My Vet Experience
- Thread starter Malexis
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Bo B Bunny
Well-Known Member
Does anyone have a basic bullet list of medicines they can have, can't have and the purpose they might be used for?
I think that might be something handy to keep in our wallet/near the bunny stuff... someplace handy in an emergency.
I think that might be something handy to keep in our wallet/near the bunny stuff... someplace handy in an emergency.
Amy27
Task Force
slavetoabunny wrote:
That is the book I ordered yesterday. I can't wait to get it and read it. MalexisI got it on amazon for $12.55 new plus shipping.
Thanks for all the sites everyone those are awesome. Do you think would could put those sites in the library so it is easy access once this thread dissappears?
That is the book I ordered yesterday. I can't wait to get it and read it. MalexisI got it on amazon for $12.55 new plus shipping.
Thanks for all the sites everyone those are awesome. Do you think would could put those sites in the library so it is easy access once this thread dissappears?
Sabine
Well-Known Member
I am actually facing a vet visit for an eye issue tomorrow and I've already taken lots of notes from the thread I posted (Thanks to Randy, Pam and others).
I would love to have a general guide book on rabbit's health. Where can you order Kathy Smith's books. Is it possible to order them from ireland? And would I be able to make sense of the names of the medications as they would probably have different trade names here?
P.S. Just ordered book from Amazon a few minutes ago
I would love to have a general guide book on rabbit's health. Where can you order Kathy Smith's books. Is it possible to order them from ireland? And would I be able to make sense of the names of the medications as they would probably have different trade names here?
P.S. Just ordered book from Amazon a few minutes ago
krsbunny
Well-Known Member
In 2004 I put together a table of drugs by class. It is available as a PDFat:
http://www.lagomorphs.com/mainpage.html... On the left, click on Drug Cross-Reference Table.
Included are generic names, common US brand names, route of administration (oral or injection). I have included ones to be used with caution (noted as such in the comments ).
It is one of the many things that I plan to update as part of the 3rd Edition of Rabbit Health in the 21st Century and I am open to input from this group.I am also willing to do versions for Canada, Europe, etc. if someone wants to help me with common brand names (I can easily find out generic from brand names... just need the brand, country, and type of drug, ie antibiotic, analgesic, etc.).
I actually did give oral cephalexen to Smokey when there were no other options for his ear infections back in the mid-1990's. We agressively gave probiotics as well and he did just fine.Cephalexin isa different 1st generation cephalosporin than Cefa-drops (cefadroxil is the generic). Cephalexin is listed (with no precautionary comments) for rabbits in the Exotic Animal Formulary. Cefadroxil is not listed.
I had many in-depth conversation with the pharmacist where I used to work and he pointed out that many doctors do not have a good understanding of most drugs or understand the differences between different drugs in a class. Given thathe was speaking about our human doctors, this may be equally true of veterinarians. While I would hope that veterinarians have better knowledge of the cefa/cepha drugs and the different sulfa drugs, it is important to (1) double check but also (2) understand that different individuals may also have different experiences prescribing (or using) a certain drug.
Over the years I have become lessinclined to use the words "always" or "never."The closest I come to saying"never use" areoral penicillins (amoxicillin, ampicillin, clavamox) and erythromycin. Even then, there may be times -- if all other options have failed -- that one might chose to try even these, knowing the risk. That is different than prescribing them as a first (or even 2nd or 3rd) choice.
Kathy Smith
http://www.lagomorphs.com/mainpage.html... On the left, click on Drug Cross-Reference Table.
Included are generic names, common US brand names, route of administration (oral or injection). I have included ones to be used with caution (noted as such in the comments ).
It is one of the many things that I plan to update as part of the 3rd Edition of Rabbit Health in the 21st Century and I am open to input from this group.I am also willing to do versions for Canada, Europe, etc. if someone wants to help me with common brand names (I can easily find out generic from brand names... just need the brand, country, and type of drug, ie antibiotic, analgesic, etc.).
I actually did give oral cephalexen to Smokey when there were no other options for his ear infections back in the mid-1990's. We agressively gave probiotics as well and he did just fine.Cephalexin isa different 1st generation cephalosporin than Cefa-drops (cefadroxil is the generic). Cephalexin is listed (with no precautionary comments) for rabbits in the Exotic Animal Formulary. Cefadroxil is not listed.
I had many in-depth conversation with the pharmacist where I used to work and he pointed out that many doctors do not have a good understanding of most drugs or understand the differences between different drugs in a class. Given thathe was speaking about our human doctors, this may be equally true of veterinarians. While I would hope that veterinarians have better knowledge of the cefa/cepha drugs and the different sulfa drugs, it is important to (1) double check but also (2) understand that different individuals may also have different experiences prescribing (or using) a certain drug.
Over the years I have become lessinclined to use the words "always" or "never."The closest I come to saying"never use" areoral penicillins (amoxicillin, ampicillin, clavamox) and erythromycin. Even then, there may be times -- if all other options have failed -- that one might chose to try even these, knowing the risk. That is different than prescribing them as a first (or even 2nd or 3rd) choice.
