Loss of use of back legs

[grumpybabies]

I have been trying not to bother you guys withthis but i am getting desperate for help, i have a little boy calledHarley who since i got him hasn't been big and it did concern me aftera few days of having he seemed to have lost weight but i felt otherrabbits of his age and he seemed similar in size and weight, but thenanother couple of days passed and he seemed to not use one of his backlegs as much. I thought it was just a sprain or something so we didn'tworry. But then a couple of days later he started fallingover, and then he lost all use of both of his back legs suddenly overnight before we could get him to a vet. So anyway we took him to thevets that day and they suggested it may be E. Cunicili or however youspell it sorry, and he had an injection, and some baytril and we weregiven a month's worth of wormer and by the next day he was runningabout quite well, his back legs worked again, but 2 dayslater they havegone again. He is happy in himself but he has to drag himself with hisfront legs and obviously this is no quality of life for him so pleasehelp.

 

[Flashy]

Ok, have you heard of floppy rabbit syndrome? Could it be that?

It might be worth getting some vitamin E into him, incase it is.

Also, a trip back to the vets might be in order so that they can try and find out what is going on.

I had an old rabbit lose the use of his back legs, but then regain it. Presumably that was some sort of stroke.

However, I have also had rabbits with floppy rabbit syndrome, and thatis something they can repeatedly get. But obviously this might not bethat.

How is the rest of his muscle tone, does he feel floppy, weak or shakey? Or is the rest of him quite normal?

 

[grumpybabies]

I vaguely remember reading about it but i can'tremember exactly, i will look it up, and yes i am definitely taking himto the vets don't worry, and he has no musclesreally the vetsaid that hedidn't have much there andthank you forsuch a quick reply!

 

[Flashy]

Ok. I really suggest that you try and get somevitamin E into him because if it is FRS they can go down quick. Thequicker they get the vitamin E, the better.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~jabuck/WARCI/other_ailments.htm

http://www.pet-manual.co.uk/showthread/t-29413.html

Maybe those might help with explaining it, and then also give you ideas for what to give him with Vit E in.

I hope it's not this, and that it is something that can easily be sorted.

 

[Pipp]

Grumpy, can you put your location in yourprofile? Treatments differ from area to area. Anyadditional info about the bunny will help, too.

For now, in addition to Flashy's post, here's a link to one fairlyrecent EC thread (sorry, I'm in a bit of a rush), and it contains otherEC links worth checking out.

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=18038&forum_id=16&highlight=panacur

And definitely check out Randy's posts, do a ROsearch for Randy, he has some great info.



sas ray:

 

[grumpybabies]

Thanks just had a quick read of those, and itsounds a bit like it, but would he get better and then go down hillagain if it is Flopsy?

 

[Flashy]

Ours did. She got totally better, and then got ill again.

Sometimes it can be reoccuring, but sometimes it only happens once, or they grow out of it.

We had two bouts with a bun close together, when she was about 3 monthsold, and then it never happened again (she lived to be six). Her sisterhowever, died from it (as did another one of her sisters, but we didn'town that one). So the siblings of this bun might also be at risk (as Ibelieve it is a genetic thing), just so you know to watch them.

I found some vitamins at pets at home the other day that ispredominantly vit E, and I have got some incase it happens to any ofour buns again. If it does turn out to be this, it might be worthinvesting in something similar, or always having something on hand youcan give them.

 

[grumpybabies]

We bought him from a pet shop so the siblingsisn't a problem, well for me anyway, poor things, i will get some tombut how will i know how much to give him? May i find him dead one day?Well actually he lives with my boyfriend but you know what i mean..

 

[Flashy]

With ours, once they went down, they went downhard. With Skippy (the bun that died) she was laying flat out onemorning, after being fine the night before, and then died thatafternoon.

Smudge, who we managed to save went down hard the same way, but wemanaged to get powdered baby rice (what the vet had suggested withSkippy)into her early on, and for some reason that seemed towork and my dad fed her back to health over the week. A week or solater she was really floppy, but not totally out stretched andstruggling like she did before, so we started feeding her powdered babyrice straight away, and she responded straight away.

This all happened way back in '95, and only recently did I hear of FRSand put two and two together. In my eyes there can't be anything elsethat this was. It totally fits FRS.

If he starts to deteriorate further, then it is possible that he willfall hard (if he does have FRS) and that might be the end Havingsaid that, there is the possibility that it's not this at all. He mighthave something wrong with his spine, or anything else like that. Allyou can do is do your best and keep fighting for and with him.

 

[dajeti2]

My heart and prayers go out to you and Harley.

