Need advice, Dopey is not eating & hasn't pooped in 5 hours

[Merf]

Help, I need advice! Maybe I am overreacting, but Dopey has not eaten in the past 5 hours. When I got home, he ate his pellets... but normally around this time he eats his vegetables. I tried giving him his favorite, apples, but he wouldn't even take it. He also has not pooped in the last 5 hours, he has peed though. He hasn't drank any water either. And I noticed that he's laying down a lot more than usual, but every 5 - 10 mins he changes position like he's uncomfortable... and he's even laying in his litter box (which I just changed), that's unusual. Bottom line, he's not acting like himself.

Does anyone have any advice, or has experienced this, or know whats going on? Please Help!

I don't know if he has a GI problem, but if I don't see any poop in the morning... I'm taking him to the vet first thing.

 

[Pipp]

A loooog tummy massage and gas meds.

As long as you're not seeing any other symptoms like blood in his urine, injuries, lumps, etc, it really sounds like a gas attack. (Is he molting per chance?)

Get him moving around, and also keep him warm when he's still.

If you have a vibrating toothbrush or anything else that (safely) vibrates, that may also help to break up the gas bubble. Plopping him on the dryer when its running (or taking him for a car ride) may also help.

But the best immediate action is a a CC or so of liquid baby gas meds containing simethicone, or part of an adult gas tablet (how much does he weigh?) administered every hour for about three hours, and the long tummy massages.

I'll look in our Library for more info so you have it on hand.


sas :clover:

 

[Merf]

Dopey has no other sysmptons, there is no blood in his urine, no injuries, no lumps, no molting.

I did notice, when I had him out and he was laying down, he kept moving around changing positions until I layed next to him, he stayed still. So, I will try rubbing his tummy, but I don't hear it making any "rumbling noises," moving him around, and keeping him warm. I don't have any gas meds, but if he doesn't improve in the next couple of hours, I will go out to the grocery store and buy some.

Thanks for the advice SAS

 

[Pipp]

Gurgling isn't always a sign of gas. Its good to learn your bunny's normal gut sounds and gage it from there, but even then I have trouble using it as in indicator.

Gurgling is pretty normal and no sounds at all can indicate stasis, but not always.

Here's some Simethicone info from the Library. It really is a good idea to get it into them quickly. It can even ward off stasis.

Gas can cause stasis (a reaction to pain), and stasis can cause gas so it's a bit of a chicken or the egg scenario.

Simethicone


What Is It?

Simethicone is an inert detergent-like substance which breaks large gas bubbles down into smaller ones, making it easier for them to move on their way through the digestive tract painlessly.

It is important to note that it will only help the air already in the tract to be more readily expelled, or at least more comfortable for the patient. It does not prevent the formation of gas nor does it make intestinal gases disappear.

It passes through the system without being absorbed into the body and is therefore considered safe.

RO EDITOR'S NOTE: Rabbits can receive medications intended for infants, but the dose for rabbits may well be much higher than what is prescribed for an infant. Larger rabbits may do better with adult brands.


US Brand Names

Anti-Gas Ultra Strength
Baby Gasz
Equilizer Gas Relief
Gas Aid Maximum Strength
Gas-X
Genasyme
Maalox Anti-Gas
Mylanta Gas
Mylicon
Mytab Gas
Phazyme
Simethicone (generic)


Canadian Brand Names

Extra Strength Maalox GRF Gas Relief Formula
Baby's Own Infant Drops
Maalox GRF Gas Relief Formula
Ovol
Ovol-40
Ovol-80
Ovol-160
Phazyme Drops
Phazyme-95
Phazyme-125

Dosage:

Simethicone Liquid: For an acute gas attack, 1-2 cc of a liquid baby gas med (20mg/ml suspension) can be given as often as every hour for three doses, then 1 cc every three to eight hours.

Simethicone Tablets: Rabbits often will readily chew a fruit or other flavored tablet. Depending on the strength of the medication (it usually ranges from 40 to 125 mg suspensions) and the size of the rabbit, anywhere from 1/4 to 1/2 of a tablet is an average dose. It also should only be administered hourly for three hours, or in accordance with the instructions on the package.

Preventative: If you suspect gas but you're not sure, 1 cc by mouth 2 times daily for a day or two will help keep any gas moving through your bun's digestive tract.

Note: It's important to treat for gas as soon as the bunny shows signs of discomfort. A rabbit allowed to suffer gas pains for an extended period of time will lose it's appetite and/or can potentially go into shock, see a drop in body temperature and other problems.


