New member, lost our rabbit at the vet this morning :(

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Jnwaco

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I'm new and hada question. Unfortunately, I may have found this site a little too late. My new bride of 8 months brought with her a 9 year old rabbit named Johnzo. I had never owned a rabbit before. She also brought along 2 dogs and a cat.

We just lost the lhasa apso this past Monday. She was well over 20 years old, my wife having bought her as a puppy when she was 12. A couple of days after that, we noticed Johnzo had developed an abcess near his rear jaw about golfball sized. There were really two distinct abcesses next two each other. It developed rapidly, as my wife holds Johnzo on a daily basis. As soon as the abcess was noticed, we made an appointment to see the exotic pet veterinary here. This was the only vet that specialized in rabbits in our town. Surgery was performed, consisting of basically cutting open the larger abcess, draining it, and prescribing three types of medicine, which I do not have the names handy as I'm writing this. The surgery was performed last Thursday and we were instructed on cleaning the wound, applying the medicine, and adminisering the oral meds, which we did all weekend and Monday. Johnzo was scheduled to go back to the vet this morning to check Johnzo's progress.

I went to work while my wife carried Johnzo to the vet. The vet said he wanted to cut open the second abcess which was about the size of a dime. My wife said okay, and left for work herself.

She received a call shortly thereafter saying that Johnzo had died during this second surgery. I was shocked that they would even attempt to cut the second abcess so soon after the first, but I am neither a vet nor a rabbit expert. I have heard that stress levels are very keen in rabbit health.

I will say that ALL WEEKEND, Johnzo behaved normally. We put fresh hay in his cage and allowed him to walk around the house. He ate as normal, and behaved as though he was feeling normal. He loved being held and would stick his paws straight up in the air as if saying "don't shoot!".

I don't know yet (have not picked up Johnzo's body for burial yet) whether he died during the surgery or just immediately upon being put under for surgery. There's likely no possible way to tell why he died or whether the vet was even at fault. I know that rabbits are much more fragile pets and that this was probably a strong liklihood.That said,we paid in excess of $400 for the initial surgery and medications just last Thursday, and the vet is wanting to charge us yet another $100 for today's unsuccessful surgery which ended his life. I feel this is a little egregious. Should I pay? Was the vet wrong in performing a second surgery on a much smaller secondary abcess that had not grown at all over the weekend? My wife is beside herself at the loss of two pets in such a short amount of time, and I have the duty of going and picking up Johnzo shortly and dealing with the vet.

Based on my extremely shallow knowledge of rabbits or veterinary of any sort, it still seems amazing that the vet would choose to cut on Johnzo so soon after the first surgery, which, for a rabbit, would have to be considered major. I'm going to miss Johnzo, but I'm also a little angry at this point. I was not nearly as attached to the rabbit as my wife, and he seemed to be doing so well just this morning before the trip to the vet.
 
First i want to say i am so sorry for your loss, i know the feeling of loosing a bun and it is horrible.

Second welcome, i want to add that you might wnat to put your location so that maybe someone could help with a vet that they have used that is near to you.

Now as far as abcess i will leave that to someone who has been through that.

I had a rabbit Sooty that was put under for a nueter and was fine and then (of course this was a different vet for the second surgery) he went in to have his front teeth removed and just a few seconds after being put under his gums went white, his heart started stopping and his breathing was very shallow. They were able to bring him back , so i was thinking that maybe a different anesthesia was used this time where your rabbit had a reaction to this one and not the other? a possibility. My vet didnt charge me the 500.00 for this surgery, i had to pay for the pre op blood work but she didnt charge for the surgery or what she had done up until he crashed on them. I am surprised that you would be charged for something like that if it happened while in surgery?

This is a great site and when you feel up to it you m ight want to open your home to another bun and we will be here for you guys, we are also here for you to talk about Johnzo, many of us have grieved bunnies and know exactly what you are going through.

Please send my condolences for the loss of your dog and rabbit to your wife.
 
