Magic's eye still not fully healed (RESOLVED)

[Sabine]

magic was diagnosed with corneal ulcer in her right eye and i have been given an antibiotic ointment to apply 3-5 times a day. Although it has somewhat improved it is still not perfect. The vet said she would scarify the eye if it hasn't cleared up the next time she sees her. i am planning to take her on friday.
Has anyone experience with this procedure? What sort of anastetic is used? The sound of it makes me feel somewhat uneasy

 

[Maureen Las]

I have not had any experience with the procedure but I have a bun right now, who has had a corneal ulcer that seems to resolve and then doesn't???

he initially was not give the correct eye meds and this created a situation of an extended period of time with him having a raging eyeinfection with both systemic and topical meds that just would not work.

Finally I took him to an HRS vet several hundred miles from here and he was given chlroamphenical opthalmic salve; his eye immediately began to improve and now over a month later he is still getting the salve. He seems to have a bit of scar tissue on his eyeball but that may be the result of the extended infection and may not disappearand slightly affect his vision

I looked up scarify and I think that this procedure may be what he is talking about

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5063942.html

 

[Sabine]

I had a look at that link. The discription sounds as bad as I thought. I wonder would that mean general anastetic?
The cream i've been subscribed and been using for the last two weeks is called Fucithalmic. It's the same Raylann was prescribed when she had weepy eyes. seems to be just a general broad spectrum thing, i guess

 

[Maureen Las]

Do you trust the vet to know how to treat rabbits? Does he know a lot about eyes?

The procedure sounds awful but probably isn't (as people have lasik done on their eyes all the time) but probably would require anesthesia
If you have a great doctor he most likely knows what he is doing
however ask him tomorrow why he wants to do this procedure and if it is absolutely necessary.

 

[Sabine]

It's hard to say. She performed three spays and one neuter on my rabbits and seems to have done a good job. The cream seemed to work well on raylann's eyes. But she did say it may not clear up with the cream alone

 

[tonyshuman]

Yikes that does sound a bit extreme. Is there a veterinary eye specialist that your vet consults with, or one in the area?

 

[Sabine]

tonyshuman wrote:

Yikes that does sound a bit extreme. Is there a veterinary eye specialist that your vet consults with, or one in the area?

I am not sure? I am glad i posted because the way she said it it sounded like some routine thing and i expected loads of people telling me their bunny had this done
So I'm somewhat confused. We are still applying the ointment 3-5 times a day and it's looking better but not perfect.Maybe I should take a picture later?
I have an appointment on friday. I assume she will take a stain again and check if the ulcer has gone down. To be honest i don't know what the stain is exactly showing as it looks all orange to me when she does it

 

[Maureen Las]

If the orange dye shows in the pupil their is still an ulcer.

I personally feel that this vet may have some knowledge re. eyes as one that does not ' would not even bring up a procedure like this( but I would ask a lot of questions)

Beau has had an ulcer that kept reoccuring but at one point it disappeared after a week
it is possible that they could do a procedure like this by numbing the eye ..not sure.
Don't worry about it

just insist on anwers as to why it would need to be done or call the vet before you even go to the appt.

 

[ra7751]

Umm....I would get a second....maybe a third opinion about that procedure. Not something I would have done. One thing about eyes....a human opthalmologist can treat a rabbit's eye....eyes are eyes. In the case of an ulcer, I would suggest using a drug called Acetylcysteine. It's technically a mucolytic. It is used in human medicine for some mucus problems in the lungs that are affected by emphysema, pnumonia or other conditions that cause mucus in the lungs. It is also used to protect the liver in Paracetamol Poisoning.....NSAID (like Tylenol, Motrin, etc.) overdose.....think Metacam is perfectly safe? Nope. It is also used in some cases of renal failure. This is an amazing drug. But it can also be used as an eye drop. I have successfully treated a collapsing cornea due to an ulcer and severe infection....and it resolved quickly. I would discuss using this drug with a rabbit savvy vet. I have had excellent success in using this drug. I had to buy this drug from a pharmacy at a large hospital. Not something your local pharmacist (or chemist) will have on hand.And it is a bit expensive. But it hassaved some eyes around here.Worth having around when you have to deal with stubborn corneal ulcers. Good luck.

Randy

 

[Sabine]

Thanks Randy, I will discuss this with the vet on friday (not trying to tread on her toes)

 

[ra7751]

Yea....toes are a little touchy sometimes. But....when it comes to my rabbits, any vet had better be wearing steel toed shoes because I don't mind making suggestions. Many vets are restricted not only by their working knowledge of rabbits (or any other exotic species) but they might also be limited by practice policies or by potential malpractice issues. Many practices require using only printed protocols....bad thing, many of the printed reference materials are outdated. The odd thing is that these same practices use drugs such as Baytril or Sulfa....and, like all drugs, are used "off label" in rabbits. I hope your vet will do some research on using this drug for corneal ulcers. It has been a miracle drug around here for treating corneal ulcers.