Kathy Smith
Malexis
Well-Known Member
Wait, now im kinda confused :/
Isnt Cephalexin cepha-drops? What are you meaning by cefadoxil is it different? and is it harmful?
Isnt Cephalexin cepha-drops? What are you meaning by cefadoxil is it different? and is it harmful?
Kathy can answer this herself later butI don't think that she is inferring that you should give either one. It would not be a 1st choice antibiotic.
I know that Randy said that cephalexin was listed on a Veterinary website as OK (VIN)to give orally and he took issue with that with a vet as he felt that it was incorrect. it is on the unsafe list on other lists
I think Kathy gave Cephalexin awhile back because maybe there wasn't another drug that was available or the bacterial culture was specific to that drug ; I don't know....
Ithink that what kathy means is that if a pharmacist or vet has a truly good working knowledge of the different classes of medication and chemical make-ups that he can be more creative in trying different things based on extensive knowledge of drugs.
this isn't anything that we can do
Iwould not give cephalexin or cefa drops to any rabbit because I don't understand the dynamics of the drugs well enough.
so I follow the lists
I know that Randy said that cephalexin was listed on a Veterinary website as OK (VIN)to give orally and he took issue with that with a vet as he felt that it was incorrect. it is on the unsafe list on other lists
I think Kathy gave Cephalexin awhile back because maybe there wasn't another drug that was available or the bacterial culture was specific to that drug ; I don't know....
Ithink that what kathy means is that if a pharmacist or vet has a truly good working knowledge of the different classes of medication and chemical make-ups that he can be more creative in trying different things based on extensive knowledge of drugs.
this isn't anything that we can do
Iwould not give cephalexin or cefa drops to any rabbit because I don't understand the dynamics of the drugs well enough.
so I follow the lists
Malexis
Well-Known Member
Okay thanks for the further explantation! That helps a lot. I know that Randy gave me that as an example(cephalexin being ok on the VIN, but itwas incorrect.) I wrote down his example a it actually helped..
I think for now its better for me to stay away for cepha-drops asi dont have a vet who knows enough about them to use it.
I think for now its better for me to stay away for cepha-drops asi dont have a vet who knows enough about them to use it.
slavetoabunny
Well-Known Member
Amy27 wrote:
I got my copy at Amazon also. They had the best price I could find.
krsbunny
Well-Known Member
When I read Cepha-drops I wanted to "assume" that was cephalexin, but when I looked it up found it was cefadroxil ... a completely different drug. Angieluv is correct in clarifying that I am NOT recommending giving either (even though my experience turned out OK).
Drugs are complex ... and I know just enough about them to know how little I really know. There are many misconceptions. I have heard many people state that "Cipro is the human form of Baytril" when, in fact, Cipro and Baytril are two completely different drugs in the same antibiotic class. I don't know why Baytril is only approved for veterinary use ...but obviously there is something different about how it works.On the other side of the coin, I've had bunnies with bacterial infections that were resistant to Batril, but sensitive to Cipro.Another example (that I have personal human experience with) is erythromycin (definitely not to be used in rabbits) and azythromycin (which I have heard both good and badcommentsabout in bunnies... possibly dose-related). Both are macrolide antibiotics. I absolutely cannot take erythomycin ... do OK with azithromycinif I also take probiotics.I would tryazithromycin on a rabbit if needed, but because of how my physical gut reacts to it I would personally not consider it a first-choice drug for them.
Very few things in medicine are clearly Black and White ... While I have a great deal of respect for Randy's knowledge and experience, therehave already beenmany subjects where my personal experiences with drugs (Baytril, sulfa drugs, and motility meds) have been different from his.Over the yearsI have learned there are no "one size fits all" answers in medicine. For me, hearing about the experiences that are different from mine are most helpful, as they cause me to adjust my thinking and open my mind to new options and to outcomes (good or bad) that I have not personally experienced. The more open we are, the better our decisions on rabbit care will be.
Finally, I have found the best way to get optimum medical care for my rabbits is to work in partnership with my vets. This begins with acknowledging that they are the medical professional, regardless of their level of experience with rabbits. To that end, I would never tell a vet that information on a professional veterinary forum was "wrong." Instead, if a vet I am working with suggests something I've read is not safe, I start with "I'm not comfortable with that ... is there something else we can try?" Then, I try to find backup for my "gut" feeling both from individual caregivers and from professional sites ... if there is nothing written in the veterinary community to back what caregivers are saying, then I try to put my vet in touch with the other person's vet. We are, indeed, the experts on our own individual rabbits -- and perhaps more aware of rabbit medicine in general than many vets, but as non-vets we must also understand what we do not know.
Kathy Smith
Drugs are complex ... and I know just enough about them to know how little I really know. There are many misconceptions. I have heard many people state that "Cipro is the human form of Baytril" when, in fact, Cipro and Baytril are two completely different drugs in the same antibiotic class. I don't know why Baytril is only approved for veterinary use ...but obviously there is something different about how it works.On the other side of the coin, I've had bunnies with bacterial infections that were resistant to Batril, but sensitive to Cipro.Another example (that I have personal human experience with) is erythromycin (definitely not to be used in rabbits) and azythromycin (which I have heard both good and badcommentsabout in bunnies... possibly dose-related). Both are macrolide antibiotics. I absolutely cannot take erythomycin ... do OK with azithromycinif I also take probiotics.I would tryazithromycin on a rabbit if needed, but because of how my physical gut reacts to it I would personally not consider it a first-choice drug for them.
