Issues with a 5 year old mini-rex (maggots, then not eating, signs of pain)

[dshadoe]

Hi,

I have a female mini-rex, unspayed, around 5 - 6 years old. She's an indoor rabbit that lives in my bedroom, and isn't confined to her cage (though she has one with her litter in it). She's been having some issues, I'm hoping to get a feel for what the problem may be,

About a week ago, I noticed she was sitting with her bum off the ground in the morning. I picked her up and was startled to find about 5 little (what I thought were) maggots around her anus. She had flystrike a couple of years ago and we dealt with that, but I thought she had it again now. We removed the "maggots", which were each maybe a little under a cm in length. They were off-white and round-ish, and if I'm remembering correctly, had somewhat of a flat end on one side. Unfortunately we flushed them rather than keep them. I couldn't see any visible wound. Her behavior up to this point seemed normal.

We took her immediately to the vet, and they cleaned, shaved and examined her, and could not find a wound either. They said flystrike was unlikely, but mentioned the possibility of tapeworm or some other kind of parasite. She is an indoor rabbit as I said, but has been outside on the lawn within the top portion of her cage, but only a few times this year and always under strict supervision. I was given instructions to collect a stool sample and apply a cream around her vulva, as well as give her antibiotics for two weeks.

I have two concerns:

1) The worms/maggots: I did some research but could not possibly find any obvious explanation. As mentioned, her behavior and diet HAS been normal up until then. Tapeworm segments seems possible but unlikely. Only other culprits I saw were pinworms/roundworms, but they don't seem right either. I can't even say for sure where they came from.

And more importantly to me now,
2) Her behavior since that visit to the vet. Her appetite isn't gone altogether, and she still defecates/urinates, but things have slowed down it seems. She sometimes refuses the treats we occasionally give her, such as cheerios and grapes, when before she went nuts for them. She also seems generally.. less happy. She's been spending more time under the bed and other places out of sight.

I don't know if it's a bug she has, or if it's the antibiotics.. she was given Trimethoprim Sulfa. I've had to give her medication orally before, but she absolutely hates this stuff and really fights it. I've slowed down on using it (prescribed 1ml(?) twice daily) because it just doesn't feel right.. giving her 1 dose daily currently.


Any thoughts..? Let me know if you guys have any other questions, I really appreciate any advice or comments, and thanks!


EDIT -
I also wanted to mention, her diet mainly consists of timothy hay pellets and timothy/"meadow" grasses. I'll admit we probably give her too many pellets, and give her a small amount of treat pellet mix each night. Going to cut that out, as well as things like cheerios.



Dustin

 

[Nancy McClelland]

keep an eye out and follow vets advice.

 

[dshadoe]

Thanks for the reply; I am tempted to give my rabbit her antibiotics soon, but I feel unsure as to whether it's a good move or not when she's not feeling so great.

A little update too.. currently, she is occasionally grinding her teeth, or I'm assuming that's what she's doing as I haven't heard her do this before. It's kind of like a crunching noise. There isn't anything visibly wrong with her, so I may call up the vet tomorrow morning.

She's been fairly low-key today, hiding out and not eating much.

 

[aurora369]

If worms are suspected, I would use a deworming product asap. Many times you will not see any signs of worms in a fecal exam. Revolution is very safe and easy to give, use the kitten vials. Your vet should be able to provide you with some.

I'm not sure why the antibiotics where prescribed. They could be why she is not eating so much. Antibiotics will kill pretty much all bacteria, including the good bacteria in a rabbit gut. Which can lead to gut slow down. Unless there is an infection, I don't like to give antibiotics.

However, I would follow the vet's antibiotic prescription. Under dosing will just cause bacteria to become resistant. Rabbits often require much higher doses of antibiotics than cats or dogs do.

You can supplement with some probiotics (Bene-bac from a pet store or acidophilus from a human pharmacy or health food store). If it is in a powder form, mix with a tiny bit of juice in a syringe. This will help acidify the gut which promotes the growth of good bacteria.

-Dawn

 

[Maureen Las]

Pet rabbits can pick up worm eggs just from being out in the grass for a short period.; I adopted a shelter rabbit that had a tapeworm.; the onlysymptom was that he got diarrhea from eating greens; his neuter surgery apparently injured the tapeworm ( anesthesia ?) and he passed a segment of it the dayfollowing his surgery. he was treated with Droncit ..I believe that it was 2 doses a week apart

and he passed the rest of the worm/
he had been given a fecal exam prior to this diagnosis and the fecal exam showed nothing.

