My vet gave Buster Amoxicillian yesterday as we have tried Baytril and Zithromax and the pasturella is back. I thought i read it is bad for rabbits. Should i not give it to him? Why would she suggest it? She also gave us Vetrachloracin ointment for his eye that never clears up.
Is Amoxicillian safe?
- Thread starter momof3b1g
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Leaf
Well-Known Member
[align=center]NO[/align]
Marietta
Well-Known Member
NO, for Heaven's sake!!! It's toxic for rabbits. DO NOT let anyone give Amoxyllin to your bun. Change your vet.
Marietta
Marietta
Okay, I'm going to go slightly against the grain here on what people generally say. Please take this with caution and don't look further into it than what I'm saying.
Amoxy is NOT GOOD for rabbits. I'm not going to deny this fact. It CAN BE dangerous to use. BUT there are cases where nothing else works except that, and you have to monitor the bunny for diharrea and that sort of thing. I HAVE seen it used sucessfully, when all else failed, but under extreme care and caution.
I'd suggest that you either discuss this thoroughly with your veterinarian, or find a new vet.
Edited: While I'm not going back on what I just said (because it's true) I can emphasize strongly enough how much you should change your veterinarian or at least have a VERY THROROUGH discussion as to WHY he is choosing this drug and if he realizes the problem.
Amoxy is NOT GOOD for rabbits. I'm not going to deny this fact. It CAN BE dangerous to use. BUT there are cases where nothing else works except that, and you have to monitor the bunny for diharrea and that sort of thing. I HAVE seen it used sucessfully, when all else failed, but under extreme care and caution.
I'd suggest that you either discuss this thoroughly with your veterinarian, or find a new vet.
Edited: While I'm not going back on what I just said (because it's true) I can emphasize strongly enough how much you should change your veterinarian or at least have a VERY THROROUGH discussion as to WHY he is choosing this drug and if he realizes the problem.
Leaf
Well-Known Member
Here's a part of a posting I made about the loss of one of my rabbits:
Marietta
Well-Known Member
Here are the articles about Amoxicillin:
http://www.rabbit.org/journal/1/amoxicillin-warning.html
http://www.bunnybytes.com/update0209/page5.html
Marietta
http://www.rabbit.org/journal/1/amoxicillin-warning.html
http://www.bunnybytes.com/update0209/page5.html
Marietta
AngelnSnuffy
Well-Known Member
The "illans" ,if you will, can be given by injectible only.
This from our library:
All forms of oral penicillins, especially the semisynthetic penicillin derivatives such as Amoxicillin and Ampicillin, can be deadly to your rabbit. Never accept a prescription for oral penicillin for your rabbit. . .
This from our library:
All forms of oral penicillins, especially the semisynthetic penicillin derivatives such as Amoxicillin and Ampicillin, can be deadly to your rabbit. Never accept a prescription for oral penicillin for your rabbit. . .
What I'm wondering is why she's only tried azithromycin and Baytril? There are other drugs available for use, before turning to the -cillins.
Yeah. I'd take him off and get another vet.
Monitor him for diharrea or bloating. Make sure he gets lots of good quality, dry hay. Possibly some Pedialyte or Pepto as a precaution for diharrea.
The problem with amoxy is that some rabbits can take it twice and it won't do much, others take one dose and they're dead. It's a really unsafe drug to use unless it has to be.
What's the dosage the vet gave you?
Yeah. I'd take him off and get another vet.
Monitor him for diharrea or bloating. Make sure he gets lots of good quality, dry hay. Possibly some Pedialyte or Pepto as a precaution for diharrea.
The problem with amoxy is that some rabbits can take it twice and it won't do much, others take one dose and they're dead. It's a really unsafe drug to use unless it has to be.
What's the dosage the vet gave you?
I gave him one dose last night and one this am. The dose is 0.75 cc
I have made an appointment for tomorrow morning with another rabbit DR.
I am very mad at the other dr(makes me mad, as i liked them) but i am sending this site(above) and a letter to them asking for a refund.
I have made an appointment for tomorrow morning with another rabbit DR.
I am very mad at the other dr(makes me mad, as i liked them) but i am sending this site(above) and a letter to them asking for a refund.
trailsend
Well-Known Member
yikes I just found this thread. How is your bun now momof3?
I agree - change your Vet. I've had other medications given to me by my Vet for buns, and llamasthat were bad for them and it's terrifying and stressful. I'm glad you came here to get information quickly.
I agree - change your Vet. I've had other medications given to me by my Vet for buns, and llamasthat were bad for them and it's terrifying and stressful. I'm glad you came here to get information quickly.
Luvmyzoocrew
Well-Known Member
UGH momof3 I am so sorry that you have to go through this, I pray that your bun is ok, and I would never set foot in to that vets office EVER. 
ray: Hugs to the both of you:hugsquish:
ray: Hugs to the both of you:hugsquish:
ra7751
Well-Known Member
Oh Boy!!! Amoxicillin is not safe as an oral drug...it has to be injected. It is a "kill all" in the gut. I would immediately start giving him a probiotic such as Bene-Bac. While this does not replace the natural bacteria in the gut, it willstart to stabilize the pH in the gut and hopefully will allow the beneficial bacteria a proper environment to repopulate. I would offer him as much hay as possible and keep him hydrated.Except for the Bene-Bac, I would try to keep things as basic as possible going in that gut. No nutrical, no Pepto, no treats. These type of things only "confuse" the gut even more....you want to "steady the ship" as quickly as possible.Pepto also contains a form of aspirin...salicylate...which is not a good thing in a rabbit's compromiseddigestive system (due primarily to the formation of gastric ulcers).The Bismuth Salicylate in Pepto also acts as an antacid...and you need a stable acidic climate to grow the beneficial bacteria. The way to do that is lots of hay and hydration. If you can do sub-q fluids (or IV) that would be great....if not, unflavored Pedialyte is the way to go.
