kidney disease/issues

[DarkRosa]

Just wondering if anyone here has had any problems with their buns getting kidney disease/infections/etc?
My little Hotot x (was a year old in August, and he is neutered) was just recently put on antibiotics for hopefully just an infection. He had his urine checked, and there were a lot of casts shed from his kidneys, into his urine.
I have also changed his pellets as per his vet, different brand, and different hay, just in case its some sort of contamination with his food, and no veggies/treats (he really isn't happy about this).
The only reason I took him in, was that I noticed his wood (aspen) chips were red, and when I picked them up they were wet, so I wasn't sure if it was staining from the urine, or if it was blood, so to the vet he wet and voila, he has an issue.
He is still eating/drinking/active as normal, so that wasn't a sign that anything was wrong.
Has anyone had any problems with kidneys? I know 1 person who has, her little Netherland Dwarf intact male had kidney failure, and he was fine, other than drinking a lot of water, he showed no other signs. I am just wondering what you did for treatment, etc for the guys.

 

[Imbrium]

ray: I've got no advice to offer, but I hope he improves quickly!

 

[DarkRosa]

Thank you Imbrium, and sorry for the slow reply!
He's doing ok so far, went off food since starting him on the chloramphenicol, other than some greens, so am stopping the meds for the weekend to see what happens, and take him back in for another urine test on Tuesday to see how it's doing.
It's weird that now on the medication, he looks like a sick bun, decreased energy and appetite, hopefully it's just from the antibiotics, so we will see. I will update next week once the urine test is done.

 

[JBun]

Just an fyi in case you don't already know, but you shouldn't do sudden pellet changes as it can cause digestive problems. Changing grass hays shouldn't matter though.

I don't know much about this or this particular antibiotic as I've only used baytril with my rabbits. If you aren't giving a probiotic a couple hours afterward, that is something you will want to be doing. If that antibiotic is making him sick, you may want to do some research on it and it's effect on rabbits.

I hope your little guy gets to feeling better soon. I'm sorry he's not feeling well.

 

[Imbrium]

yeah, if you're giving antibiotics, I highly recommend giving probiotics as well, since antibiotics can upset his tummy. sometimes you can find them at pet stores or feed stores and I think many vets carry them.

 

[DarkRosa]

Thank you for the info JBun. I did word that wrong, he did have new pellets (Martin) in one bowl and a seperate bowl of his usual (Oxbow Essentials) so he did have a choice, but was eating neither. His hay was still Timothy but a different brand from the Oxbow.
Since not giving him his last couple of doses of antibiotics he is perking up, getting a bit more active, eating and drinking a bit more (I didn't realize until my boyfriend mentioned that he wasn't drinking as much....I feel bad, but my BF is home more than I am so he did notice that, thankfully).
I am going to leave things as is, which is no antibiotics for now (as per his vet), take him back in Tuesday for another urine test, and leaving him on his Oxbow pellets, but going to limit his greens and treats, and see what happens. As long as he is more active (not laying in his litterbox all day), eating and drinking more, I am happy.
I will also look into the side effects of the meds (my old rabbit was on it a few times with no problems, so never thought of doing so), and ask next week about trying Baytril if there is still a problem with his urine.

 

[naturestee]

Hi! I'm sorry your little bun is sick. Could you tell us more about his diet? One of my friends (Myheart on the forum- you can try messaging her) had a rabbit that had kidney stones and frequent UTIs. Have you had a blood test done to check for kidney function? You can do a cheaper kidney/liver panel if you suspect more issues than a simple UTI or you could spring for the full blood panel which would also give you white blood cell counts and a lot of other potentially useful numbers. A full blood panel is what helped us understand why one of my elder buns was loosing weight, being lethargic, and being anemic (repeat tests showed he wasn't making red or white blood cells properly and his bone marrow is thought to be malfunctioning). If kidney issues are suspected, then an xray could also be done to see if there are stones stuck in the kidneys.

If there is a chronic kidney problem in a rabbit, it's best to manage the diet to get more fluids in. When you fed veggies, how much of the diet did they make up? I'm really surprised your vet had you cut out all veggies if they were not causing any poop issues. Myheart's bunny, who was treated by my favorite rabbit vet, was put on a reduced pellet and then a no pellet diet with large amounts of veggies. This increased the amount of fluid in her system, which helps flush the kidneys out and also reduces strain on the kidneys.

I wouldn't worry much about kidney issues in a young rabbit that was healthy until having a recent UTI, but it is good to know what to look for.

