KAYTEE brand kibble bad for bunnies?
- Thread starter Mr. Bunbun
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ratmom
Well-Known Member
undergunfire wrote:
Luring people like me in? Don't insult me please. Next your going to tell me I'm not feeding my rats right :rollseyesratmom wrote:I definitely have to disagree with this. Kaytee definitely isn't changing their ways...they still have terrible products with fancy names on the market luring people, like you, in.
tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
The Forti-Diet Pro Health is not a great food. It has too much fat (2.5%, when a better feed has 1.5%, maybe 2% max is ok), and the protein and fiber are a bit low. A good feed has 14% protein and more than 25% fiber. Also, for an adult rabbit it's best for the pellet to be mainly Timothy hay based, and that pellet seems to be a mix of timothy and alfalfa. Adult bunnies don't need alfalfa hay and it's too fatty for them.
It is true that a lot of pet food companies say that their products are healthy when they aren't at all. That is because most pet owners don't know what should and shouldn't be in a pet's food.
An example is Kaytee Fiesta Max. They say it is nutritious and gourmet, but it contains seeds, which a rabbit's digestive tract is not able to break down. They can cause real damage to rabbits. It also has 4% fat, and 12-17% fiber. This food is really bad, but they market it as nutritious.
http://kaytee.com/products/fiesta-max-rabbit.php
I'm sure Amy wasn't trying to say you aren't smart, but she is saying that many companies like Kaytee market products as healthy when they're really quite bad for the animal. Most people don't know what is a good rabbit food, and/or don't have the time to research it. We trust that when a company that's well established and found in every pet store tells us something is good for our pets, that it is. This unfortunately isn't the truth.
I first bought the Forti-Diet Crunch food for Tony when I got him. http://kaytee.com/products/fortidiet-crunch-rabbit-5-lb.php It's terrible, with 15.5% protein, 3% fat, and 12-16% fiber. Eventually I read enough to know that this was a bad food and I switched.
Kaytee makes an ok food for rabbits, called Timothy Complete. It has 1.5% fat, 14% protein, and 18-23% fiber. I wouldn't recommend any of their other products for rabbits, though. http://kaytee.com/products/timothy-complete-rabbit.php
It is true that a lot of pet food companies say that their products are healthy when they aren't at all. That is because most pet owners don't know what should and shouldn't be in a pet's food.
An example is Kaytee Fiesta Max. They say it is nutritious and gourmet, but it contains seeds, which a rabbit's digestive tract is not able to break down. They can cause real damage to rabbits. It also has 4% fat, and 12-17% fiber. This food is really bad, but they market it as nutritious.
http://kaytee.com/products/fiesta-max-rabbit.php
I'm sure Amy wasn't trying to say you aren't smart, but she is saying that many companies like Kaytee market products as healthy when they're really quite bad for the animal. Most people don't know what is a good rabbit food, and/or don't have the time to research it. We trust that when a company that's well established and found in every pet store tells us something is good for our pets, that it is. This unfortunately isn't the truth.
I first bought the Forti-Diet Crunch food for Tony when I got him. http://kaytee.com/products/fortidiet-crunch-rabbit-5-lb.php It's terrible, with 15.5% protein, 3% fat, and 12-16% fiber. Eventually I read enough to know that this was a bad food and I switched.
Kaytee makes an ok food for rabbits, called Timothy Complete. It has 1.5% fat, 14% protein, and 18-23% fiber. I wouldn't recommend any of their other products for rabbits, though. http://kaytee.com/products/timothy-complete-rabbit.php
OakRidgeRabbits
Well-Known Member
I have to disagree with most all of the posts in this topic, up to this point.
I don't care what brand you're going for, but the MOST important thing to consider is that the food is fresh and works well for YOUR rabbit. In the breeding/show world, we have discussions upon discussions about whch food is "best", and the simple truth is that it depends largely on the individual rabbit, herd, and area you're talking about.
