Introduction from PA

[audrinasmommy88]

I agree with you on those parrot bites. Ive been bitten by our conure and he drew blood on me. Definitely doesnt feel good. I like the Siamese color too My next rabbit will probably be a lop or a flemmie. i'm dying to have one of those breeds

 

[Shelbers91]

audrinasmommy88 wrote:

I agree with you on those parrot bites. Ive been bitten by our conure and he drew blood on me. Definitely doesnt feel good. I like the Siamese color too My next rabbit will probably be a lop or a flemmie. i'm dying to have one of those breeds

Omg baby lops = cuteness and flemmies are huuuge yea I've been nailed by cockatiels and budgies and a parrotlets and a love bird which isn't bad the blue crowned conure was worse. Try have bigger beaks then the sun conures but the worst so far was I was bit by (sucks I can't remember the species but I only worked with it once and had to get it cuz it flew off the table and it's small but has the strength of An amazon and bit all up and down my finger not letting go and it could have splintered the bones in my fingers. But boy did my finger swell up like a hot dog lol

 

[audrinasmommy88]

Yea I've become very nervous around our bird. It's a fight to get him out of the cage, but he's a sweetheart once he's out. Makes no sense to me. He will make a whole lot of noise for someone to come let him out but yet doesn't want you to touch him. We've tried opening the cage and letting him come out by himself but he just sits there and won't come out. So I make my husband take him out so I can hold him haha. But I commend you on helping birds. We need more people like you in this world

 

[Shelbers91]

audrinasmommy88 wrote:

Yea I've become very nervous around our bird. It's a fight to get him out of the cage, but he's a sweetheart once he's out. Makes no sense to me. He will make a whole lot of noise for someone to come let him out but yet doesn't want you to touch him. We've tried opening the cage and letting him come out by himself but he just sits there and won't come out. So I make my husband take him out so I can hold him haha. But I commend you on helping birds. We need more people like you in this world

Why thank you <3 my cockatiel was like that at first I used a mens sock on my arm and he climbed right on from his cage and then we took off the sock after and after about a month or 2 he was still aggressive when you went to get him from the cage with your hand but by then we didn't need to get him from the cage cuz he'd either fly to us or his perch. But I kept him fully flighted, can yours fly?

 

[audrinasmommy88]

No he cant fly. We keep his wings clipped only because we have 2 cats and are scared they will catch him.

 

[Shelbers91]

audrinasmommy88 wrote:

No he cant fly. We keep his wings clipped only because we have 2 cats and are scared they will catch him.

Oh ok, well this is all up to you and your opinion. In my opinion I kept Hector fully flighted still even when my parents got a dog that wanted to eat them because I figured if he can fly, then if he falls on the ground at least he could still fly away from the dog. Also he can keep high up. He never flew below chest level after the dog came into the picture. And The freedom of flight helps with their comfort level.

Like fight or flight. If someone or something would attack you you could choose to fight or run, but if your legs are shackled together, you can't run. All you can do is fight. So with a bird, if the wings are clipped and it is confused or frightened it can't fly it can only bite.

I know some cats that are actually scared of conures so it's also a matter of how they interact together. I also know some cats that get along with little budgies

 

[audrinasmommy88]

I never thought of it that way. Im going to talk to my husband about not clipping his wings anymore. The cats dont take their eyes off of him when he is out. They even go up to his cage and have even been bitten by him before and they still havent learned their lesson.

 

[Shelbers91]

audrinasmommy88 wrote:

I never thought of it that way. Im going to talk to my husband about not clipping his wings anymore. The cats dont take their eyes off of him when he is out. They even go up to his cage and have even been bitten by him before and they still havent learned their lesson.

Oh ok. I hope whatever you decide works out for you . Like I said it's just what I see from their perspective. And I thi k the cats might learn with operant conditioning that after quite a few times being bitten they should leave the bird alone (should though is the key word )

 

[MiniLopHop]

I got very lucky with my finches. I opened the door to feed them one day and Frank flew out! Andre was in the room and had Frank in his mouth in a heartbeat. I screamed "Andre NO!" Believe it or not, Andre spit Frank out and looked at me all confused! I swear it was like a cartoon. I locked the cat out of the room and caught the finch. He was a bit slobbery but totally unhurt. It was been 2 years and Frank is still going strong.