Under Construction: Please check back for additional information and edits!

 

[AngelnSnuffy]

Great post by Pipp, I'd definitely go with what she said, she's a pro at this.

I'm so sorry you're going through this, but I wanted to stop and say Hi and that I'm thinking of you guy's!

Praying is a better word. I'm praying for your boy.

Come on, Dopey, get better, please!:hug:

 

[Flashy]

Any chance he has eaten something unusual or that he is not used to?

Also, if the gas meds don't seem to be showing signs of helping after trying them for a significant period of time, the shifting of position was one of the first signs that one of mine had cystitis and she was in pain, so that might also be something to think about, especially if he is weeing little and often.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

How Is Dopey? Did he potty? and eat?

 

[Merf]

Dopey's condition hasn't improved at all. Still no poop, pee, eating, or water. He didn't eat anything unsual yesterday. Dopey is still shifting positions a lot and last night he even made a sighing noise, like he's in pain... he never makes a noises. I honesly haven't tried the gas medication stuff yet, but at this point I'm really worried. II just want to take him to the vet today and have the doctor check him out... but just my luck our vet is not in until Friday. So now I'm calling around for other vets in the area.

Thank you all for your warm wishes, thoughts, prayers, and advice. I will keep all of you updated on Dopey's condition.

 

[tonyshuman]

Good luck and keep us posted! Going to the vet will be the best thing for him. :clover:

 

[kirst3buns]

Gas can be quite scary and different rabbits can act different and I have one rabbit that acts exactly as you've described when he has gas. Usually, just 1 dose of simethicone and he starts acting like himself again. I know you are planning to go to the vet, but you may want to pick up the gas medicine too.

Good luck.ray: I hope he's feeling better soon.

 

[Maureen Las]

the baby gas meds (liquid simethicone)won't hurt him at all and are easy to pick up at a pharmacy. You can give 1cc then wait a few hours , give another if he has not improved. this can be repeated three times
it sounds like he has gas. letting him have a good run around your house will also increase peristalsis in the gut. You can also give tummy massages but best to give the gas meds first.

I want to emphasize they will not hurt your rabbit....
A bunny can go from looking sick to being "himself" in a matter of minutes.after getting simethicone

Even if you are going to the vet you need to start getting fluids and food into him You can get electrolyte solution for children anywhere ..it is called pedialyte. You can also pick up a syringe at the pharmacy ..ask the pharmacy for a a couple 20 cc syringes to give fluids to your rabbit.

Pick up some pure canned pumkin and/ or if you have critical care begin to syringe him small amounts of each of these at first. if you don't have critical care . wet his pellets with hot water and make a gruel that fits in the syringe.

offer him fresh wet greens to stimulate his appetite.

try to think of something he may want to eat on his own.

even if you do go to the vet unless you are going to leave him there overnight most of the challenge of treating him will be your responsiblity.

The longer he goes without fluids and food the longer it will take to get him out of this. if he isn't drinking at this point at least start syringing the pedilayte.
if you cannot get that then syringe pure water....

he is not going to just start eating and drinking at this point unless you intervene.

if he's OK now let us know............

 

[dquesnel]

HI, just want to post a bit of my own experience for you. I think it would be important for you to hear, as I have a rabbit (Sass) that gets like what you have described at LEAST once a month. He even looks like the Dopey in your avatar photo.

The thing with my Sass is that when he gets like this, it is NOT gas. I have found through experience that gas often comes on quickly, and passes with 8 hours. You have said that Dopey has not eaten (as of your last post) in what looks like 14 hours. A 'gas attack' does NOT last that long, so what Dopey is experiencing is abdominal discomfort most likely due to being partially obstructed in the intestine or cecum.

What I do to get Sass through is this:
1) I notice he has abdominal discomfort usually right after eating, so I know he has food in his belly. I will give him simethicone and massage as Pipp described above. IF:
2) he doesn't poop in three more hours, I syringe him water and a small amount of critical care to hydrate his gut. I watch to see that he isn't developing bloat (a condition where the gut fills with gas and expands, putting pressure on the organs/lungs. Very painful.) If his tummy still feels soft and not hard and balloon like, I proceed to #3.
3) I force him to exercise. Moving around may dislodge an obstruction and get the gut moving.
4) I offer any, and all food he wants to eat.

I give simethicone every hour in case he is developing gas.