For those of you who have feed mills in your area, generally the best food for your rabbit will be what is locally milled. It often comes a lot fresher since it is made in your area. On that note, this is why breeders (or pet owners) in one area might cringe at the thought of feeding Purina, while people in another area might absolutely love it. Location very much determines the quality of the feed you are working with.
That being said, a general rule for finding a good pellet in my opinion is:
- About 2-3% fat.
- Around 16% protein.
I also want to point out that although I do have show/breeding rabbits to keep in condition, I also keep several pets who thrive on this diet.
I don't worry much about the fiber content in pellets at all, because I feed timothy hay daily. A high fiber content in food is good, but a food high in fiber often lacks in other areas. So I'd rather let fiber contents slide, and feed straight fiber supplements (hay) instead.
As I said, this is only what I feel is best. So as we can all see, opinions vary. Routines vary. And what is "best" varies. I'm floored to see that people will directly tear down someone's opinions on this forum. If their rabbit is healthy, happy, and in good fur and flesh condition, I'm sorry- but there's no reason they need to change what they're doing.
Whether a person is feeding Kaytee, Purina, Blue Seal, Oxbow, or horse grain (lol), if it works for them and their bunnies, that's excellent! We can all give our opinions and make suggestions, but direct attacks are totally uncalled for.
I don't care what brand you're going for, but the MOST important thing to consider is that the food is fresh and works well for YOUR rabbit. In the breeding/show world, we have discussions upon discussions about whch food is "best", and the simple truth is that it depends largely on the individual rabbit, herd, and area you're talking about.
For those of you who have feed mills in your area, generally the best food for your rabbit will be what is locally milled. It often comes a lot fresher since it is made in your area. On that note, this is why breeders (or pet owners) in one area might cringe at the thought of feeding Purina, while people in another area might absolutely love it. Location very much determines the quality of the feed you are working with.
That being said, a general rule for finding a good pellet in my opinion is:
- About 2-3% fat.
- Around 16% protein.
I also want to point out that although I do have show/breeding rabbits to keep in condition, I also keep several pets who thrive on this diet.
I don't worry much about the fiber content in pellets at all, because I feed timothy hay daily. A high fiber content in food is good, but a food high in fiber often lacks in other areas. So I'd rather let fiber contents slide, and feed straight fiber supplements (hay) instead.
As I said, this is only what I feel is best. So as we can all see, opinions vary. Routines vary. And what is "best" varies. I'm floored to see that people will directly tear down someone's opinions on this forum. If their rabbit is healthy, happy, and in good fur and flesh condition, I'm sorry- but there's no reason they need to change what they're doing.
Whether a person is feeding Kaytee, Purina, Blue Seal, Oxbow, or horse grain (lol), if it works for them and their bunnies, that's excellent! We can all give our opinions and make suggestions, but direct attacks are totally uncalled for.
OakRidgeRabbits
Well-Known Member
tonyshuman wrote:
So no, it's not terrible or a bad food...that's basically what my herd is on, except that it's straight pellets...no little "treat" fillers.
I'd prefer around 2.5% fat rather than 3% for pets, but otherwise, this sounds like the best Kaytee food IMO.
So no, it's not terrible or a bad food...that's basically what my herd is on, except that it's straight pellets...no little "treat" fillers.
tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
The personal attacks have come from all sides of this argument, and I agree that they don't belong here. It is important to have an open mind and do research on your own to determine what is the best pellet.
Amy (undergunfire) was arguing that she does not buy Kaytee primarily because of their business practices, in particular marketing lower-quality food as healthy food. This is a personal protest on her part, similar to the reason I don't buy from certain pet stores in town because I don't like the conditions they keep their animals for sale in, etc.
Every person needs to research pellets themselves and know what fat, protein, fiber, calcium content is good for their rabbits. These things vary depending on the age of the rabbit, the environment it is kept in (climate-controlled or not), whether or not it is breeding, the rabbit's genetics, and other health conditions that the rabbit may have. Most indoor pet rabbits will do best on a pellet with greater than 23% fiber, around 14% protein, and less than 2% fat. Outdoor rabbits or breeding rabbits may require more protein and fat.
