New member- no rabbits yet, just questions!

[Calico]

Hi all! As the title says, I don't have any rabbits yet, I'm just trying to gather information so far. I've been doing all kinds of research, but I wanted to get a few specific answers from people who really know what they're talking about! I've fallen in love with the lionheads, and wanted to try having a house rabbit.

Does anyone here have lionheads who can tell me about their personalities? I've heard both that they're calm and docile, and that they're hyper and energetic. Obviously it's going to depend on each individual, but in general, what do their personalities tend towards? I was at the pet store for aquarium supplies last weekend and they had some baby satins. They were so calm and sweet, and the urge to impulse buy was strong....but I don't want a rabbit that's going to get that big. I wasn't sure if the satins' calm temperaments were a breed trait or if any rabbit that's handled and socialized would behave the same.

Next question is the cage. I like *this one* . Is it an adequate size for a single lionhead?

What kind of hay feeders does everyone like best? And for pellets, is it better to get a feeder that hangs on the side of the cage or just use a dish? I'd rather get good recommendations from the start than buy all kinds of flashy pretty supplies that turn out to not be very functional

I think the last question for now is pellets. Right now I'm leaning towards the Sherwood Forest pellets, although I was under the impression that rabbits shouldn't have too much alfalfa hay, which is that pellet's first ingredient. I know Oxbow is supposed to be good but their ingredient list seems to include a lot of by-product and filler. Everything else I've looked at so far is even worse. Any input?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Azerane]

Cage size is quite relative and a lot of personal preference. I always suggest to get the largest cage you can afford that will fit in the space you have. You have to consider that the cage won't just be housing your rabbit, but also, litter tray, hiding box, food and water dish, plus a couple of toys. If your rabbit is going to be spending most of the day free-ranging, then a smaller cage is not so bad, however if you work 8 hours a day and your bunny might only get 2-3 hours out a day, then bigger is certainly better. In my opinion, that cage is not big enough, I'd be looking at least 47 inches long, and you'd want it a little bit taller as well, so that your rabbit can stretch all the way up or sit up and periscope. But again, if your rabbit is going to be having large amount of time out, you can get away with a smaller cage.

As for other accessories, you'll want a heavy ceramic dish for the water bowl, you can do the same for the food bowl, I've never used a feeder. I use a lightweight metal bowl for food, but it can get tossed around and food can get spilled quite easily, still it works for Bandit. Some rabbits need heavy ceramic food bowls too.

As for pellets, there's a great table here: http://www.therabbithouse.com/diet/rabbit-food-comparison.asp that compares brand. I know people do use Sherwood Forest and they are a good brand, the problem with alfalfa is the calcium I believe, but as long as it's at the right ratio it tends to not be an issue. I feed oxbow, but it's the only brand of pellet I can find in this country that isn't alfalfa based. I'm not sure which of those on the list are available in the USA and which aren't, some might be UK brands.

 

[Calico]

Wow, what an absolutely fantastic chart! Thank you, that pellet brand table is more than I would have hoped to find! Actually that whole site looks like a great resource; I'm surprised I didn't see it before now!

Thank you for the input on the cage size as well. I do work full time, so the rabbit would be spending a good part of the day in its cage. Space is an issue inside the house, so I can't have anything too huge. However, I do have a nice safe, fenced part of the backyard in a shady location that could accommodate a hutch. Would it stress a rabbit to be outside during the day and come in at night? I will continue looking at other indoor cage options as well. I had also thought of putting an ex-pen around the cage to increase space, but I have cats, so it would have to have some sort of lid, and I'm not sure that's feasible.

Do you have issues with spillage when using a ceramic bowl for water? I was a little worried a fluffy breed like a lionhead may get its mane wet with a water bowl and cause matting. I know angoras aren't supposed to have bowls, but then again, a lionhead isn't an angora

 

[TacoBunny]

My rabbit loves to fling his ceramic bowl with his food all over the place, but he doesn't move the water at all. It's either because with the water it's too heavy or he just knows he'd get wet and doesn't bother (he jumped in it once by accident and learnt he doesn't like getting wet). Whatever you use for the bottom of the cage should be absorbent anyway, so if there was a spillage it shouldn't be too much of a problem. They also clean themselves ALL the time, so any water in long fur I'm sure they'd lick out

As Azerane has said, that cage doesn't look big enough. I too debated whether to get a shop bought one for ease, but instead I ended up making the cage myself with metal storage cubes (that can be made into any shape held together with lots of cable ties), a replacement dog crate tray (giant size), a vet bet and bulldog clips to hold the door shut. (see picture). The whole thing plus all the toys, tunnel, bowls cost less than one shop bought cage. So it's worth considering It's also MASSIVE. I can fit inside it and so can my boyfriend. Ultimately the bigger the cage the more happy they're going to be, the more chilled they'll be and you wont have to worry about bar chewing or frustration in the night because they can bumble about. Tunnels also help!

