Long Term Gas Problems

[sidney_bunny]

Hello,

I think I've read just about every gas thread I could find in the archives. We've been dealing with gas problems for the past year or two.

Sidney is 6 years old, male, and has always had some food sensitivities that would lead to messy cecotropes. The last year or two his gas problem has gotten worse and is almost an everyday issue.

I am hoping to get opinions on two main issues.

1. Does anyone know if .5cc of simethicone twice per day - every day - will cause long term damage given his age? His weight is 4.5lbs ~2000 grams.

2. He has been on 1 measured tablespoon of Oxbow pellets twice per day for a few years now. No veggies for years. I have tried to reduce the amount of pellets over the past two weeks but saw no change. I guess we are at the point of eliminating pellets. I am concerned about him being hungry and the lack of variety from a nutritional perspective. The only other food item that we don't think is a problem is canned pumpkin. Any experience with this?

FWIW, he eats a decent amount of hay. I order 20 lb boxes of first and second cut from a farm and it's improved his consumption compared to the Oxbow/American Pet Diner stuff we used in the past.

Thank you very much in advance...

 

[JBun]

I had a rabbit that couldn't have any pellets at all. not even a pinch of them, or he would get an upset stomach and eventually go into stasis if I kept feeding them. So pellets could still be your culprit. Usually it's the process of elimination to figure out which food is causing the problem. Sometimes you have to cut back to hay only, always ensuring bun is eating the hay well and making sure it also isn't causing any upset, and then gradually try adding other items back in one at a time and carefully monitor for any signs of upset. For my bun with the pellet issue, I noticed about half hour after eating just a few pellets, that he would start belly pressing and eye squinting, so I knew he was uncomfortable. If on hay only and your bun still has gas, I've known of some rabbits to be sensitive to particular types of hay especially richer type hays, so changing hay is even sometimes necessary.

If you do cut back to hay only, it's always good to weigh your bun at least weekly to make sure he isn't losing too much weight. For my bun that didn't get pellets, I did add in a little bit of high protein alfalfa hay to help him keep weight on, but if you do this you have to make sure your bun has no bladder sludge or kidney issues, as it is high in calcium. If you do try alfalfa, make sure to introduce it slowly into the diet, to try and minimize chances of it causing digestive upset. I've also used black oil sunflower seeds to help keep weight on an old bun that was sensitive to other foods that I would normally use to help put weight on. So that might be another option if you can't give alfalfa and you find your bun isn't keeping enough weight on with just grass hay. I haven't tried pumpkin but I know of others that have fed it without problems, but that's not saying your bun might not be sensitive to it.

With simethicone, as long as your bun doesn't seem to have any sort of sensitivity to it, it is supposed to be pretty safe as it is indigestible, so doesn't go into the blood stream. I have read of other rabbits that have had to be on it daily, without any seemingly ill effects. Keep in mind that some buns can be sensitive to the artificial sweeteners commonly used in infant simethicone, and those artificial sugars can actually sometimes cause gas or digestive upset themselves, so if you use infant gas drops and notice your bun not doing well after their use, another option is using the adult gel caps that don't contain any sweeteners, and squeezing out the capsule and drawing up the liquid into a needless syringe to administer orally.

 

[sidney_bunny]

Thanks for giving me a few new things to think about. Did your bun have this problem with pellets from day 1 or did it evolve over time? (our problem has progressively gotten worse starting with veggies)

I skipped the pellets this evening and will continue to do so for a few days. He is already acting dramatic begging for dinner and hunting around to find it.

We're only on only timothy right now and he mostly eats the 2nd cut. In case anyone else is reading the archive, Sierra Valley Hay company has really saved us in terms of getting his hay consumption up just because of the quality/freshness. I can switch to orchard grass later if absolutely necessary.

I hear you on alfalfa. Our last bunny suffered from bladder sludge to the point I was giving him sub-q fluids regularly to keep it diluted. It was a rough two years.

I am using Little Remedies gas drops. They claim to be dye free and "natural berry flavor". I don't see any active or inactive ingredients for the flavoring. I will check this out online. I never would have thought to check this. I really appreciate this tip.

 

[JBun]

My buns digestive problems were actually a problem he developed when he first came to me. He wasn't used to people and became very stressed as a result. This caused him to develop a serious case of stasis, and from this it damaged his digestive system. It was after his recovery from stasis that he started having problems with pellets.

