone to agree to disagree!

Thanks and have a good weekend : )

 

[Myia09]

mistyjr wrote:

And this isnt true either. Ferret are also kept on wire cages just like Chinchillas are too. They make wire cage for them also.

Lucy123 wrote:

! Do you know of anyone who places there ferret/mouse/hamster on wire?

Sorry Peg to contuine this..



But wire is NOT OKAY FOR CHINCHILLAS!!!!!!

Def not okay.


Editing: I guess this topic can be debated like rabbits..however chinchillas feets are more sensative and all owners/breeders provide tile to get off the wire. But I don't agree with wire caging at all..no matter what species.

 

[Synesthetic Soul]

Wow this thread saved me! I went and got 4 boxes of these storage cubes to make a play pen fur bunny.

Since he's really small now, his current cage is good for housing, but me and the mister agree he needs a nice, safe playpen.

 

[NorthernAutumn]

Aww! Hope we get to see pictures of the new little one.
Glad this discussion helped in your decision making!

Thanks for a lovely ending to this thread