Another member of this forumtook her disabled girl outside in the grass to get sun and air and this bun also developed a tapeworm and was treated.
it is not that difficuly for a bun to get worms. The eggs are ofeten on blades of grass which the bun ingests.
I am not sure why your bun is getting an antibiotic andI would question the ability of your vet . I will include our list of vets for your are at the end of my post


I believe that you should see a vet , however, I have no idea why your bun is on antibiotics??
Try to get a probiotic and give her a dose of it ( benebac) ,I would also pick up some electrolyte drink for children and syringe her some intermittentlyto hydrate her.

I would guess that the TPS is upsetting her gut.

let us know how she does...

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=12548&forum_id=9

I would first of all attempt to find another vet with a better knowledge of rabbits

 

[dshadoe]

Thanks for the replies,

The vet I went to should be experienced with rabbits, though I can't say for sure that particular doctor was - it's the Brittania Animal Hospital in Mississauga. They are an exotics clinic, seem heavily geared toward birds though.

At this point, she is still the same, though I haven't heard any teeth grinding this morning yet. She is laying about mostly.. still enjoys having her head rubbed, and does perk up a bit when you come near her. Most concerning though is the lack of pellets overnight, there are a few scattered around but it seems as though she's barely going to the bathroom. I saw her pee twice yesterday, but not in her litter box.

I think I am going to book her in for another appointment with my usual vet, the Southdown Animal Clinic. I'll also see about getting that probiotic.

Both of these vets are very expensive though I find.. I can't mention anything recent of Southdown, but this last visit to Britannia cost just shy of $300, for a checkup, shave around the vulva, meds/cream and a fecal test. More alarming was their quote for a spay; with bloodwork, they said between $700-$800.. though it was mentioned very informally, and she is 5 or 6 years old.

Thanks again!

 

[Maureen Las]

If she is used to eating greensgive her some of her favorite greens especially wet.

You need to syringe her fluids until you go to the vet; the electrolyte drink for children thatI mentioned last night. Give her as much as she will take .

Also get some infant gas drops (simethicone as ONLY active ingredient) and give her 1 cc per hour ; (1 dose every hour X3 )
probiotics can be bought at petstores or even at human health food stores

if she is not eating you can also give her some syringe feedings prior to the vet visit (fluids way more important though ); pure canned pumpkin , possibly critical care if you have it.

The vet can diagnose , however ,if her GI tract shuts down then she will be in big trouble. You can keep that from happening by keeping her hydrated and keeping her GI tract moving by putting something in it. .
She most likely will go downhill if left alone.

 

[dshadoe]

She's been under the bed most of the day, I have an appointment booked in an hour. She sniffs around when I reach under there for her. She has eaten a few sprigs of parsley and a small piece of cauliflower, which is all I have given to her. Looked like she took a small drink when I offered her the water bowl, but I'll give her some more in a syringe before going to the vet.

I don't think I'll have time to make it to the pet store, so I'll see about buying some probiotics when at the vet. Thanks again-

 

[dshadoe]

Hi again - update now since the vet visit, I'm wondering what you guys think of the doctors findings though as outlined below,

My rabbit, Topher, urinated before we left, so I can say with some surety she is still functioning okay in that regard, as far as I can tell at least. She seemed normal enough during her visit, wiggling her nose, standing up, doing other rabbit things.

Unfortunately though, things are still inconclusive. It almost seems as if those worms were maybe just a coincidence, but I wouldn't rule them out as being related to her current behavior just yet. The vet did notice a couple things:

1 - She apparently does have somewhat sharp teeth, nothing too bad, but the vet thinks she noticed a spot on the inside of her cheek that looks sore. Obviously this could be a factor in her behavior.

2 - More concerning, the vet believes she can feel something harder/denser than normal inside the abdomen/lower region of her body. Personally, I couldn't feel anything, but I'm not a vet. She said this could mean a couple things, one being that she has some sort of blockage, but it could also be something more serious such as a tumor. It could also be because she's dehydrated, though that may relate more to the blockage idea. She couldn't say anything with surety though without doing an x-ray, but we're holding off on that for now.

She was given two shots, one a hydration shot under the skin, the other a probiotic, into her stomach I think? She had also suggested two antibiotic shots, but in order to rule those out as factors in her behavior, we are holding off on those for now. I was also given a food to force feed her with a syringe.

We are going to see how things go until tomorrow, but in the meantime, I'd love to hear any thoughts you all may have, especially on the harder area the vet said she could feel in her stomach.

Thanks so much,

Dustin

 

[Maureen Las]

If she has dental issues and it indeed sounds like she does then this could be the primary problem
Is this vet able to do dental work ?

If not you need to find a vet who is comfortable doing dentistry on rabbits. Dental issuesoften cause the rabbit to cease eating because the chewing motion is painful.