As for breeds and their personality, I was led to believe that mini lops are docile but my bun is forever moving around. This may be because he's very young and interested in everything right now, but I think he also has a very adventurous personality so, yeah it's the individual that determines what they're going to be like. Which i know isn't very helpful, i was asking the same question not long ago, just look out for what they're all doing /how they're behaving when you pick one.

 

[missyscove]

Hi and welcome to RO!

I agree with the recommendation of the largest cage that you can fit in your space. I use a 42 inch dog crate that I've added a shelf to for my pair of buns and they're in there when they're alone or I'm asleep and get to run around when I'm home and awake. The bar spacing can be a bit wide if you're worried about cats but I've seen people put a finer mesh over the wire to keep kitty paws out.
Something like this one will give you more space for the same price. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3307+10627+24437&pcatid=24437

I used laundry shelves and a particle board shelf from home depot zip tied to wooden dowels to make my shelf with a big cutting board for the side shelf.
View attachment 6144

I like ceramic crocks for food and I like to offer both a water bottle and a bowl. I've transitioned lately to these 0.5 gallon gravity waterers which I like because I know they have plenty of water.

As for the personality, my usual recommendation is to adopt an adult, already spayed/neutered rabbit from a shelter or rescue if you want to know what their personality is like. I'm not sure what part of California you're in, but I've personally adopted from Los Angeles Animal Services, Ventura County Animal Services and Bunny Bunch and had great experiences with all of those organizations. I'm also a fan of having a bonded pair and adopting a pair is easier than bonding them yourself so consider the option of having two (or three) rabbits instead of just one.

I personally feed Oxbow's adult pellet. I know Sherwood's original formulation suggested feeding only their pellet and not supplementing with hay which I wasn't a fan of at all, but I've never fed it to my own rabbits. I've always been happy with oxbow. I feel my rabbits do well on it and I like them as a company because I feel like every product they make is a great product and I know they have great educational resources as well. I can't say that for some of the other companies that make pellets.
If you have a young rabbit, an alfalfa-base is appropriate as they're still growing but adult rabbits should be on a grass hay based pellet with grass hay and ideally also greens.

 

[Azerane]

Space is an issue inside the house, so I can't have anything too huge. However, I do have a nice safe, fenced part of the backyard in a shady location that could accommodate a hutch. Would it stress a rabbit to be outside during the day and come in at night? I will continue looking at other indoor cage options as well.

Do you have issues with spillage when using a ceramic bowl for water? I was a little worried a fluffy breed like a lionhead may get its mane wet with a water bowl and cause matting. I know angoras aren't supposed to have bowls, but then again, a lionhead isn't an angora

The space issue is where multi-level cages become valuable. While you still need horizontal hopping space, you can almost double the space they have by adding an extra level. I also built Bandit's cage out of storage cubes held together with cable ties, plus plywood flooring etc. I spent quite a bit on mine, but it can be done cheaply and you can build it to fit the space that you have, put doors where it's convenient for you etc. Regarding being outside during the day and inside at night, I wouldn't recommend it, rabbits overheat easily in summer, and in winter when they get a thick coat for outside, they could be too warm inside overnight. It's best if they're one or the other.

I had not thought about the issue with the lion head mane and a bowl of water, in which case a bottle might work better, though of course some rabbits don't know how to use them and they're a bit slow for letting water out but they work well enough.

 

[Calico]

Thank you for all the helpful replies so far, everyone!

TacoBunny, I like your setup! I like that it looks neat like a store-bought cage but bigger and customizable. Also your little fluffball is adorable Where do you get the dog crate trays? I was at the pet store again (aquarium supplies, again!) and was petting the bunnies again while I was there. The lady running the store started talking rabbits with me, and she said the mini lops were her favorite in terms of personality. Made me think of your post and your little bunny!

How are the custom cages if/when you have to move them around? One thing I liked about the pet store cage I linked was that it was self-contained and had wheels, so if I had to move it for whatever reason it wouldn't be difficult. With the wire cube cages, they look like they might collapse or distort if picked up and moved.