Very few things in medicine are clearly Black and White ... While I have a great deal of respect for Randy's knowledge and experience, therehave already beenmany subjects where my personal experiences with drugs (Baytril, sulfa drugs, and motility meds) have been different from his.Over the yearsI have learned there are no "one size fits all" answers in medicine. For me, hearing about the experiences that are different from mine are most helpful, as they cause me to adjust my thinking and open my mind to new options and to outcomes (good or bad) that I have not personally experienced. The more open we are, the better our decisions on rabbit care will be.
Finally, I have found the best way to get optimum medical care for my rabbits is to work in partnership with my vets. This begins with acknowledging that they are the medical professional, regardless of their level of experience with rabbits. To that end, I would never tell a vet that information on a professional veterinary forum was "wrong." Instead, if a vet I am working with suggests something I've read is not safe, I start with "I'm not comfortable with that ... is there something else we can try?" Then, I try to find backup for my "gut" feeling both from individual caregivers and from professional sites ... if there is nothing written in the veterinary community to back what caregivers are saying, then I try to put my vet in touch with the other person's vet. We are, indeed, the experts on our own individual rabbits -- and perhaps more aware of rabbit medicine in general than many vets, but as non-vets we must also understand what we do not know.
Kathy Smith
Malexis
Well-Known Member
Okay so cephalexin and cefadroxil are different? and cepha-drops are considered cefadroxil, but neither are safe?
Do you have any where that says that s tha i can print it out.
I totally understand that not all experiences are the same for each rabbit, but it still helps to know other experiences and what helpped because it could be useful...
We found a vet listed on a small animal rescue site, and we might check them out it grasshoper doesnt get better soon..
Do you have any where that says that s tha i can print it out.
I totally understand that not all experiences are the same for each rabbit, but it still helps to know other experiences and what helpped because it could be useful...
We found a vet listed on a small animal rescue site, and we might check them out it grasshoper doesnt get better soon..
Amy27
Task Force
I didn't want to start a new thread for this but I am getting excited to get my book. It seems like several people in this thread alone are ordering "When Your Rabbit Needs Special Care" book. I am sure there are other members who have read it. I thought it would be cool if there was a place we could discuss what we have read. Whether it is thoughts on something we read, clarification to how another reader might have taken something. I just thought it would be interesting since so many of us showed interest in that book in this thread. What do you guys think?
Malexis
Well-Known Member
That sounds like a good idea! once you get your book and have questions start a general thread or something and we can all post on it.
krsbunny
Well-Known Member
I am open to questions/comments on both the Special Care book and Rabbit Health in the 21st Century. If a thread is started on the subject, would someone be sure to PM me so I'm aware of it ... especially if it is not in the Infirmary.
Your questions/comments willhelp me know what needs to be included, updated, and/or elaborated on in the 3rd Edition of RH21 (I don't plan to repeat much informationin the special care book, but may include different types of information on some of the topics. For example, I'll refer to the Special Care book for HOW to give fluids and injections, but will include ideas on how to do it alone when a "second set of hands" would be nice.)
I'm sure many of the questions from this group will require research <gr> ... because I definitely don't know everything! One of the things I want to include in the 3rd Edition is many different perspectives on things from a variety of resources ... so feel free to "challenge" my assumptions either on the thread or privately. The best feedback for making the book better is the type that make me go, "Hmmm, I've never thought about it that way before."
Kathy
Your questions/comments willhelp me know what needs to be included, updated, and/or elaborated on in the 3rd Edition of RH21 (I don't plan to repeat much informationin the special care book, but may include different types of information on some of the topics. For example, I'll refer to the Special Care book for HOW to give fluids and injections, but will include ideas on how to do it alone when a "second set of hands" would be nice.)
I'm sure many of the questions from this group will require research <gr> ... because I definitely don't know everything! One of the things I want to include in the 3rd Edition is many different perspectives on things from a variety of resources ... so feel free to "challenge" my assumptions either on the thread or privately. The best feedback for making the book better is the type that make me go, "Hmmm, I've never thought about it that way before."
Kathy
naturestee
Well-Known Member
Amy, go ahead and start a thread for it if you'd like to. I'd put it in the Infirmary since it's about health stuff. I just finished reading that book and discussions about it will help keep it fresh in my memory.
Amy27
Task Force
I should get my book tomorrow. I will start a thread on it if someone hasn't beat me to it. Malexis when are you getting your book?
Kathy, if I start a thread or see one I will make sure to PM you and let you know.
Naturestee, I will make sure to start the thread in the infirmary.
Kathy, if I start a thread or see one I will make sure to PM you and let you know.
Naturestee, I will make sure to start the thread in the infirmary.
Sabine
Well-Known Member
Amy27 wrote:
That's a great idea. I hope I get my book soon. I ordered it last week from Amazon. I had actually almost forgotten I did. Can't wait to get it