I know when he is feeling better, because he will start showing interest in food and moving. Sometimes it takes 4-12 hours to see improvement. Withing 30minutes of seeming to feel better, he will poop. The poop looks like a bunch of dark gunk that dried into a hard mass, not round like normal poop. It is dried and missphapen. Usually within 6-12 hours he will be eating and drinking like normal, like nothing happened.

The key to this situation, or when a rabbit is showing symptoms of gas attack, is to keep them warm and try to get as much fluids as possible in them. What is important is that they do NOT get motility drugs at this point (reglan, metaclopromide, cisapride) because since the cause is an obstruction the dugs will just cause the gut to involuntarily move, possibly causing a rupture in the gut. Hydration is key.

You have to watch out for bloat, which I described above (belly that swells up like a big firm balloon). If that happens, it is a HUGE emergency, the rabbit needs to go into the vet ASAP to have the gas removed. Most rabbits do pass away from bloat as it is usually fatal but its effects can be reversed, and the rabbit can at least be on pain meds.

Hopefully by now Dopey is much better and you don't need the above advice. But if this has happened once now, it will likely happen again and you can have it on hand.

Please keep us posted!

 

[Merf]

Dopey is back from the vet's and I'm happy to say he is okay now. The doctor took xrays and said he had mortility (I think that was the word). He said that basically Dopey was "plugged up." They gave him fluids, and a medicine called Laxatone... after they administered it, they said he pooped a lot. He seems back to him normal self and even gave me a kiss when I picked him up from the vet. The doctor also gave me a tube of Laxatone to give to Dopey twice a day, and Metoclopramide to give to him three times a day.

I don't know much about mortility, the doctor tried to explaining it to me... saying Dopey could of become plugged by eating some cloth or something or by a lack of fiber. But there is no cloth or anything out of the ordinary for Dopey to eat, and he has the hay wants to eat available to him. So I don't know what caused it. In fact, is mortility the same as gas?

We just got home and Dopey is already eating some hay . I guess over the next few days I just have to monitor Dopey's eating, drinking, poop, and pee. But he honestly does seem a million times better.

Dopey and I thank all of you from the bottom of our hearts. Thank you all for caring and for the great advice. I will keep the tips about gas in mind, in case he ever gets it. God bless you all :halo

 

[ra7751]

Hi Merf,

Not trying to contradict the vet....and I am not a vet...but I have treated the sickest of rabbits. In my non-professional opinion....there is no way in H-E-double hockey sticks that I would give any rabbit Laxatone or Metaclopramide (or any other gut motility drug for that matter....far too much risk for a minimal, if any, possible benefit). Is this a cat vet? That is old school stuff from a time when it was thought that rabbits should be treated like cats. The idea behind Laxatone looks good on paper...for a carnivore. Rabbits are herbivores and that makes the dynamics in the gut totally different. The thing behind the Laxatone is to "lubricate" the intestinal lining. But if you put the Laxatone in the mouth....it's lubricating where the impaction has already been...not where it needs to go. The Laxatone adds pressure, compacts the impaction and dehyrates it....the exact opposite of what you need. The motility drugs work by causing severe (meaning painful) contractions in which the idea is for the spasms to force any impaction thru. Some of these drugs work by releasing chemicals from the brain to stimulate the muscles and some of them work by directly stimulating nerve endings in the gut itself. If the impaction is large and/or total obstruction, these contractions are extremely painful....and we all know how rabbits react topain. The linings of the intestinal walls are also quite thin. During a stasis/ileus episode, the changing climate in the gut can induce gastric ulcers to form. These are lesions that weaken an already very thin intestinal wall. It is possible for the contractions to be so severe that an ulcer can perforate. That would not be a desired event. And a quick note about Simethicone....it is an excellent tool when treating gas but it does tend to slow the gut a bit...and that would not be what you want with stasis.

The proper way to attack stasis is hydration. I would think the combination of the somewhat stressful road trip with all the bouncing around and the fluids that were given are the reason things are moving along. Our first attack against stasis is movement and hydration. Sometimes, just happended here with one of our large Flemish, just a hand full or two of wet leafy greens and some run time is all it takes to beat stasis. I also tend to use probioticsto hep stabilize the pH and provide afavorable climatefor thegrowth of beneficial bacteria.

