Lucile Moore's new book: Rabbit Nutrition & Nutritional Healing

[LakeCondo]

Has anyone looked at this book, which came out at the end of April? The 5 reviews for it on Amazon are 5-stars.

One of the things I noticed while looking at the introductory pages is that she advocates some but not a lot of pellets daily. And I'm sure there are lots of other interesting things as well.

Just thought I'd ask before ordering it.

 

[pamnock]

Lucile Moore always puts out excellent publications - I'd most certainly purchase it to add to your library.

 

[LakeCondo]

Well, I ordered the book just now from Amazon. It may take 3 weeks to ship, but when I finally get it & start reading it I'll probably post some of what it says. Doing a search in the book I could tell readers needed to be able to keep track of biological terms like lipids, various sugars, etc. So it's not for everyone.
I'm especially looking forward to reading what it says about fats. I'd gotten the impression that too little fat was an issue only for malnourished rabbits or those with dry skin, but apparently this is not the case.

 

[LakeCondo]

Well, the book has arrived. I'm going to quote or summarize parts of it, so others can decide if they want to get it themselves. This will take a number of posts, I'm sure.

Basically the theme is that the currently accepted beliefs about diet are too rigid; that the range of foods that rabbits can eat is wider than most people think. To a large extent this sounds reasonable, but I think there are better & worse choices; that some things may be ok most of the time but one of them could be the last straw that brings about something serious. I'm not sure Moore emphasizes this enough.

For example "... rabbit owners have read or heard that rabbits should not consume apple seeds. Apple seeds do contain a chemical that is broken down to cyanide by stomach acid, but the truth is that there is so little of this compound in the seeds that if your rabbit were to consume an entire apple, seeds and all [or even two or three] most likely you would see no negative effects. The same is true of oxalates. While there is no doubt animals can get oxalate poisoning, this is most likely to occur only if very large amounts are consumed." I think some people need to have it spelled out that if their rabbit accidently eats some apple seeds or spinach, it probably will be ok, but neither should be added to the rabbit diet.

TO BE CONTINUED

 

[Bunnylova4eva]

oh, another very good rabbit book recomended to me by others on here is When Your Rabbit Needs Special Care: Traditional and Alternative Healing Methods by Lucile Moore and Kathy Smith. I got it for christmas (good excuse for a bunny book) and I'm really enjoying it

 

[LakeCondo]

Mia, does it give information on diagnosis as well?

I bought the co-author Kathy Smith's book & frankly was a bit disappointed by a couple of things. First, there is no index. I can't imagine why the publisher didn't insist on one. So you have to rely on the table of contents to find anything. This increases the second problem: if your rabbit has a few symptoms & you don't know what's wrong, you have to read about a number of ailments & see which, if any, have symptoms like your rabbit has.

Does anyone know about a book or website where you can start out with a symptom, then are presented with diseases or problems that have this symptom? Then you could look these diseases or problems up & see which 1 or 2 seem most likely.

 

[Bunnylova4eva]

I have The Rabbit Handbook by Karen Gendron. ITs really good I think. It more lists the disease/illness, informatoin about it and then the symptoms of each thing after talking about it.

 

[LakeCondo]

I have that book too, but unfortunately the disease comes first, so you have to go through all diseases to see which have what symptoms.

 

[LakeCondo]

The book has a good discussion of baby rabbits' digestion. Mother's milk has a pH of 5.0-6.5, low cf an adult rabbit's digestive pH. A reaction to the milk in the baby's stomach creates antimicrobials that discourage bacterial growth. Then at 2-3 weeks the babies eat some of mom's cecotrophs, which give them the ability to eat solid food.

From 3-9 weeks the cecum increases in size and the pH rises to adult levels. This is a critical time diet-wise; changes should be slow. The diet should be high in fiber & low in protein & starch. The doe's diet should be different at this time, with higher protein.

Recommended percentages of protein are as follows:
3-9 weeks 12-13
lactating 18-21
pregnant 14
long-haired 17-20
large breeds 17-20
all other 12-16
Too little protein can cause slow growth in bunnies and weight loss in adults. Hair may be thin and/or reddish. "Excess protein puts a strain on the liver and kidneys, increase urine production, ... digestive upsets ..."

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[LakeCondo]

On pellets: "There are many excellent pelleted rabbit feeds on the market today that provide nutritionally balanced diets for rabbits. The claim by some persons that rabbit pellets are made for fattening short-lived production rabbits and are unhealthy for longer-lived rabbits is dated and simply not true. Many commercially pelleted rabbit feeds are specifically created to fulfill the needs of 'companion', 'pet', or 'show' rabbits. Nor is it true that a pellet-based diet will necessarily lead to overweight rabbits ...

"While it is THEORETICALLY possible to feed a rabbit a nutritionally complete diet without giving any commercial pellets, it is extremely difficult to do. It has been estimated by some experts that it would take a precise combination of about 14-17 different vegetables fed in specific amounts ... to provide a rabbit a nutritionally complete diet composed of fresh vegetables and hay alone." Even if we had the time or money to find these items, how would we get the rabbits to eat all 14-17 in the right proportions?

