My future breedings, "no holes" clarification, etc...

[Blaze_Amita]

woahlookitsme wrote:

Heather I have learned a thing or two from you and I hope you continue to be on this forum! I also loved seeing your adorable and interesting dutch babies. If only I could know on day one the quality of that baby and if it should be for pet or show. *ponders*

Even with the dutch you never do know! at least we can see our markings, but body type- eh not so much- I have learned that you can have two very typie rabbits that STILL throw not so nice type- and i'm still trying to learn color genetics these gray dutch drive me nuts trying to get ring pattern and then get a random one pop up that is awesome and there doesn't seem possible for a gray to have popped up. *shakes head* I still read posts, I've laid off the resuce part of my barn as I've never really been able to place any in pet homes down here in KY.

 

[MyJuneAngel]

Sorry you received a nasty gram.

I'm a pet owner. I don't understand the world of breeding but I'm definitely not going to bash it. Yes, there are tons of rabbits in shelters waiting for homes but pretty much every one of those is there because, somewhere down the line, they had an irresponsible owner... not breeder, owner.

We had two surprise litters and boy do I feel awful about it. Yes, we found good homes for all of the babies but it wasn't easy and two of them have already been re-homed from their original homes. It is all beyond my control and that bothers me because I feel pretty responsible for them all. I can't imagine the responsibility that would come with breeding!

 

[wendymac]

Bingo! It's the owner, not the breeder, that's responsible. We make every effort to sell our animals to other breeders and rabbit fanciers. I have only sold 2 as pets. Well, they were supposed to be pets, but now they're looking for another buck and doe to start breeding. GRRR! Those were sold as pets, without pedigrees, because they weren't breeding candidates. So now I'm starting to think of alternative ways of doing something with my pet quality rabbits...

 

[MyJuneAngel]

I have known dog breeders to spay/neuter their pet quality dogs before selling them as pets to assure that they are not bred. I know this adds to the expense for you but it could be an option for those truly wanting them as pets, you have them altered and they pay for it as part of the adoption/re-homing fee...

You know, that is one thing that really annoys me... when someone gets an animal as a pet and then decides to start breeding them. Breeding requires a lot of forethought and research and education on the species and breeds, not just throwing a couple of animals together.

When our doe delivered her first litter I started doing some research on kits because I was clueless. All that I read scared the crud out of me! I am definitely not equipped to breed and I call myself blessed that we didn't have any major issues with the two litters that we were surprised with.

 

[wendymac]

That really made me mad, too, because I stressed to them that they were PET quality (which is what they said they were looking for) and wouldn't make good brood stock. I sold them for $10 each. There's no way anyone around here will pay more than that for a pet, and if I were to get them all spayed/neutered I'd be out way too much money.

I'm really enjoying the breeding part. Trying to figure out which ones to breed, which ones to keep, etc. Plus I'm VERY competitive, so love the showing aspect. Especially now that my "homegrown" stock are doing well.

I'm sad when I see the one or two that are not alive at birth, but it's not so bad (because I wasn't attached yet). What breaks my heart is losing one (like Pip Squeak) who died at 3 weeks.

 

[majorv]

MyJuneAngel wrote:

I have known dog breeders to spay/neuter their pet quality dogs before selling them as pets to assure that they are not bred. I know this adds to the expense for you but it could be an option for those truly wanting them as pets, you have them altered and they pay for it as part of the adoption/re-homing fee...

You know, that is one thing that really annoys me... when someone gets an animal as a pet and then decides to start breeding them. Breeding requires a lot of forethought and research and education on the species and breeds, not just throwing a couple of animals together.

When our doe delivered her first litter I started doing some research on kits because I was clueless. All that I read scared the crud out of me! I am definitely not equipped to breed and I call myself blessed that we didn't have any major issues with the two litters that we were surprised with.

I've mentioned before that we don't sell that many of our rabbits as pets. They're mainly sold asshow rabbits, but on the few occasions that we advertisea rabbit for a pet home we always get queries about wantingthem forbreeding ssd:.We will notsell pet quality rabbits for breeding!It's a dead giveaway when they ask for a pair!

 

[wendymac]

Well, they bought a brother and sister. And they talked about getting the male (Opie) neutered.

 

[majorv]

wendymac wrote:

Well, they bought a brother and sister. And they talked about getting the male (Opie) neutered.

I wasn't referring to you. I was just relating our experience. You would think selling a brother & sister would be safe though.I dorememberwhat happened to my daughter's meat pen rabbits - the ones who got Reserve Grand Champion. The buyer asked us to deliver them alive because they wanted them as pets. Turns out they just put them all together and within 2 months the lone doe was pregnant (at about 4 months old). Of course, she had 2 stillborns because she was too young to be bred and because the two boys were her brother & half brother. I had to hold my tongue when the wife told me this because, well, they had paid $5,500 for them. :X They were really nice little Cals and we would've loved to keep them.

 

[wendymac]

People can be so darn stupid! I am torn on this whole meat pen thing. We're going to use the best 6. On one hand I hope she kicks butt with them. On the other, I don't know what the commission for the sale is. If she does well, and they go high, I might have to pay a fortune to get them back. Or just breed new ones. I don't think meat pens sell for more than a few grand here, but even so, that could add up.

Maybe I'll encourage her to use 6 of the bucks. Then I wouldn't feel like I had to buy them back.