The best treatment for stasis is prevention. Stasis is always secondary to something else. Usually it's diet but it can be caused by something like carpet fibers, dental issues or illness/infection. Unlimited grass hay provides the bulk that keeps the gut going. Drinking lots of water to maintain hydration. Learn to recognize the symptoms of stasis very early in the event. Our first indication of a problem is pellets left over. We feed so few pellets that if any are left over, we are taking notice. We immediately start pushing greens and movement. We have had success with using fresh squeezed pineapple juice...not canned, bottled or concentrate. I get a real fruit and hand squeeze. Papaya extract also seems to help. There is no clinical proof of the benefit of bromelain and/or papain (chemical agents in the juice) but it sure seems to help. Being able to administer SQ or IV infusions (knowing not only how to do fluids, but also when to give fluids) can be a life saver. The benefits of well timed and administered fluids comes many times in minutes.

We have had rabbits not eat or poop for over a week. The thing about not eating in a certain amout of time again is the sum of old and outdated information. We have a stasis protocol here based on early detection and an escalading treatment protocol in dealing with the problem.

I am not advising you to disregard your vet's instructions....just sharing some things I have learned in my decades of working rabbits. I do ask you to research the treaments suggested so you will be truly imformed of the possible side effects of this course of treatment. Healing vibes headed to Dopey.

Randy

 

[MyLOVEABLES!!]

Im glad you found out the cause of Dopey's problem!

x

 

[dquesnel]

Merf wrote:

So I don't know what caused it. In fact, is mortility the same as gas?

Hi, if you read the post I wrote above yours it should answer this question and provide you with some feedback about the condition Dopey had. And Randy's post (above this one) explains why the vet's treatment may not be in the best interest of the rabbit. Good luck!

 

[Merf]

New concern... the doctor said after reviewing Dope's xray, he has motility. The doctor also gave me a tube of Laxatone to give to Dopey twice a day, and Metoclopramide to give to him three times a day. But after reading some of your posts, after I posted Dopey's update I'm concerened about the medication prescribed. The doctor I took him to treats all types of animals, but he did seem very knowledgable about rabbits and has owned rabbits before. If it's true that the medication the doctor prescribed is not in Dopey's best intrest, what do I do? Do I call the doctor back tomorrow? Should I honestly contiue to give Dopey the medication the doctor prescribed? Should I stop? Does Dopey need any type of meds still if he is okay now?

From my understanding the vet already gave Dopey some Laxatone and Metoclopramide at the office. As prescribed, I just gave Dopey 0.4 ml of Metoclopramide. Tried giving him the Laxatone, but he hates it and wouldn't let me syringe it in or even eat his lettuce with it on it.

Since coming home from the vet Dopey has eaten hay, some pellets, and his veggies. He has also pooped and peed. I haven't seen him drink any water yet, but the doctor did give him some fluid shots at the office earlier today, and said there may still be some pouches of water in his skin. Dopey doesn't seem to be in pain, he is hoping around just fine. He's laying down a lot, but comfortably... but I think he's tired because I doubt he got much sleep last night.

 

[Merf]

Oh I forgot to mention, the doctor prescribed the Laxatone for 5 days, 2 ml twice a day. And the Metoclopramide for 3 - 5 days, 0.4 ml three times a day. He also said he's seen other rabbits with this condition and they have all recovered fine.

I'm just paranoid now, as usual any tips or advice would be great.

 

[AngelnSnuffy]

I'm so glad to hear that Dopey is doing well, I would NOT give the Metoclopramide or the Laxatone as per Randy, and as I believe as well. I would start to hydrate though, as Randy suggested.

Another good thing to do tonight is to feed some pumpkin and make sure he's drinking lots of water.

Please keep us posted, hon.

 

[dquesnel]

Hi, it is really your choice whether to continue or not with the meds and laxatone. What the vet prescribed isn't the worst thing to do by far, but it also isn't the best. If it were my rabbit, and he were acting/eating/drinking like normal, I would *not* give him the meds. I would increase his veggies though, and add another dish of water to encourage drinking. But that is me, and your rabbit is different too. Also, we have a tendency to fear that the animal will relapse and we are at fault. However, if the animal relapses it likely it was meant to do that anyway especially if the cause was not addressed. SO when you are given conflicting advice, you should always go with what *your* instinct tells you since it is your rabbit and we can't see him.

It certainly won't hurt to contact the vet tomorrow and tell him your concerns and what you know right now. We often have to bounce ideas off our vets and help them learn new ways of dealing with a problem, as we learn more about rabbits we learn more about the care for them. Keep us posted on Dopey and any concerns you may have.