GI stasisoften becomesa secondary and often serious issue until the teeth are taken care of.
If she has molar spurs or overgrown molars it is possible to anesthesize the bun and carefully grind and /or file the teeth down to reestablish a normal bite and chewing pattern.
You need a vet who has experience doing this.

In the meantime I would make a gruel out of her pellets to see if she will eat that ; if not you may need to syringe the slurry to her in addition to givng her fluids by mouth. It is also easy to syringe pure canned pumpkin (without seasoning) to her.

 

[dshadoe]

Thanks for the reply,

The vet did not get into detail about the process and cost of dental work, so I am not sure if she can do it or not.. regarding that, she said that if it were to come to that, she would want to do x-rays first to find out what it was she felt in my rabbit's abdomen, as if it were something serious it could cause issues putter her under anesthesia without addressing that first.. if that sounds right?

As far as food goes, the stuff I got from the vet is Oxbow's Critical Care, a powdered product that you mix into a slurry and feed with a big syringe.

I'm becoming concerned about cost though.. x-rays alone are $200, and that only determines what the problem is (hopefully) in her stomach. I don't know what dental work would cost but I can't see that being cheap.. cost is a problem for me to figure out though.

Thanks again-

 

[Maureen Las]

Unfortunately cost can be an issue with dental issuesbut if your rabbit needs molar filing periodically it may not be too bad as she seems to have developed the problem later in life rather than earlier.. which is good.
Critical care is acomplete herbivore food; make sure that you use more water than written in the directions; it can absorb a lot of water and best to give it in a more dilute form than thick

if you have problems with it clogging a syringe you can blend it in a blender first which makes it easier to syringe.

 

[tonyshuman]

At her age, she is not too old to have a spay, and an ultrasound may help you determine what's going on in her abdomen. My honest opinion is that your vet is a false rabbit savvy vet. A good rabbit vet will recognize that rabbits are not any more difficult to treat than other animals, just less common, and thus won't charge a ton more like it sounds like your vet is (assuming the Canadian and US dollar are similar in price).

Worms are a big deal and the tooth grinding sounds like pain. I don't know what's going on, but it needs to be determined if the worms were tapeworm segments or maggots, and the right treatment needs to be decided. The abdomen mass sounds like it could be a blockage, maybe related to tapeworms, although it's rare for tapeworms to cause GI slowdown, as far as I know. It could also be unrelated to the worms, like a uterine mass.

 

[dshadoe]

Hi, thanks for the reply,

I would love to find a vet not too far from me (the drives really seem to stress her out) that is good with rabbits and comes recommended as well. These two vets I've been to haven't been recommended but are listed as rabbit/exotic vets. The first one that initially treated her (went there because they could see her soonest) was the one that quoted $700-800 for a spay and bloodwork.. though a couple years ago, the other vet quoted around $500. I was surprised to see people getting quotes for around $150, but those places were over an hour drive from me.

I'm not positive how to continue except to see how things go with the force feeding of Critical Care and probiotics, plus water.. if she isn't eating normally at least. I'm mostly concerned about the lack of poo. Hopefully if there is a blockage, and it seems that way, it will free up soon..

Aside from that, I'm open to further diagnosis and treatment, but between the two vets now I've spent $500 and can't keep throwing money at this without getting results. It would be great if I could find a local rabbit savvy vet with both good reviews and fair prices, but I've been through sites and forum threads listing clinics in my area and haven't seen anything that works (yet).

EDIT -
Also should mention, while feeding her the Critical Care slurry with the syringe tonight, she was grinding her teeth a fair bit. I could be wrong of course, but that makes me assume the pain is related to her tooth. I'm afraid to find out how much dental work would cost though.

 

[tonyshuman]

It's totally normal for pain from the teeth to cause a bunny to grind their teeth in pain and not want to eat to the point of getting a GI blockage. I still worry about the worms/worm segments, though. Is the tissue around there raw, red, irritated, at all?

Tooth grinding usually has to be done under anesthesia and sometimes requires repeat visits, sometimes even as often as every 2 months or so. However, sometimes, a single tooth grinding procedure will correct the problem.

Good vets are hard to find, unfortunately. I don't know if we have other members in Toronto that might have other recommendations. I know there is a "big city" factor, but even in places like Chicago and NYC I have heard quotes no more than $300 for a spay. Here, we can get it done at the Humane Society for $100, and at the hospital associated with the vet school here (super experts) for $250 or so.

 

[dshadoe]

I don't know if this means anything, but she is still peeing.. though she seems to be avoiding going on the newspaper in her litter. She's gone on the blanket next to it though, her towel, and the carpet. Still no signs of poo, though I can see some under the bed where she's been hanging out a lot, but that may be old. I'll have to clean that out and keep an eye on it.