 

[Shelbers91]

I'm glad he's ok!! I think it's like the wild cat brought me a wood frog yesterday and it was kinda dry, but when I wet it it like "came back to life" when it's skin absorbed the water (very cool) and was better. Also no markes on the frog, wouldnt let me upload pic.. will have too later

Also! Last night I had a dream that I got a Siamese Rex and he was so cute and sweet and followed me around and wanted to be on my bed lol

 

[lotsoluffles]

Welcome from a fellow Pennsylvanian! I'm just a little bit confused by your first post. You're a business major, so I'm sure you have it all figured out, but I just don't see how this could ever work. What exactly is your general business plan?

 

[Shelbers91]

lotsoluffles wrote:

Welcome from a fellow Pennsylvanian! I'm just a little bit confused by your first post. You're a business major, so I'm sure you have it all figured out, but I just don't see how this could ever work. What exactly is your general business plan?

Hi I'm not all to sure what you mean, the kennel or breeding rabbits.

I used to work at a couple kennels and have seen what I like and do not like about them and or setup. I have a basic layout for 19 basic kennel runs and 4 suites. (including outside play yards, 1 per suite and a yard for the connected runs (and to only let one out at a time or family/related dogs out together if requested))As well as I've seen quite a few other kennels and have a basic layout for a few cat pads. I already have some tanks and a cage tank for smaller critters and have a list of cleaning supplies, animal cost per night and a list of foods to keep on hand if people didn't want to bring their own food and how much per day it would cost. I still have a ways to go in college before this and 99.9% of people I've asked opinions on gave positive feed back. I have some other things kind of thought out but you gotta have a carrer some how and not just a job. So I still put thought into it and come up with new ideas. Like someone told me I should also have a small stable on site cuz they have horses and not to many good places to board them. So that was another additional idea. Everything is a work in progress, but I mean if there are kennels out there, it's obviously not impossible because they do exist.

 

[Shelbers91]

Oh and I just started the business major but I've been in te biology major for about a year now

 

[Wabbitdad12]

I would like to welcome you to Rabbits Online, my name is Dave and I am a moderator on the forum. So if I can be of any help please let me know. This is a terrific website for rabbits and their slaves, not only is it very active but also friendly. I am so glad you’re here and I know you will enjoy it.

Raising of rabbits for meat is a rather heated topic on this site and people have very strong views on.Sometimes comments on this subject can get rather nasty, so we dont' discuss it as there are sites that are devoted to this. The breeders section is for those people who breed rabbits to better the breed and breeding for showing.

Many bunnies’ recommend their slaves to this site so we may learn of others methods to keeping our furry masters happy.

If you everhave a sick bunny, please post in The Infirmary and include your rabbit's age, breed and health history as well diet and output details leading up to the problem.

Here are somelinks I thought you might find interesting:

*For reference the Library section

*To brag or tell everyone about the antics of your bunny or just to talk about your day here is where to start a Bunny Blog, you can also look back at it later and remember when you had a life before your bunny.

*Now all the bunny’s like talk to each other when we mere slaves aren’t around in the Bunny Chat is the spot to be.

*The House Rabbit Society has a lot of good information on what veggies are safe for bunny’s, etc.

*Here is a link to learn what your furry master is trying to say to you How to Understand Your Bunny's Language

*Rabbits Online also has regional forums , this a good way to find a vet in your area that has experience with rabbits and to find out from other nearby of good sources of rabbit supplies.

The Let Your Hare Down section is for anything non-bunny related.

Here is a link tothat will help you and your bunny to connect, How to Bond with Your Bunny.

Now every forum has rules and ours can be found with this link Rabbits Online Forum Rules. This gives guidelines on what is acceptable, what is not and how we hope everyone will treat each other.

Everyone on this forum loves to see pictures of each other’s bunnies. So if you would like to post a picture this link will help you do that, Upload Photo's to Photo Gallery. Then in the post, you click on the "G" in the tool bar to insert your photo. Many people also use Photobucket. You just copy the img file and paste it into the post.

Don’t hesitate to ask questions and I am glad you have joined rabbits online; I look forward to seeing you around.

 

[Shelbers91]

Oh ok thanks! and ok I dont need to descus the meat part at all, I guess I'm just the type who doesnt get offended by too much and I see people as animals and think about how carnivores hunt to live and it's natural and how to make it more humane and let the buns still have fun. So that's the last on that subject.

I've also thought about showing rabbits or at least going to the shows to see what's all there. I'll probably hit up the breeders section and when I finally get some buns have them chat in the buns only section ^^

So sorry if I may have offended anyone. See I can be sweet too ;P

 

[lotsoluffles]

Shelbers91 wrote:

Hi I'm not all to sure what you mean, the kennel or breeding rabbits.