 

[DarkRosa]

Grrrr, I had a reply typed out on my phone....and my phone froze and crashed on me!!
Naturestee - he doesn't have a UTI or stones, it's casts that are shed from the tubes between the kidneys and bladder. I have thought of doing a bloodtest, so will see what Tuesdays results say and take it from there, my only problem I see with that, is that he isn't a fan of being help/handled at all, so taking blood may be an issue, the antibiotics are a fight with him.
His usual diet is Oxbow Essentials pellets (I give him a 1/2 cup scoop and it usually lasts him 2 days), he also gets unlimited Timothy hay (Oxbow) and maybe 1-2 cups of greens a day, which consists but not limited to, parsley, kale, cilantro, dill, broccoli, endive, cauliflower, the prepackaged salad/spring green mix, apple, pear, and just small amounts of each to make a varied salad, just depends on what I have in the fridge.
I was the one that cut his veggies out when he wasn't eating the other day, I wanted him to eat his hay and drink more water on his own, which is why I did it.
I was previously thinking of putting him on a higher veggie diet, but will wait on that until he is feeling better and we have this sorted out.
All of the suggestions/ideas/words of well wishes are greatly appreciated. I almost feel like I am sounding difficult at times with some responses, but I don't mean to, so I apologize if that seems the case! I really do appreciate everything! As first mentioned, I never would have taken him in if I didn't see those red wood shavings, so all this is just....hard to grasp that he MAY be very sick.

Honestly, I was pretty bad with my last bunny, he didn't get very much in the way of fresh veggies, and he didn't eat a lot of hay until he was maybe 3 or so, he just didn't like it, and I got various kinds, and ended up throwing it out because he didn't eat it, he lived until 6, and passed due to an enlarged heart, but Louie gets a lot more greens and fruit.
Hopefully this is all just a bit of an infection, and will pass...fingers crossed!

 

[naturestee]

Don't worry, we know you're just trying to figure out what is best for your bun

It's hard to tell what the problem could actually be if the only thing that showed up in the urine is casts. I don't know if vets have the ability to tell the difference between the types of casts (based on what they are made of) so they essentially say that something could be wrong but maybe not. If that was the only problem that your vet could find so far and your bun is still showing signs of illness, I'd personally go for a full blood panel. That way you'll see if there is an active infection, although that round of antibiotics will probably have knocked that down at least a bit. I don't know if this was mentioned before, but keep in mind that rabbit urine may turn reddish because of the food he is eating or as it sits out. I don't know why it sometimes turns red from sitting out for a little while, but it does.

If you are worried about his water intake, it's more useful to increase veggies and add canned or pureed pumpkin if your bun will eat it. I always have that stuff around. If you don't have a use for a full can you can freeze part of it. Some people freeze it in ice cube trays and then put the cubes in bags for easily-retrieved portions.

 

[DarkRosa]

So I had Louis (Lou) back at the vets today for a follow up urine test, things are looking better, not as many casts this time, and some struvite crystals. He has been off antibiotics since Friday (Friday AM was his last dose), and he perked up since being off (I don't think they agreed very well with him, and the vet was ok with him being off of them). So, with him back to himself, in terms of activity, drinking, eating, etc, what the plan is now, to focus on the crystals, is increasing his veggies for the extra fluids, to flush his kidneys and bladder, and decrease his pellets (for now).
Like I said in the last post, I was thinking of putting him on this type of diet anyways, so we will see how it goes! I'm sure he will not have a problem with it, but I will just have to see how his poops are! (hmmm....how much veggies to give a 3.5lb bunny....and a bit of a diet at the same time, he is a bit chunky!)

 

[Imbrium]

whitelop has a good bit of experience with a pellet free diet... I believe she was feeding about 6c of veggies a day to her 5 lb mini-lop, so I'd say probably 4c packed leafy greens would be a good starting point, or maybe 3c and increase to 4 as you decrease pellets. many vets believe a no-pellet diet is actually better for rabbits in the long run, so if that helps with his kidney problems, it's a viable way to go permanently.

you'll want a wide variety of veggies... herbs can be pretty pricey but are great for increasing variety, so you might consider growing your own once spring hits. dunno about prices where you're at, but I was able to buy entire herb plants for little more than the cost of one little packet of them at the grocery store (and starting with plants is much faster/easier than starting with seeds if you're not big on gardening).

 

[tonyshuman]

This is a helpful source of info:
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f22/urinary-tract-problems-10497/

 

[HEM]

We are hoping for him to recover quickly
You are in our thoughts

 

[DarkRosa]

So we were back into the vets this week, and his urine check was all good, so whatever was his issue is thankfully cleared up! Thank you everyone for your info, thoughts and everything!