TO BE CONTINUED

 

[NorthernAutumn]

The RO library contains information about many rabbit illnesses.
RO Lagomorph Library: Rabbit Health
http://rabbitsonline.net/view_forum.php?id=10

It is searchable using the search engine at the top of the page - you can write in a symptom there, and search the infirmary or the RO library.

Also, try MediRabbit.

(LakeCondo, please be cautious about how much of the text you are quoting - both of the authors have spent time here at the forum. I'm sure you would agree that wouldn't be good to look as if their book is being reproduced here, without payment to them. )

 

[LakeCondo]

NorthernAutumn wrote

(LakeCondo, please be cautious about how much of the text you are quoting - both of the authors have spent time here at the forum. I'm sure you would agree that wouldn't be good to look as if their book is being reproduced here, without payment to them. )

I believe I AM being cautious. As I stated in an early post, I am giving information to help people decide if they want to buy it or not. If anything, I'm acting as an unpaid publicist.

 

[LakeCondo]

In the chapter on sugars: "Very young rabbits in particular can develop fatal digestive problems if given too much sugar they do not have the ability to process. Very young rabbits still on their mother's milk have a high ability to digest the milk sugars, lactose and galactose, but little ability to digest fructose." This slowly reverses after weaning.

"Nuts, seeds and grains can be particularly valuable sources of energy for large rabbits like the giant breeds, wool rabbits such as angoras, fur rabbits such as Rex, and any rabbit living where ambient temperatures are low. ... Most healthy adult rabbits will suffer no harm and may benefit from the addition of about one tablespoon of grain such as rolled oats, a tablespoon of seeds such as raw pumpkin seeds, and [This surely should be "or"] a teaspoon or so of nut meats such as almonds or walnuts. This is for rabbits between 4-6 pounds, decrease the amounts slightly for smaller rabbits and increase it slightly for larger ones."

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Well, I think that's enough to give you an idea. There's a lot more about vitamins & minerals & how much specific veggies etc have of them. And so on.

And some book sellers seem to feel that this is going to be a collectible some day. All the copies for sale through Amazon but not offered from Amazon are priced at over $50. The Amazon price is $15-16.

 

[NorthernAutumn]

LakeCondo wrote:

NorthernAutumn wrote

(LakeCondo, please be cautious about how much of the text you are quoting - both of the authors have spent time here at the forum. I'm sure you would agree that wouldn't be good to look as if their book is being reproduced here, without payment to them. )

I believe I AM being cautious. As I stated in an early post, I am giving information to help people decide if they want to buy it or not. If anything, I'm acting as an unpaid publicist.

Sorry, I will be more direct: Let's keep it to indirect quotations, please.
The forum can't afford a legal issue with the paid publicists, lol !

NorthernAutumn

 

[oryctolaguslady]

I hope you will forgive me for what is probably a bit of bad manners, but I am the author of the book you have been posting aboutI have just joined RO. Although in general you may legally quote up to 40 words from a book, I freely give you permission to quote more in this particular thread, if you wish.

Also, Lake Condo, in my first rabbit book, "A House Rabbit Primer," I do have a large section (and also a chart) where I give signs/symptoms and then possible causes. Kathy Smith andI did not do that in "When Your Rabbit needs Special Care," but we do have a fairly good index.

I take your point Lake Condo thatI could have been a bit more cautious in stating about amounts and kinds of foods in the nutrition book - I do mention several times you must take age, breed, health, gender, etc. into consideration, but I also think I sometimes assume knowledge a reader may not have. For your info I intend to do a second edition very soon (so the first may in fact become a collector's item!) and will make several changes in response to feedback. If you have more constructive suggestions I would be glad to hear them.

 

[LakeCondo]

Thank you. If so, it'd probably be by PM. I'm glad my thought that you were a non-dogmatic author is confirmed.

 

[NorthernAutumn]

Wonderful to have you here on RO, Ms. Moore!

Thank you very much for your flexibility in regards to quotes in this thread - very kind of you to give permission.

You may be particularly interested in the Infirmary, and Nutrition and Behaviour sections of the board...

Looking forward to many interesting future conversations

NorthernAutumn
Sr.Mod/Administration

 

[slavetoabunny]

Bunnylova4eva wrote:

oh, another very good rabbit book recomended to me by others on here is When Your Rabbit Needs Special Care: Traditional and Alternative Healing Methods by Lucile Moore and Kathy Smith. I got it for christmas (good excuse for a bunny book) and I'm really enjoying it

I have this book and love it! It is one of the best rabbit health books that I have ever read. I have read it cover to cover.

 

[oryctolaguslady]

Thank you for the welcome to RO, NorthernAutumn. I enjoy learning from others' experiences with their rabbits and hope to discover new topics of interest to those with rabbits for future editions of my books.

 

[MiniLopHop]

I'm so excited, I just ordered the book! I have the "House Rabbit Primer" and "When Your Rabbit Needs Special Care: Traditional and Alternative Healing Methods" already. They were excellent so I'm excited to read this one too. As a biologist it will be nice to get more details on the nutrition.

Ms. Moore, thank you for joining us. It's great to haveanother personso very knowledgeable to add to the conversations. To rabbit people you are quite the celebrity