Perhaps I'm not totally understanding. I would really do like you areget him back to the vet and try to figure out what is going on with thepoor baby. I know you must be experiencing a flood of emotions. I havea saying I try to live by in times of hardship, Prepare for the worst,Hope for the best.

Paralysis doesn't always mean loss of joy and will to live. I know afew rabbits that are paralyzed and are still living life to thefullest. I myself was in the process of adopting one but he passed awaybefore he could get here. There are plenty of options.

You and Harley will most definitely be in my thoughts and prayrs. Fingers crossed it is something treatable.

 

[TinysMom]

If I remember correctly - e cunniculi can lead to paralysis of the back legs.

We thought GingerSpice had a stroke and that was what we were told it most likely was.

Afterwards, Art came across an article about it and one of the things that could happen - was paralysis of the hindquarters..

Peg

 

[ra7751]

Hi Grumpybabies,

The symptoms you describe are consistant with ecunculi. This is a protozoa, the simplest form of life onearth, that has invaded the brain. It is spread thru theurine of an infected rabbitor at birth from an infectedmother. Nearly all domestic rabbits have hadexposure. In the best situation, the rabbit's immune systemwill keep this organism under control. However, once itbreaks out, bad things happen. Usually the first indicationof a problem is a "lazy leg"...a leg that might drag every once in awhile. Then the rabbit will become very unstable in the hindquarter and will eventually go down on his side. Over thenext few days, there may be marked improvement with the bun upright andin many cases running around. This is the rabbit's immunesystem mounting a counter attack. However, EC is a wastingdisease that will cause a general decline in health over a period ofmonths and sometimes years. The spores will damage thekidneys and renal failure is very likely over a period oftime. Due to a compromised immune system, a bun with EC isvery likely to have multiple bacterial infections during the course ofthis disease. As the disease progresses, the rabbit will losenearly all of the hind quarter voluntary function and usually one ofthe legs will become very rigid. Urinary incontinence fromthe damaged kidneys will usually result in painful scalding.

The only way to confirm EC by diagnostics is post mortem.There is an "EC Titer" which is an advanced blood panel thatspecifically looks for antibodies to EC. The results aresubject to interpretation. The test is not fool proof, iscostly and only a couple of labs can perform this test.

Treatment is difficult. There are many that claim thativermectin will cure this issue. There are those that claimantibiotics will cure it. Simply not true. It's nota bacteria so an antibiotic will have no effect. Problem withmany of the treatments is getting the drug past the blood/brainbarrier. The latest treatment, with mixed results, is withthe "bendazoles"...with the latest being Panacur. It'sbasically a horse wormer. Standard procedure for treating ECis a daily round for at least 30 days..and we treat for 60.Honestly, and we have treated several here in rescue, I really have notseen any treatment be anything other than marginally effective. Andwith the current treatment, the best we can do is buy time.There is some work on using a drug called "Marquis" that is used totreat Equine Protozoal Myeloencephalitis (EPM) in horses. Nofirm results on that due to the small number of unofficial researchbeing done. Most of this treatment is being done by some ofthe more advanced exotic vets working in the field.

Rabbits with EC can live quite a while after issues arise. Infact, we have known of some buns that go into a type ofremission. Generally, the disease takes away a little at atime. Good husbandry from their humans can make thissituation much better for the rabbit. They will lose muscletone as they have difficulty moving around. A good massageand gently working those rear legs can help. Be on constantguard for bacterial infections that seem mainly to involve eyes, upperrespiratory and urinary tract. Hydration, by sub-q or IV ifnecessary, will be required to support the damaged kidneys as thedisease progresses. The rabbit will lose weight and have ageneral overall decline in all aspects of life.

I can't stress the importance of TLC when dealing with thisissue. Buns will give up quite easily so if EC is theproblem, extra care will help. There are also companies thatcan build very stable carts to assist with mobility. I knowthis post sounds all gloom and doom. I don't mean it to bethat way. Yoda is a very special rabbit that lived with usfor years. As he aged, he developed EC. He lived avery good life right up until the last week or so of hislife. We just could not overcome the kidney damage.But he lived over two years after the first indication of aproblem. We did some aggressive husbandry...but it was worthall the effort. We feel the extra TLC did as much,if not more, than all thedrugs we used in treatingthis.If you have any questions, feel free to contact me byPM. Best wishes.