Not every food made by Kaytee is terrible, but they sell so many bad feeds and call them healthy that some may choose to boycott the company entirely, which is their choice.
Amy (undergunfire) was arguing that she does not buy Kaytee primarily because of their business practices, in particular marketing lower-quality food as healthy food. This is a personal protest on her part, similar to the reason I don't buy from certain pet stores in town because I don't like the conditions they keep their animals for sale in, etc.
Every person needs to research pellets themselves and know what fat, protein, fiber, calcium content is good for their rabbits. These things vary depending on the age of the rabbit, the environment it is kept in (climate-controlled or not), whether or not it is breeding, the rabbit's genetics, and other health conditions that the rabbit may have. Most indoor pet rabbits will do best on a pellet with greater than 23% fiber, around 14% protein, and less than 2% fat. Outdoor rabbits or breeding rabbits may require more protein and fat.
Not every food made by Kaytee is terrible, but they sell so many bad feeds and call them healthy that some may choose to boycott the company entirely, which is their choice.
tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
OakRidgeRabbits wrote:
http://rabbit.org/journal/3-4/pellets.html
It may be a good food for rabbits that live outside, but it has too much fat and protein, and not enough fiber for a house rabbit with a relaxed life inside. The stress of regulating one's own temperature (ie for a rabbit that lives outside) makes outdoor rabbits have higher protein requirements. Also, it's alfalfa-based, which is not optimal for an adult house rabbit as well. A food like this may be fine for your rabbits, but it's not right for adult house rabbits that snooze all day in an air-conditioned house.tonyshuman wrote:I'd prefer around 2.5% fat rather than 3% for pets, but otherwise, this sounds like the best Kaytee food IMO.
http://rabbit.org/journal/3-4/pellets.html
OakRidgeRabbits
Well-Known Member
tonyshuman wrote:
Alfalfa is important in the diet of a young rabbit to help them grow and mature. Therefore, many people feed ther young rabbits both alfalfa-based pellets and alfalfa hay. However, at maturity (around 6-8 months, depending on the breed), it is best to switch the alfalfa hay to a lighter grass hay. So yes, there is a thing as too much alfalfa in a mature, adult rabbit. However, it is still an important part of their diet, it just has to be balanced properly by using a grass hay at that age.
As a rabbit ages, usually past 6-8 years of age, some rabbits have trouble keeping weight on. It is often suggested to reintroduce alfalfa hay into their diets at this point in time.
Alfalfa is perfectly fine for a rabbit of any age, as I previously mentioned. I have found that rabbits easily lose health and condition when alfalfa is totally stripped from their diet, and that is speaking from a pet perspective, as I have both pet and breeding rabbits.
Alfalfa is important in the diet of a young rabbit to help them grow and mature. Therefore, many people feed ther young rabbits both alfalfa-based pellets and alfalfa hay. However, at maturity (around 6-8 months, depending on the breed), it is best to switch the alfalfa hay to a lighter grass hay. So yes, there is a thing as too much alfalfa in a mature, adult rabbit. However, it is still an important part of their diet, it just has to be balanced properly by using a grass hay at that age.
As a rabbit ages, usually past 6-8 years of age, some rabbits have trouble keeping weight on. It is often suggested to reintroduce alfalfa hay into their diets at this point in time.
Jess4921
Well-Known Member
I buy the Timithy pellets from Kaytee for my piggers, and the nutritional info is pretty close to Oxbow, and IMO its a pretty good pellet. Its half the price of Oxbow pellets, and I would rather put the money into more fresh veggies personally. I buy Smudge Oxbow pellets, but my sister (our guinea pigs are housed together) wont help me pay for Oxbow food for the guinea pigs, so Im kinda stuck, because I cant afford to buy more... especially when her pet will be eating half the food I buy. :\ It kinda sucks when your only 15, and you dont have a job LOL.
