Keep Naomi in Your Prayers

[naturestee]

Eep, just seeing this now! I'm really glad Naomi is doing well, and she and Chase are a beautiful couple.

On her down eye- was it internal clouding, scratches on the surface, potential causes? Is she able to blink, and can she (or Chase) keep the eye clean? I know they can have more trouble with their down eyes, and I'm wondering if it might help to flush her eye with sterile saline daily. Or some sort or eye lubricant/tear replacement? I'd check with the vet first before messing with the eye though.

Do your ground pellets clog syringes less than Critical Care? I've hadthe hardest time with that. I do have a coffee grinder, but I've just been using Critical Care because it's more convenient and has some added nutrition and probiotics.

 

[krsbunny]

Rainbow Exact softens really nicely ... probably because it is extruded rather than pelleted. I think regular pellets clog worse than critical care... even when using a wide-tipped syringe.

Kathy

 

[MyBabyBunnies]

The little fluff ball is Chase.

Naturestee, I actually ground up the Critical Care more with the coffee grinder, so yes it gets it finer. You just have to keep stirring the contents while feed or it does settle in lumps and will clog but if you mix it before sucking it up, it works great! I mix it part pellets and part Critical Care when she's not eating so that she gets some of her regular diet plus the added nutrition of the CC.

The clouding was internal, she had that before she had any head tilt and the outside is not damaged at all. Her head is not tilted that much, so I'm hoping I wont have too many problems with that eye. And yes, Chase does clean it and I check it daily as well. I have saline eye drops just in case she needs it but so far there has been no need for it.

 

[naturestee]

EC can cause cataracts. It might be a contributing factor with the head tilt, something to look into if antibiotics don't seem to be doing much.

 

[krsbunny]

I agree that you might want to consider treating for e.c. as well. What Dr. Allan does is take a blood sample, then start treatment pending titer results. I have actually had a few of my bunnies come back negative ... more than once, an with those we discontinue the e.c. treatment. One of these bunnies, ironically, later developed very severe symptoms that we failed to consider might be e.c. because he had been negative in repeated tests. What we failed to factor in was that his mate had been positive and symptomatic at one point, and we assume that is how Fred became infected.

I'm very interested in hearing what everyone here has (and has not) had success with. I have talked to a handful of other people over the years who have tried ponazuril, which I understand Randy is looking at now. Would be very interested in hearing his experiences.

Also ... has anyone tried the Ivermectin treatment recommended on Barbi Brown's site? I'm interested in whether you used the full dose she recommends and whether you saw any side effects. I understand from her site that the high dose is really important, yet the vets here are reluctant to risk going that high. I would love to be able to put them in touch with vet(s) who have tried this to discuss their perception of both safety and efficacy.

The vets here have seen many, many, many "full blown" symptomatic e.c. cases ... most with multiple symptoms... and are more than willing to consult with other vets. They would love to find an answer to this frustrating illness.

Kathy Smith

 

[MyBabyBunnies]

The problem is a positive EC test means they were exposed to it at one time, it doesn't mean it is the problem. A lot of rabbits will come up positive and not show any signs in their life.

I'm sticking with where we are going, she seems to be doing well and she is improving each day.

 

[tonyshuman]

It's true that a titer can mostly only tell you whether or not the bunny has been exposed, but it's possible that a very high titer might indicate an active infection. I'm not 100% on this, I think Randy has found that a high titer correlates with a more active infection (please correct me if I'm wrong, don't want to put words into anyone's mouth). It makes biological sense too.

 

[Maureen Las]

I think that if you run a titer and it is high and the rabbits is symptomatic then you assume EC..
if one is not sure you would need a baseline Ec titer to compare with future ones which most likely would be get higher as Ec progresses.

 

[krsbunny]

Dr. Allan and I assume that if a rabbit is having e.c.-like symptoms and the titer does not come back negative, that e.c. may be at least part of what is going on, so we treat for that as well as infection, inflammation, or whatever else we can confirm or strongly suspect. I view it as "covering all bases," and it sounds like what some others here do as well. If that doesn't "feel right" to you, then, of course, don't do it <gr>

There are no right/wrong answers to this ...but I think that it is good to hear a variety of experiences and viewpoints, providing more information from which to make an informed decision that feels right to you for your rabbit.

Kathy Smith

 

[Maureen Las]

krsbunny wrote:

I agree that you might want to consider treating for e.c. as well. What Dr. Allan does is take a blood sample, then start treatment pending titer results. I have actually had a few of my bunnies come back negative ... more than once, an with those we discontinue the e.c. treatment. One of these bunnies, ironically, later developed very severe symptoms that we failed to consider might be e.c. because he had been negative in repeated tests. What we failed to factor in was that his mate had been positive and symptomatic at one point, and we assume that is how Fred became infected.