Randy

 

[grumpybabies]

Thanks for all the replies, it does sound likeE. thingy lol, one weak leg to start with etc, and that is what the vetwas treating him for, and he is on wormer for a month. I will try andtake him to the vet again today or tom, and he only went down hillyesterday when it was too late to get to a vets, so i'm not neglectinghim don't worry. He lives with another rabbit and he lives in the areaof another 7 rabbits, but as it is passed through urine, i guess it isonly the one with it at risk? But like the last post my vet said allrabbits are exposed to it or have it in them and only some areaffected like this is that right? So shall i seperate him andhis flatmate?

And you say rabbits can go on for years fighting it but suffering frominfections along the way, is this fair on him? I know this is where youhad problems with MBH that they wouldn't risk their other rabbits, buti am worried about his quality of life although it is good at themoment and he is a heart bunny of mine and my boyfriends, who didn'teven like rabbits a few years ago! I think i will bring him home withme to live here in an indoor cage so he can have constant tlc, wellapart from when i am at work.

 

[rabb1tmad]

Both of my rabbits had suspected e-cuniculi andboth have recovered well but it takes a little while for them torecover. Lacey had balance problems and a slight tilt and she has nowrecovered fully but it took around 6 months for her to regain herbalance. Starsky was harder to diagnose and he suffered from moresevere loss of balance than Lacey but he is recovering really well sofar. Rabbits can and do recover from this. Before laceys illness myrabbits were indoors in winter and outside during spring/summer - sinceher illness I brought them indoors for good (although they do go out intheir outside run in the summer). I just felt that I could keep acloser eye on them indoors and they really do prefer being with us inthe house.

I guess each rabbit handles it differently and it takes patience andtender loving care to help them through it. Lacey hasn't had anyrecurrences, it's a little too early to tell with Starsky. I know it isa heartbreaking thing to go through but you are giving your bunny allthe possible chances with the treatment. As for quality of life - Ialways said with mine that if they are eating, drinking and look happy(and aren't in any pain) then it's wellworth fighting. Fromthe symptoms you have described your rabbit is in the early stages andyou have caught it quick enough and he is getting the treatment. Allyou can do now is support your rabbit and wait and see.

Keep us posted with developments - the people on this forum offer a wealth of experience and support. Good luck xx

 

[ra7751]

Hi Again,

I like the "E thingy"....the real name is even more difficult to spelland pronounce Encephalitozoon cuniculi . This is avery misunderstood situation. We lost our rescue's namesaketo this condition and didn't even know it. And that was onlya few years ago. We now know that she was afflicted with thisillness. Had we known then what we know now, she mightpossibly still be with us. But at that time, the only thingrabbits got was "snuffles". How wrong thingswere.There is still misinformation out there thathead tilt is the only thing that happens with EC. In reality,there is no clinical evidence that the tilt is primary to theEC. In rabbits with systemic EC, the immune system isoverwhelmed in it's fight against this parasite. Our Yodasuffered chronic bacterial infections as he fought EC for a couple ofyears. His infections were manifested in his ears (and hetilted numerous times), upper respiratory and urinary. Themost serious, and what will eventually allow the EC to win the battle,is the damage to the kidneys. That is why, as I havementioned in several previous posts on EC, that supporting the renalsystem via supplemental hydration is so important. Ipersonally feel that every pet owner should know how toand beprepared to administer supplemental hydration.

I would not separate the bonded pair as this will only increase thestress levels which will make things worse. And since mostbunnies have already been exposed at some point to EC, you want to makethings as stress free as possible to keep both buns' immune system upto par. And in reality, if your other bun had not beenexposed, it's too late now. Exposure has alreadyoccurred. And a side note about EC...it is zoonotic whichmeans it can be passed from your rabbit to humans. Should beno big deal unless someone in your household has a depressed immunesystem for some reason. Most people's immune system has noproblem handling this bug.

You asked if fighting the infection was fair to the rabbit.Why don't you ask him? I do not like to euthanize ( I call it"Doing the deed") but I will when necessary. Listen to yourbun. He will let you know when it's time. And hewill fight if he senses you are fighting with him. Amazinghow that happens. Yoda fought up until lastSeptember. And there was one particular evening that I knewhe was ready because he told me....just listen. May he binkyfree at the Bridge. Best wishes and keep us updated.

Randy

 

[pamnock]

More Info:

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=490&S=5&SourceID=43

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/paresis.html

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-2/e-cuniculi.html

http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/barney.shtml

 

[ani-lover]

wow! a lot of rabits seem to be getting thisproblem lately. tabby has a similar problem i suspected it to be ecuniculi but the vet said no. he is being treated for an inflamation inthe spine and is going to get a mri. he shows some improvement but somedays it gets worse. good luck!