As far as the Baytril not working against pasteurella, not at all surprised. We stopped using that drug quite some time ago as a front line treatment for most anything. Zithromax....it has to be used in proper dosing for a longer time to be effective. Couple of things, the only way to know it's pasteurella is to culture the current infection. Next, pasteurella can never be cured, only contained. Anything that can cause the slightest compromise in the immune system can allow this bacteria to make an undesired appearance. And to be honest, we are starting to see some resistant bacteria to zithromax. I have been using more Doxycycline of late. But the only true way to know what to treat is get a current culture.
Many drugs such as amoxicillin, spiramycin, amikacin and ampicillin (to name a few) can be used in certain situations. These "situations" should always involve a highly skilled rabbit vet and should never be attempted by anyone other than that.
I think I would have a very serious sit-down with the vet that prescribed oral amoxicillin and get a detailed explanation of why this drug was prescribed as an oral drug. I think most everyone knows that I do "explore outside the box" due to having so many very sick rabbits....but amoxicillin, whileI won't say I would never use it, it would never be one of my first half dozen choices even when used as an injectable. And with the ongoing mutations of bacteria, it might have to be the drug on choice sometime in the near future. And it can be used safely....but only when injected.
We are hoping for a positive outcome here....healing vibes to Buster.
Randy
As far as the Baytril not working against pasteurella, not at all surprised. We stopped using that drug quite some time ago as a front line treatment for most anything. Zithromax....it has to be used in proper dosing for a longer time to be effective. Couple of things, the only way to know it's pasteurella is to culture the current infection. Next, pasteurella can never be cured, only contained. Anything that can cause the slightest compromise in the immune system can allow this bacteria to make an undesired appearance. And to be honest, we are starting to see some resistant bacteria to zithromax. I have been using more Doxycycline of late. But the only true way to know what to treat is get a current culture.
Many drugs such as amoxicillin, spiramycin, amikacin and ampicillin (to name a few) can be used in certain situations. These "situations" should always involve a highly skilled rabbit vet and should never be attempted by anyone other than that.
I think I would have a very serious sit-down with the vet that prescribed oral amoxicillin and get a detailed explanation of why this drug was prescribed as an oral drug. I think most everyone knows that I do "explore outside the box" due to having so many very sick rabbits....but amoxicillin, whileI won't say I would never use it, it would never be one of my first half dozen choices even when used as an injectable. And with the ongoing mutations of bacteria, it might have to be the drug on choice sometime in the near future. And it can be used safely....but only when injected.
We are hoping for a positive outcome here....healing vibes to Buster.
Randy
Thanks Randy,
Do you think the 2 doses of 0.75cc could do alot of harm? Seeing its late i cannot get pedialyte i have hay in his cage but of course can't make him eat it. I go in the am to see the other vet. Will his body be able to Turn "the damage"(if any) around? So far so good with no signs of diarhea, does it take awhile?
Do you think the 2 doses of 0.75cc could do alot of harm? Seeing its late i cannot get pedialyte i have hay in his cage but of course can't make him eat it. I go in the am to see the other vet. Will his body be able to Turn "the damage"(if any) around? So far so good with no signs of diarhea, does it take awhile?
ra7751
Well-Known Member
How it affects him depends on lots of things....weight, overall health, how stable his GI was before the amox.etc. The amount given depends on his weight and the concentration of the drug. And I have known some rabbits that have not had a problem with amox....let's hope Buster is one of them. But I would not push my luck....I think you already know that he should not have more of that by mouth (and preferably not at all).
It might be a couple of days until you noticeany changes in the gut. If I remember correctly, this drug doesn't actually kill the bacteria....it prevents the sensitive bacteria from reproducing so you won't see a difference until a life cycle of the beneficial bacteria in the gut. While the loss of that bacteria can be devastating, I would suspect the way this drug works will also allow some time to stabilize the gut.
I would highly suggest you ask the new vet you are going to be seeing to perform a blood panel and urinalysis. This drug can damage the kidneys. While he has not had a huge amount, having those values will allow comparison if something comes up with the renal system.
Randy
It might be a couple of days until you noticeany changes in the gut. If I remember correctly, this drug doesn't actually kill the bacteria....it prevents the sensitive bacteria from reproducing so you won't see a difference until a life cycle of the beneficial bacteria in the gut. While the loss of that bacteria can be devastating, I would suspect the way this drug works will also allow some time to stabilize the gut.
I would highly suggest you ask the new vet you are going to be seeing to perform a blood panel and urinalysis. This drug can damage the kidneys. While he has not had a huge amount, having those values will allow comparison if something comes up with the renal system.
Randy
lagadvocate
Well-Known Member
http://www.medirabbit.com/Unsafe_medication/dangerous_antibiotics.htm
This lists amoxicillan effect as diarrhea, not necessarily a fatal med. But like others have said, definitely not a good treatment choice for the simple risk factor. How did your vet make the pasturella dx?
This lists amoxicillan effect as diarrhea, not necessarily a fatal med. But like others have said, definitely not a good treatment choice for the simple risk factor. How did your vet make the pasturella dx?
pamnock
Well-Known Member
The biggest concern with theoral"cillins" is that they can cause a major disruption of intestinal flora resulting in fatal entertoxemia. I've heard of it happening quite a few times, often within one to three doses.
Pam
Pam
Is the main concern the diarrhea? He has already had two doses(nothing i can do) but what can i do besides offer water, hay and pray it doesn't effect him. So far he is ok. Is there anything else i can give him to reverse the effects on him?