I'm very interested in hearing what everyone here has (and has not) had success with. I have talked to a handful of other people over the years who have tried ponazuril, which I understand Randy is looking at now. Would be very interested in hearing his experiences.

Also ... has anyone tried the Ivermectin treatment recommended on Barbi Brown's site? I'm interested in whether you used the full dose she recommends and whether you saw any side effects. I understand from her site that the high dose is really important, yet the vets here are reluctant to risk going that high. I would love to be able to put them in touch with vet(s) who have tried this to discuss their perception of both safety and efficacy.

The vets here have seen many, many, many "full blown" symptomatic e.c. cases ... most with multiple symptoms... and are more than willing to consult with other vets. They would love to find an answer to this frustrating illness.

Kathy Smith

I accidentally ran across the Barbi Brown treatment a long time ago by accident and actually saved it to "my favorites". I have never heard of anyone using it as prescribed by a vet but it's possible that it has been used by breeders and it may even be worth it to ask that question in the rabbitry section.

Breeders use many various treatments for their rabbits thatwould not be used in a vet office but would probably be worth taking a look at.
I have heard of all kind of ointments etc (for sorehocks etc) and wounds that breeders swear by yet are not anything a vet would prescribe.

I think that if one actually separated the "wheat from the chaff" with some of these treatments that breeders can offer all of us options that we might pass over because they have not been scientifically documented.

they work but people may not actually be sure why

As far as I have learned there is no really effective treatment for EC ..just the sometimes temporary positive effect of fenbendazole

Randy and his vetsare working on different treatments (Ponazuril)but as yet I don't think have found a sure one.

 

[MyBabyBunnies]

I talked to one of the vets at the clinic today and convinced them to start her on EC treatment as well. After looking into Panacur and more into EC I decided the risks of not treating her were too great. They gave me the medication and I started her on Panacur today. They actually wanted to give me another medication, Albendazole, but I asked about Fenbendazole (Panacur) and they were willing to let me try it.

 

[Pet_Bunny]

How is Naomi today?

Did the vet have the medication on hand? Do you have enough Critical Care?

 

[Bo B Bunny]

Oh man, how is she doing? I've been really waiting to hear more news!

 

[naturestee]

How is Naomi doing?

Kathy,I think a few people here may have used Barbi Brown'sEC treatment. Maybe Tinysmom, I know she's dealt with head tilt and has to go a really long way to get to a halfway decent vet.

 

[MyBabyBunnies]

She seemed to plateau as far as recovery. She improved a little each day up until about Sunday, since then it's been more of the same, maybe not quite as good and that was a little concerning. Right now I'm all for agressively treating what she may have. I'm really hoping one of these treatments will work. She is still kicking and she is still curious, I haven't seen her lose her balance since Saturday. She is still eating, just not nearly as much as normal. Her and Chase seem to be attached at the hip.

Let me just say I am glad Naomi is such a good bunny, she is so great about her meds. I do have to play with the syringe to get her to keep chewing so she actually swallows it and it doesn't just drop out of her mouth.

 

[tonyshuman]

I'm glad you're treating for EC as a precaution. I'm glad she's being a good bunny for you and Chase is being her rock. I hope she starts to improve again.

 

[JadeIcing]

Hows she doing? Ringo sends lots of kisses.

 

[MyBabyBunnies]

Not any change. I guess it's good she seems to have levelled out though instead of getting worse but I wish I could see some improvement. She goes back to the vet Thursday, I'll be armed with her medical journal marking every day in the last nearly 2 weeks and pictures of her head tilt from a few different days so the vet can compare. This is the same vet that saw her initially so I can get a better idea wheather the antibiotics are working or not.

She's a little fighter.

 

[Pet_Bunny]

You're such a good bunny mommy. Who was the doctor that saw Naomi last time? (Dr. Black).

When Pebbles had problems, she improved very quickly at the start of her medication, reached aplateau and then took a long time to completely recover.

 

[MyBabyBunnies]

Dr. Wilkenson saw her when I took her back for the recheck. I tried to get Naomi in on Friday but Dr. Steele wasn't in and I would have ended up taking her to Dr. Simmonds. I didn't want to take her to a 3rd vet in 2 weeks, I figured we could hold out an extra week and get to see Dr. Steele again. I really want her opinion on if the swelling in the ears has gone down which would be hard for a vet that has never seen her before.

I'm not a very patient person when it comes to my animals health, so I'm finding this waiting game quite stressful.