Missycove, thank you for the picture of your setup! That gives me another option to consider. I do like how you have your cage set up as well. I'm down in Santa Barbara County. There are a few bunny rescues around here. I haven't seen anything on the rescue websites that catches my eye yet, but keeping my options open right now. I'm not really looking for a bunny because I want a rabbit and any one will do, I'm looking for a bunny because I fell in love with a specific breed...which of course makes everything harder!

I guess what I didn't like about the Oxbow was soybean hulls and wheat middlings being the second and third ingredients, with molasses pretty high up on the list too. But if it's a brand that hardcore rabbit enthusiasts like you folks deem acceptable, I won't write it off quite yet! It'd certainly be easier to get than the Sherwood. If I did go with Sherwood, I'd definitely be feeding hay too anyway. I have done my research, and know how important it is to a rabbit's diet. I also own a couple of ponies, so I always have plenty of good-quality grass hay on hand anyway!

Azerane- How many sets of the cubes did you find you needed? Is just one set enough to make a decently-sized cage? It looks like on amazon you can get a set that makes 6 cubes for $30, is this what most people use?

What about using the cubes to make a playpen of sorts? (Or does it end up being cheaper to just buy an ex-pen? I'm wondering if it would be possible to make a run out of the cubes that could attach to the store-bought cage, so that the bun could still have lots of room but would still have the portability of the smaller cage. Ok, yeah, I'm just brainstorming at this point You all have given me some great ideas to think about so far, thanks!

Since we're on the topic of constructing cages and confining rabbits, I guess I should also ask how high the little beasts can jump? The dwarf breeds, specifically. And how small of a space can they squeeze through? I know with mice/rats, they can squeeze through any hole as long as their head can fit through-- is the same true of buns? And how LIKELY are they going to be to try? Should I worry about a rabbit trying to squeeze under the 1-inch gap under the couches?

 

[missyscove]

In general, smaller breeds can jump higher. I wouldn't worry about a one inch gap with an adult bun but I know some people have had trouble with small rabbits squeezing through (or at least trying to) the holes in the bigger grids that now come with most boxes of cube shelving. My rabbits can easily leap onto my bed from the ground.

Bunny bunch is probably a little far for you but they just posted a picture of a lion head they got in today.
Ventura County Animal Services is probably within an hours drive and they usually have at least 50 rabbits at a time. Their "bunny brigade" of volunteers lets them out in ex pens for exercise and can tell you about their personalities. Look up VCAS bunny brigade on facebook for more info. I went in there hoping to get a specific bun I had seen online but fell in love with a different pair while I was there.

 

[Calico]

Thanks, I'll check them out!

Well, I went out to the garage this morning to look for something, and ended up finding an ex-pen that I had no idea we had. So I may already have a "bunny corral" I wouldn't want to leave a bun in it unattended because of the cats (who are for the most part well-behaved, but I still wouldn't trust them around a prey animal without supervision) but I wonder if I could make a "lid" for the pen with those storage cubes to keep cats out and keep a bunny from hopping out the top. If I were to use the connectors that come with one of those sets instead of using zip ties, would it be sturdy enough to work?

 

[missyscove]

It's definitely doable. I know midwest makes tops for exercise pens, but I've never used one personally. It wouldn't keep the cats out but I know people who have had trouble with rabbits trying to jump out who have had success with just putting a sheet over the pen. I think the visual barrier is sometimes enough to keep them out of trouble.

Here's the bunny bunch lionhead I mentioned. https://www.facebook.com/TheBunnyBu...6015809780663/796254740423430/?type=1&theater
Their website isn't always up to date (my Cricket's picture was still on it for months after I adopted her) and they have buns in foster homes as well as at their adoption centers, but if you let them know what you're looking for they can be helpful about getting you something specific.

There are also quite a few lionheads at http://www.bunssb.org/ which operates out of the Santa Barbara shelters.

 

[Azerane]

Most people don't like to rely on the connectors, because they can come undone. Cable ties/zip ties are the way to go, with or without connectors (may add some rigidity to a roof). The good thing about cable ties is you can create hinges with them for doors simply by leaving them a touch loose.

It's good that you've found an x-pen. Jumping out can be an issue, but a lot of bunnies are also capable climbers, so even if they can't jump out may still find a way out. I used four boxes of cubes for my cage, but mine's large at 5 grids long, 3 high, 2 deep, you have to take into account the roof, the support of the second level and the steps (2-3 boxes is probably standard depending on size). Most of them are very sturdy even with/without being attached to a base. The most that any cage needs in way of support is often just a wooden dowel to support any upper levels.