I did have an older bun that gradually became more sensitive to certain foods, but her problem was mushy poop from it. She used to have an iron gut and nothing used to upset her digestion, then towards the last couple of years of her life, she gradually became more sensitive to pellets and other high carb foods, so I had to reduce her pellets to a very small amount and limited her treats to leafy greens and forage.

I've never had problems with feeding leafy greens to my rabbits, but then I am pretty selective about which ones I feed to my buns. I never feed cruciferous veg or greens, or high starch veg. I usually stick with leafy greens, and the same greens that I know my buns are good with and used to eating. But I know of plenty of other buns that have sensitivities to certain veg/greens, so every bun is different.

One thing I do with buns that have food sensitivities, is once I have found a few foods that they are good with, I stick with them and don't experiment with adding things into their diet anymore. It helps avoid encountering problems with digestive upset. With my bun that couldn't have pellets, I wanted him to be able to have a few other nice things besides grass hay. He loved the alfalfa, and he also got some dark leaf lettuce and a little parsley, and that was it. I never changed his diet around once I found these few foods he was safe with. If you aren't able to give your bun any leafy greens at all, forage may be another option to add a little variety into your buns diet if you have access to any rabbit safe forage plants/trees. I've found willow and apple leaves are pretty well tolerated and my buns absolutely love them, so that is their daily treat.

The infant gas drops aren't usually a problem for most rabbits, but I thought I would mention it because I did have one bun that it actually caused more digestive upset for her. I narrowed it down to artificial sweeteners that caused the problem because any medication that I gave her with this in it, upset her stomach. It's rare but it can happen, so just something to be aware of. Even if it has natural sweeteners in it, some rabbits can be sensitive to any excessive sugar in the diet, my non pellet bun was and I have a megacolon bun that has a very sensitive digestive system too and can't tolerate sugars/carbs. In fact most of the digestive issues I have had to deal with have involved sugar/carb sensitivities. So I just use the gas x gelcaps to avoid this problem altogether whenever I am dealing with a gassy stomach in my rabbits.

 

[sidney_bunny]

It's been 4-5 days with no pellets. He seemed to improve almost right away in terms of activity level. When he's not feeling well he stays mostly in his cage even though the door is always open. After cutting out pellets, except for one evening, he's been exploring around the rest of the house on a regular basis. He's even been jumping and twisting in the air.

He is upset about missing his pellets. I've substituted a spoonful of pumpkin but he's still chewing on his cage bars in protest, standing on two feet to beg, and his other usual ways he tries to get my attention. I feel bad and worry he is hungry even though he has freshly cut hay.

I wish I could find a substitute pellet or something else to feed him but I fear experimenting will be too tough on him. If anyone has had trouble with Oxbow Adult pellets and found an alternative, it would be great to know.

Thanks

 

[JBun]

One thing you could try is a plain hay pellet. It doesn't contain anything but chopped compressed hay, though you do want to make sure of this when reading the ingredient list as different brands could contain added ingredients. I used the plain hay pellets for my bun that couldn't have the rabbit food pellets, and he liked them. I did use the ones that were a mix of timothy with alfalfa for him. I fed a small portion of these along with regular hay, and it seemed to keep him happy, cause he had difficulty too when I was just feeding him the long stem hay with no pellets. Most buns are used to having pellets and aren't happy if they don't get at least some each day, so this seemed to satisfy that craving for him. I don't know if it will for your bun, but it might be something worth trying.

If you don't want to use ones with alfalfa in them(because of the higher calcium and bladder sludge risks), there are also plain timothy pellets. They aren't as popular as the alfalfa mix ones with my current buns, but they still like them. I use the Standlee brand as I didn't like the quality of the local feed stores own brand of hay pellets. If you want to give it a try you should be able to get some at your local feed store, or if you are in the US, I looked and you can order the standlee pellets off amazon if you don't mind paying $20 extra for shipping, though it is for a 40lb bag, which would last quite a while for one bun, as long as it's kept in a dry environment.
http://standleeforage.com/products#filter=.format-pellets
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=standlee+pellets

I tried several different types of rabbit food pellets for my bun that had problems and I never could find one that didn't upset his stomach. I finally just gave up because I didn't want to keep risking him going into stasis. The problem is most rabbit food pellets contain added molasses and grain products, and in my experience those are usually what cause the most digestive issues. It's pretty hard to find a rabbit food pellet that doesn't contain those things, unless you are in the UK. They do have a few that don't I believe.