My hubby won't butcher anything (we took the pigs, cow, etc. to the local butcher, alive, and he did it all and packaged it). I'm really not sure what else to do with the pet quality stock...

 

[majorv]

I understand, but we did the meat penbecause we knew that there wasn't a lot of competition - usually 20 pens or less for our school district show - and if we placed high, the payout would really help the college fund! She made more with that meat pen than she didwithher 3 goats and 1 lamb!As long as you have the parents youcould try breeding again, that isif they do so well that you can't afford to buy them back.After all was said and done, we had6 left that were pet quality...but I can't say here what happened to them.

 

[fantaysah]

I would love to breed and show and do all of th things you guys do BUT financially i couldn't afford all if the things i needed, i am not as patient as i should be and i don't have near enough knowledge ! I do however commend you guys not only for bettering the breeds but for the info you share. Don't worry about what anyone else thinks ONLY YOU truly know if your responsible or not and people who judge will only get the same in return.

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

I think some people don't realize that it's very rare to find a PUREBRED rabbit in a shelter.

And just because it might be purebred, doesn't mean it came from a breeder themselves. Were they born in a responsible breeders' rabbitry and then somehow, somewhere along the line, ended up in the shelter? Perhaps so. But the MAJORITY of breeders know how to keep their animals out of shelters. They take steps to prevent this. Either by taking the animal back and rehoming it, or by other means... which I was under the impression, that, even in this area of the forum, we were not allowed to discuss... Did the rules change?

If people don't like what us breeders do, then they need to not come into breeder topics, or send breeders PMs and bash us. This forum is for breeders and pet owners alike. Don't forget that it started out as a meat rabbit forum.

Emily

 

[wendymac]

:yeahthat: I don't think we're to come right out and discuss the actual "other means", but not really sure.

With that in mind, I wish we could have a separate forum area for "other means" discussions. It sure would help some of us that are looking for that kind of information...

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

wendymac wrote:

:yeahthat: I don't think we're to come right out and discuss the actual "other means", but not really sure.

With that in mind, I wish we could have a separate forum area for "other means" discussions. It sure would help some of us that are looking for that kind of information...

I agree with this. It seems almost contradictory to encourage responsible breeding, but eliminate that very important side of things which is what makes many breeding programs responsible!

I have pet bunnies too, so I understand that many are just very loved pets.But learning about all sides of the hobby really brings a better understanding to how we can all control populations and provide adequate care for what we produce.

 

[DharmaBuns]

I'm here! I stopped posting for awhile, but I plan on being more active here

RESPONSIBLE (emphasis on that word) breeders should not be lumped in the same category of those that think that they can put Rabbit A and Rabbit B together just to get cute babies. It takes an incredible amount of time and energy figuring out which rabbits should be bred together and when.

I am also a very small rabbitry, about 20 holes. I only have one breed though, Tans. There really isn't a huge pet market for Tans unless people specifically seek them out and I actually wouldn't reccomend them for a lot of families. Because there ARE so many in shelters, I don't sell any as pets. I would sell to another trusted breeder, but I never sell pets.

 

[woahlookitsme]

It also helps that Tans are not a marked rabbit and that all the babies are showable unless there is a major DQ

Rarely sell my tans as pets but so many people contact me about them for pet purposes I end up telling them to do reading and link a bunch of articles they end up never replying back LOL

 

[wendymac]

Well, Flops are all pretty much showable. I don't think there's an unshowable color, even, or if judges even look at the color. It's just, "Yep, it's a broken" or "Yep, it's a solid" type of thing. LOL But there are some that aren't quite show worthy. LaRew doesn't quite have the fullness in the hindquarters that she needs (for example). So I either breed her and see what her babies are like, sell her to someone else to do the same thing, or pet her out.

Do you never get a Tan that doesn't quite have the build to be a contender?

 

[woahlookitsme]

There is an old tan build and a new tan build. Older ones are more stocky and thicker boned. Joe Kim started bringing in the newer style tan that is thin and elegant looking and they became popular fast! There are some judges who only like the old standard but most go for the new standard. Of course everyone has their own opinion. I personally have a pet peeve for Hindquarters and don't like chopped tans. Im seeing that in this current litter and its not making me a happy camper. . .

Old Tan
http://www.planet-pets.com/rabt15.jpg

New Tan
http://bunnybreeders.angelfire.com/tan1.jpg

 

[wendymac]

I like the look of the new tans. It's VERY distinctive. The old tans appear more along the lines of a commercial breed.

Hopefully they aren't chopped and they'll fill out. *crosses fingers*

 

[DharmaBuns]

woahlookitsme wrote:

There is an old tan build and a new tan build. Older ones are more stocky and thicker boned. Joe Kim started bringing in the newer style tan that is thin and elegant looking and they became popular fast! There are some judges who only like the old standard but most go for the new standard. Of course everyone has their own opinion. I personally have a pet peeve for Hindquarters and don't like chopped tans. Im seeing that in this current litter and its not making me a happy camper. . .

Old Tan
http://www.planet-pets.com/rabt15.jpg

New Tan
http://bunnybreeders.angelfire.com/tan1.jpg

I don't think that I would have loved the Tan half as much if it had the "old" look. I love how they look nowadays, so graceful and elegant.

I really don't mean to throw this thread off topic but..do you happen to have a picture of really chopped hindquarters? I'm still fairly new to Tans and still difficult for me to evaluate a Tan rabbit without having a judge see it first and point out its flaws! lol