We are very sorry for your loss of Johnzo. At 9 years of age, he wasn't a youngster and had a good life. That's what's important. Unfortunately, rabbits are fragile and they are so very good at hiding problems from you. We doubt that the vet did anything wrong--most that we know are very compassionate and went into their field because they love animals. Whether or not the surgery is successful, the Vet does have fixed costs--rabbits aren't cheap to treat as they need different meds and anaesthetic. Another thing to consider is that it is hard to find a rabbit savvy vet. Three of the last four rabbits we took to our vet died within four days or less of seeing and being treated--average cost for each was around 200. We know that our vet did their best, but it just didn't work out. Two of the bunnies were also over 9, one was 6 and had a history of the same problems and the one that is still with us is 3 and has never had any other problems. We try to do the best for all our pets, but, sometimes it's just not to be. Once again, sorry for your loss.
 
Welcome! I'm so sorry you lost Johnzo, although I know he had a wonderful long life. Rabbits are very good at hiding pain, and abscesses of the face are quite common. They frequently occur when tooth roots grow incorrectly, and they can be hard to notice until they are too big.

My personal opinion (based on what I've read here and learned from some on this board with first-hand experience) is that an abscess does not need to be operated on unless it is impinging on the function of another organ, for instance blocking his throat and restricting breating, or making it impossible to get food or water down the throat. Opening the abscess up creates a lot of pain and opens the possibility for the bacterial toxins to get into the entire body, not to mention that an opened abscess is very hard to heal. Removing the entire abscess is much better than opening and draining it.

A combination of injectible antibiotics can treat abscesses, if the antibioitc combination is strong enough. There are a few I would ask my vet to prescribe, including Penicillin G Benzathine/Penicillin G Procaine (called Bicillin), Convenia, and zithromax (azithromyicin). These drugs aren't commonly used in rabbits (Convenia isn't approved for use in rabbits), so your vet may not have known about it.

I am not a vet, but knowing what I know, I would have really pestered the vet into knowing why he wanted to open these abscesses and if an antibiotic course was an option for treatment. It is not at all your fault that this so called "rabbit-savvy" vet didn't choose the best course of treatment--we rely on vets to know what the best thing to do is. It is very unfortunate that the vet available to you does not sound as rabbit savvy as they say they are. I hope we can help you find a better vet near you for any future rabbits you might have.

Do you know what exactly caused his death during the second surgery? I don't like the treatment course your vet took, because not only were the surgeries so close together, but also that draining abscesses is not something I like, and the fact that the abscess wasn't limiting his ability to eat or breathe.

In any case, Johnzo had a wonderful long life with your wife, and a happy 8 months with you. I'm so sorry he has passed.
 
I am so sorry. I can't say to much because I honestly don't know. I do think putting a 9yr old rabbit under twice so close together doesn't seem like a wise choice.

We choose them sometimes they choose us and other times they are given to us.

We bring them home and suddenly learn there is so much more.

We love them and care for them....

We feed them and play with them.

We watch them grow and marvel at the change.

We laugh and enjoy there every move.

We sometimes get annoyed at some of what they do, than they look at us and it is all ok.

We do our best to keep them safe and it is not enough.

We sometimes make the choice for how there life ends and sometimes they choose it.

We love them will all our hearts in the end they know this and that is best of all. They go to the bridge loved when so many others have never known love. They go knowing some day we will see them again and their hearts as well as ours will be whole.

Ali P.
 
Thank you all for the warm replies. The vet was very understanding and charged half, which I think was fair. We buried Johnzo yesterday. He definitely seemed happy in his last few days. We definitely try to spoil our pets and they all get huge amounts of attention between my wife, my step-daughter and me playing with them and petting them, just like most of you likely do. Just makes the loss a bit harder. I never knew how rabbits were as pets before Johnzo and he was definitely a good pet. He got along with the other pets as well, when he was out of his hutch.


As far as what caused the death, I believe it to be the stress or the anesthesia. The vet never made it to the point of incising the second abcess. They had just put him under and he stopped breathing.


Thanks again. I will definitely remember this site if my wife or daughter wants another rabbit. We ended up buying a miniature schnauzer recently, so we have a puppy to train in the meantime.