Randy

 

[Maureen Las]

I should have been talking to you , Randy, about corneal ulcers aLOOONG time ago..like in Oct as I went through a terrible situation with my bunny Beau who had a corneal ulcer. and horrific eye infection . No one here in la crosse had a clue and his eye was a mess . It would clear up and then flare up again and after 3 antibioticsI went to an animal dentist in Madison and also an exotics vet in the same clinic. Chlorampenical salve did the trick and I mean really fast although Beau still gets it twice a day.

We thought it was dental related but when I saw the dentist last month he said that it was probably trauma related and looking backI think that he may have been batted in the eye by Willow (another bun)
If I had known that you knew eyes too I would have asked you to help me

Maureen

Sabine now you have a lot of info to present to your vet.

 

[ra7751]

Here is one of my eye problem children. This particular infection is resistant Pasteurella with a fully involved corneal ulcer. This was the most difficult infection I had treated up to that point. It was also the very first time any of the vets around here had used anything other than Sulfa or Baytril/Cipro in rabbits. I had to plead a strong case to my primary vet to get to use a different drug. At that time, nobody had used Zithromax...but I pushed my vet to use it as a "Hail Mary" treatment. We were discussing an enucleation....removal of the eye. I didn't feel that Danny could have survived the surgery. With aggressive drug therapy (and Chloramphenicol is a great, safe and effective abx) the ulcer and infection resolved. Danny is by far our oldest male rabbit.....we are estimating his age at about 9 years old....he has been in our sanctuary for nearly 6.

Corneal ulcers are common in rabbit due to the design of their eye...and lots of stiff hay. Ulcers usually start as an abrasion that can be very difficult to see (unless the eye is stained) and can easily become infected. Use of steroids in ulcer situations can lead to substantial damage that can't be corrected. That is why it is so important toknow what meds are being used in ocular issues.

 

[Sabine]

The crean I have been prescribed is called Fucithalmic and I guessed it was a broad spectrum antibiotic since it was also prescribed to Raylann for a different eye condition that cleared up. I hope that cream is not steroid based. I am at work now and can't check it out but I'm rather freaked. I'll take a picture of her eye when I get back.

Thanks for all the advice so far

 

[Maureen Las]

I tried to look fucithalmic up ( I never heard of it here) and i could only find the eye drops not a cream. I am not 100% sure but I do not see that this has any steroids in it.

The pic of Randy's buns is another reminder of how scary eye infections can be.

Maureen

 

[Flashy]

Yes, the Fucithalmic (cream) does seem to be prescribed broadly, as does Tiacil (Eye drops).

It can be hard putting an idea to a vet, but it can really make a difference. You are bright and that means you will be able to put it in the most appealling way, lol, so if anyone stands a shot at doing it withou stepping on toes, you do. When I put Convenia and Zithromax to my vet, he didn't want to know about the Zithi at all, because he's not used it in any animals, but was very receptive to the Convenia and we discussed it and went it with. It made a huge difference to Tilly and was worth the risk of treading on his toes. We sometimes have to fight through uncomfortable situations to get the best for our buns.

Good luck!

 

[Sabine]

Hehe, thanks for the vote of confidence I shall develop a strategy how to put it delicately:biggrin2:

 

[Sabine]

We tried to take close up pictures of her eye earlier but because of her black markings and the light it didn't work out. I found an older picture we took a while back when we spotted the problem first. I don't know if anyone can even see it in the picture. It is not very obvious and not weeping. The eye looks just slightly cloudy and the inside corners of the eye have a slightly ragged appearance

 

[pamnock]

Corneal ulcers are also more common in some breeds (such as Holland Lops) due to a defect in the eyelid (entropian) causing abnormal wear on the cornea. I've seen this condition numerous times. In some instances, a small "v" can be noted in the eyelid. In extreme cases, the eyelid is turned in.

Surgery on the eyelid can correct this condition.

Pam

 

[Sabine]

pamnock wrote:

Corneal ulcers are also more common in some breeds (such as Holland Lops) due to a defect in the eyelid (entropian) causing abnormal wear on the cornea. I've seen this condition numerous times. In some instances, a small "v" can be noted in the eyelid. In extreme cases, the eyelid is turned in.

Surgery on the eyelid can correct this condition.

Pam

Magic is a dwarf lop cross. How does the v-shaped defect present? i can't really picture it. I haven't noticed anything unusual in her eyelids but not sure what I'm looking for.