As for the worms, please check this video on Youtube of a tapeworm segment:
[flash=425,344]http://www.youtube.com/v/3uk_aCZxmWY&hl=en&fs=1[/flash]

Are all tapeworm segments always like this? Because if so, she definitely didn't have tapeworms. They looked more like these:

..which are fruit-fly maggots, but they did look a fair bit like them. I just can't figure out where they would have came from, especially since there were only about 5, and they seemed bigger than if they had of hatched right on her.

The skin around her vulva has been irritated before at most from pulling at the fur when she's trying to clean down there, but there wasn't a wound. She was shaved a bit around there during her initial vet trip, and a topical cream was applied. She looks pretty much fine now there.

She's still hiding out under the bed. I'll have to get her out soon and try getting her to drink, may give some of the Bene-Bac probiotic as well.

As for vets, not really sure.. I told mine I'd call back today with a report on her, and possibly come back for a follow up, but now I'm feeling like I'd rather try and find someone else. I'll have to do some research into other vets in my area.

Thanks-

 

[dshadoe]

At this point, I'd like to know whether or not there is an actual blockage going on. It appears my rabbit is definitely not defecating, though her urination seems fairly normal. I am going to hold off on force feeding her the Critical Care slurry, but will occasionally give her water through a syringe to be sure she's drinking.

She has been eating occasionally, things like fresh carrot tops, parsley and cauliflower, and sometimes timothy/meadow hay.

She is still spending the majority of her time hidden away lying down. When she does move around, her movement seems normal still.

Tooth grinding persists, though infrequent as far as I can tell. Usually heard after eating or when trying to give her the syringe, though sometimes she doesn't grind her teeth at all.

...

I've found one vet that I'd like to see, but they aren't available until Friday when I'll be away. There is another vet in the area with a decent reputation but they're somewhat far and supposedly quite expensive.

I would like to confirm on the tooth problem, as well as where the blockage is in her gut and how bad it is. I don't want to force feed her until I have a better idea of what's happening in there. Is there anything I can really do myself other than take her to the vet for another exam and x-rays?

Sorry for the lengthiness of this all, this is a first for me and it's very frustrating, I just really want to know exactly what's wrong and how to deal with it..

 

[tonyshuman]

It sounds like her bum issue is probably over with.

It is good that she's eating still. I would push the water. Put out a new bowl and change it often. I'd also put out a bowl of pedialyte (also called dioralyte some places). The hydration should help move things along.

I would also recommend some probiotic. Here we can get Bene-Bac at a pet store or ProBios at a farm store. Other options are human acidophilus capsules. They can help get the gut going again too.

It's possible she had a diarrhea episode or something that led to the maggots, and the diarrhea was due to a gut microbe imbalance, that has now led to constipation.

 

[Nela]

If her cage was a bit dirty and the litter area was humid, it's quite possible that little flies lay eggs there. It's been very hot in Canada so I can imagine that would encourage maggots. I'm not sure if you said how big the maggots were? If she was sitting in the urine, it might explain why she was a bit irritated as well.

Could it be that the vet visit stressed her somewhat and now she has some GI issues like a slowdown? How much is she drinking? Was the vet saying she felt a distended abdomen or something? Maybe it'd be best to get her to eat more hay and less 'gassy' veggies like the cauliflower.

Will let another member confirm or correct this

 

[dshadoe]

Thanks for the replies guys,

I imagine the maggots could of come from a number of places at this point, there have been flies around which we kill when we see them in the house, but it wouldn't of been hard for one to sneak in and lay eggs somewhere. I was just under the impression there would have been more of them, as we only found about 5. I'm not too concerned about them at this point though,

I did pick up some Bene-Bac on the way back from her second vet visit. Managed to give her a little bit, though I'll have to sneak it in on her greens maybe as she really fights the force feedings. The Bene-Bac I have is gel form, in little tubes.

I bought a big jug of spring water to give her so we can avoid tap water for the time being, and her water bowl is always available. She has been out a little more, and I saw her take a good drink last night. I will continue giving her water in the syringe most likely for the next little while.

We've gotten her to eat hay by holding it in front of her, and I'll continue to try parsley and other greens. I'll leave cauliflower out for now and make sure I don't give her anything else that's gassy.

I've been massaging her stomach as well periodically.

She has produced some fecals, starting with a couple small single ones yesterday, and a couple small clumps seemingly strung together since then. They are definitely smaller and drier than normal though, something common with stasis as far as I've read. She still seems to be peeing okay.

Now that I've seem some output on that end, I may try forcing a small amount of the Critical Care again, though I'll remain attentive to her behavior and make my moves according to that. I'll keep this thread posted with all updates, and thanks again-