I'm in Waco, Texas, by the way, and won't mention the name of the vet. They were very nice and understanding when I went in yesterday to pick up Johnzo, and I can understand they have costs, even if their efforts aren't successful.
 
Greetings. I know that I am late chiming in here. In 2003 I adopted a very young rabbit and within a month she presented with a very large abcess behind her eye. It literally grew overnight. Over $1,000 later, she passed away 3 days aftr surgery to attempt to drain it. Was it the right thing to do at her very young age and fragile state....I don't know. But I know if I didn't get the surgery, she would have passed anyway. I had to spend the money and give her the chance.

I'm so sorry that your bride lost her precious bunny. I hope in time that your heart will heal and you will welcome another hoppy friend into your life.

Hugs, Patti
 
Thanks slavetoabunny. You never know what may happen had you taken a different course of treatment. The abcess may indeed have killed Johnzo anyways. It might have been nice to have tried the antibiotics a little longer before operating a second time, but we won't know.

The vet said that the second abcess was new since the first surgery, but that was not the case. Both abcesses were there from the beginning, as was obvious after they shaved his face. Anyways, my wife is doing much better and we're moving along. Johnzo has a nice spot in the shady part of the yard.

Thanks for your reply :)
 
Hi,

Please accept my condolences on the loss Johnzo. It sounds as if he had a wonderful life. You sound like wonderful people.

I treat lots of abscesses. Just a few years ago, there was no treatment and the usual course of treatment was to euthanize. Then, some vets came up with the idea of surgery using antibiotic impregnated beads. Very expensive, painful and didn't work. The initial beads were laced with Clindamycin....and that is not good for a rabbit. Many vets still are opening an abscess. I have treated some monsters and not once have I opened one. Opening an abscess is many times like opening Pandora's Box....only bad things happen. Most vets are not highly trained on rabbit treatments....and I know that first hand since I train, consult with and actually treat rabbits for vets. Treating an abscess in a rabbit is a bit different for several reasons. First, rabbits are much more sensitive to medications than other species. Some commonly used antibiotics that are appropriate in other species are fully contraindicated in rabbits. Next, the pus in rabbits is very thick. It is difficult for meds to penetrate the capsule that surrounds a true abscess and reach the core....and that is where the battle should take place. And finally, the bacteria found in the core of the abscess usually contains both faculative and obligate anaerobes....and they are difficult to treat. Many vets will attempt to treat the "tag along" bacteria and don't really treat the problem....they treat symptoms.

My treatment protocol for an abscess involves using injectable Penicillin along with Zithromax. This combination of drugs seems to be able to penetrate to the core. Drugs such as Baytril, SMZ, TMZ or Tetracyclines are totally ineffective against an abscess....yet they are still being used. Aggressive pain meds with anti-inflammatories and a narcotic aspect should be implemented. I also have some very aggressive husbandry protocols. These have never failed me. I would be very interested in the drugs you were using.

Sorry for the long post....and this is an abbreviated explanation of abscess treatments. Hope it doesn't cause you any distress...but many people might read this that don't read my posts in the Infirmary.....so if just one rabbit is helped by this post, it means that Johnzo's spirit remains alive. And the spirit of a special rabbit is how I started my rescue and how I came to be able to treat these complex conditions. Again, my condolences.

Randy
 
That's very helpful ra. If none of us ever made mistakes... We don't really blame the vet.
 
I am so sorry for your loss. Please excuse me if I posted this in the wrong place. I am new today. Your bunny was lucky to have been loved by you, Blessings.
 
Randy are you still on this site? I found this post doing research and would like to talk with you about my 12 yr old rabbit with an ear abscess. Its mostly Yeast- Please contact me if you receive this. x
 
So sorry for your loss of Johnzo. You all sound like loving pet owners and what a great life I'm sure he had. Hope you and your wife can relish in the memories,and in the meantime be distracted by potty training and bonding with your new puppy :)
 
Bunnyflo....where in FL are you? I have an excellent vet that successfully cured my Sparky of a very nasty abscess 1 1/2 years ago. We also treated her with Pen G and Zithro as Randy suggested, but we also had surgery to drain and flush it.
 

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