 

[Calico]

Missyscove- That little black lionhead is absolutely adorable! Sadly that rescue is a little far away for me, but it looks like they have some really great rabbits! I enjoyed looking through their Facebook page anyway, lol.

Azerane- Good to know! I didn't consider that they might be able to climb. (So, they can jump, climb, and squeeze out of cages...sound like goats!) Thanks for the info on the wire cube cages, will definitely keep it in mind if I decide to go that route

 

[TacoBunny]

Hello sorry it might be too late to reply now but for what its worth the storage cubes hold together great with a lot of cable ties and the great thing is if you needed to change the layout you just cut the cable ties and put it together in a new way. You may get through a fair few ties that way but they come in packs of 100 so that shouldn't be a problem

Because mine is under a table my bun can't try to go under so if you have no roof its worth weighting your cage down

Also its funny someone mentioned the smaller breeds can jump higher... My bun hasn't actually.figured out he can jump yet ... Except when he binkies and I'm not sure how in control of those he is

Oh, also, quite importantly, though I wouldn't change my bun now for the world...but if I could go back and talk to myself before I got an 8 week old I'd say adopt an adult. Taco is slowly morphing into a great bunny but its a shed load of work. If you have an adult there in front of you that you know that's going to be their temperament forever then what you see is what you get. With a baby you never really know.

 

[Catwell1989]

Hi! I agree with a few people on here that use the storage cubes to create cages. I used a shelving unit and bunnified it lol has worked for me and my buns, and they can be completely separated if need be. The cage you had pitcured would probably work for awhile if you get a baby, but would most likely be too small for an adult.

As for lionheads, everyone I've ever met has been sweet and snugly! I personally own French lops which have a similar personality..I'm just a sucker for the floppy ears😉

Good luck on your rabbit search! they are amazing animals with lots of personality and smarts. After my first rabbit I was hooked and have owned a few since then. My bunnies are all house bunnies as well. I work on litter training from day one as well as get my rabbits spayed/neutered which really helps with litter training. Once their litter trained and the house is fully rabbit proofed you should have no problem with them unless you have a serious chewer.

wish you the best!View attachment ImageUploadedByRabbit Forum1424880896.631645.jpg

 

[Calico]

Well, the cage decision has been made for me, for now at least. I was just gifted a gently-used version of this cage, just missing the shef/ramp. This sucker is HUGE, although the dimensions are about the same as the cage I was originally looking at that you all thought was too small, so maybe my perspective is off I plan on using it in conjunction with the ex-pen.

Now, the biggest issue with this particular cage is that it's elevated. I would love for my future bunny to be able to hop freely between the cage and the ex-pen, but with the cage opening being so far off the ground, I'm not sure it's possible. Could I stack boxes next to it? Buy some of those NIC cubes and build a platform? I've heard that bunnies don't do well with ramps.

I also thought it might be nice to have a shelf at one end of the cage. What kind of material should I use for that? I imagine wood would get nasty pretty quick. What are my other options?

 

[missyscove]

If you're planning to leave the wire in the bottom, please put something on top of at least part of it to provide an alternative surface for bun's feet. There's some controversy about what types of flooring cause sore hocks but most agree that having variation is better. At one point I had an elevated cage and I used the plastic storage bin I kept my hay in inside (most of it was in the garage but I'd bring in several days worth in this bin) as a step for my rabbit so he could get in and out on his own. If you're using an ex-pen and a step like that, be careful that the step isn't too close to the side of the pen if you think your rabbit may want to jump out.

As for the shelf, sometimes just walking around the hardware store can be pretty inspiring. The shelves in my dog crate cage are made of wire laundry shelving supported by wooden dowels with a particle board shelf on top or out of a cutting board resting on dowels. The peel-and-stick linoleum tiles on top of wood can work pretty well too.
If you contact super pet you may be able to get a replacement shelf from them. The ramp looks pretty useless for a rabbit though; they can easily jump that height.

 

[Calico]

Of course! I think I have to leave the wire bottom in simply because I don't trust how secure the removable pan is. I was planning on using fleece over the wire bottom (possibly with a thin board underneath for support?) and probably one of those woven grass mats as well. When I had pet rats, fleece was what most people used in their cages and was supposed to be both safe and comfortable. I know we have some leftover pieces of tile that are about 10x10, and I plan to commandeer one of those for a resting surface also.

The storage bin is a great idea-- both as a step and as something to keep hay in indoors. Makes more sense than trekking out to the barn each time

Thanks for the suggestions! I may just have to take a stroll through the hardware store