Anyway, I dont see a problem with supporting good products, even if theyre from a not-so-good company. If the company sees that alot more people are buying the plain, timithy-based pellets, and not the fancy "gourmay" crap with seeds and stuff, they will probably make more plain pellets and lessen the number of "gourmay" products. So it could potentially have a good impact! But thats just my opinion on it.
Anyway, I dont see a problem with supporting good products, even if theyre from a not-so-good company. If the company sees that alot more people are buying the plain, timithy-based pellets, and not the fancy "gourmay" crap with seeds and stuff, they will probably make more plain pellets and lessen the number of "gourmay" products. So it could potentially have a good impact! But thats just my opinion on it.
Happi Bun
Well-Known Member
tonyshuman wrote:
I read it then turned around to see my boys snoozing away with the AC blasting.
We are experiencing a wave of just horribly dry/hot weather right now.
OakRidge,
I don't know about breeding rabbit's, but everyone I've ever encountered that's involved with owning rabbit's (which includes rescues) recommends feeding an adult house rabbit a Timothy diet and not Alfalfa. They don't mention anything about their rabbit's losing condition or health so I'm not sure why yours would be.
:?
I personally feed an all timothy diet (this includes timothy hay available 24/7). My two boys are 11 and 9 months old. They are in great condition, well besides the fact Dunkin is getting to be a bit of a chunk bunny, but that's because I've been feeding him a bit more than recommended. So I will cutting back.
The part in bold made me LOL!A food like this may be fine for your rabbits, but it's not right for adult house rabbits that snooze all day in an air-conditioned house.
I read it then turned around to see my boys snoozing away with the AC blasting.
We are experiencing a wave of just horribly dry/hot weather right now.
OakRidge,
I don't know about breeding rabbit's, but everyone I've ever encountered that's involved with owning rabbit's (which includes rescues) recommends feeding an adult house rabbit a Timothy diet and not Alfalfa. They don't mention anything about their rabbit's losing condition or health so I'm not sure why yours would be.
:?
I personally feed an all timothy diet (this includes timothy hay available 24/7). My two boys are 11 and 9 months old. They are in great condition, well besides the fact Dunkin is getting to be a bit of a chunk bunny, but that's because I've been feeding him a bit more than recommended. So I will cutting back.
CKGS
Well-Known Member
Wow... This poor person came here to ask a question and got an eyeful. I feel bad Mr.Bunbun.
I feel that MOST of kaytees feeds are probably not the greatest but there are worse ones I believe Hartz prob being one... That being said some of the new pelleted ones don't seem terribly bad to me.
I feed MannaPro. It works well, so far, for my buns and I am happy with it. Also happier because it is actually cheaper for me than most of the little pet food bags sold at most stores. I buy it at the feed store and have found it to be much cheaper.
I think you can probably get away with feeding what others consider a 'lesser' feed as long as your bun looks good and is getting hay also. I don't know about the hay thing. I just feed mine timothy hay and they seem to love it.
I hope you came away from this with some idea of what to look for at least.
I feel that MOST of kaytees feeds are probably not the greatest but there are worse ones I believe Hartz prob being one... That being said some of the new pelleted ones don't seem terribly bad to me.
I feed MannaPro. It works well, so far, for my buns and I am happy with it. Also happier because it is actually cheaper for me than most of the little pet food bags sold at most stores. I buy it at the feed store and have found it to be much cheaper.
I think you can probably get away with feeding what others consider a 'lesser' feed as long as your bun looks good and is getting hay also. I don't know about the hay thing. I just feed mine timothy hay and they seem to love it.
I hope you came away from this with some idea of what to look for at least.
ratmom
Well-Known Member
You guys make everything so confusing lol. I'm going to stick with what I'm doing now and see how it goes. I'm mixing it with the small world food right now since I just started adding it to their food.