I used to work at a couple kennels and have seen what I like and do not like about them and or setup. I have a basic layout for 19 basic kennel runs and 4 suites. (including outside play yards, 1 per suite and a yard for the connected runs (and to only let one out at a time or family/related dogs out together if requested))As well as I've seen quite a few other kennels and have a basic layout for a few cat pads. I already have some tanks and a cage tank for smaller critters and have a list of cleaning supplies, animal cost per night and a list of foods to keep on hand if people didn't want to bring their own food and how much per day it would cost. I still have a ways to go in college before this and 99.9% of people I've asked opinions on gave positive feed back. I have some other things kind of thought out but you gotta have a carrer some how and not just a job. So I still put thought into it and come up with new ideas. Like someone told me I should also have a small stable on site cuz they have horses and not to many good places to board them. So that was another additional idea. Everything is a work in progress, but I mean if there are kennels out there, it's obviously not impossible because they do exist.

I meant the rabbit breeding, but now I guess also the kennel.

As a dog person, I support your kennel idea. I can *NOT* tell you how horrific it is to check a dog into a business, then come back a week later an realize your now now has "kennel cough" (pneumonia) and severe digestive issues because some idiot forgot which food was his!!

As a rabbit owner, I support the idea of giving rabbits a happy life before selling them to a slaughterhouse or taking their babies away and giving them to a pet store.

The problem isn't about your ideas; they're all very good ideas. I was just confused about the money. To do everything you're looking to do would require far too much spending, making the prices higher (something you cannot control with the rabbits, since the slaughterhouse chooses what to pay for them and the pet stores don't care and just want the cheapest pets), which means you'll either get fewer customers or less income. I can run the numbers for you right now for the rabbits, assuming you start only a rabbit farm for slaughter, since you can be guaranteed payment that way:

Rabbits require a minimum of $50 per month per rabbit for humane living conditions ($80 minimum in my area if you account for more than just physical needs). Vet visits average about $65 per visit, required every 6 months to a year (depending on what the vet suggests). Let's assume you keep the rabbits for 2 years before you start selling them. That would be about $75 per cage per rabbit (accounting for larger cages being able to hold multiple rabbits). Rexes generally have litters of 7 every 3 months or so, resulting in 21 rabbits per year. But assuming your rabbit becomes fertile at 6 months, let's assume you breed her the whole time, for 32 kits. These rabbits should not be bred with each other, to prevent genetic problems that may affect their value. This would mean 34 cages (or enough large cages to house all the rabbits). Let's assume the kits require no expense until they're 2 months old (the mother nurses them). That would be 22 months worth of expenses before you can sell them. Let's assume the slaughterhouse pays you the best possible (albeit, unreasonable) price, which is about $4 per pelt and $10.50 for the meat. To save money, let's assume you sell the parents right after the first year and a half of breeding, and all the kits are nursed. Here would be your profits in the first 2 years alone, when businesses normally start to see their first signs of profit:

• The price of humane living conditions: (50 * 24 * 2) + (32 * 50 * 22) = $37,600
• The price of housing (ONE TIME PAYMENT): 75 * 34 = $2,550
• The price of health care: 34 * 2 * 65 = $4,420
• Profit from fur & meat: (34 * 4) + (34 * 10.5) = $493

You can see here that you will be in massive debt by the end of these two years.

So let's assume this is the fourth year you're working on this, and you already have the cages and have somehow managed to pay off the debt (we're assuming you start off with $0 here, with no profit and no debt, like the last 2 years never happened except you still have the cages.) Let's assume the same conditions:


$0
- $37,600
-$4,420
+$493
------------------
-$41,527


This is a debt that will increase by that amount every 2 years. Rabbit farms work because they do not care about the rabbits and deny them all the things you wish to give them. Even then, their profits are not great. I'm glad that they aren't, because it's less incentive for people to open up rabbit farms. I had a friend who had a rabbit farm, and they bought pellets in bulk (no hay), and used wire-bottom cages (risking sore hocks) to save on litter, kept their rabbits in small cages with a lot of other rabbits to cut down on cage costs, and I'm pretty sure their rabbits did not have a real vet visit between them. They managed to make money this way because inhumane conditions are cheaper.

Your kennel probably has a better chance, though. You'd be working with pets, so people would be willing to spend more to keep them healthy and happy. Plus, with exotic pets such as horses, birds, and rabbits, you'll be fulfilling a need that is ignored by the current market, meaning owners of these pets would be forced to use your service since there are no alternatives. Doing it all together with more popular pets such as dogs and cats allows you to even out the debt from certain areas for a greater chance of profit (the horses may cost $500 a day to take care of but you charge $200, which would be fine since the dogs would cost $25 a day and make you $50 a day, and the dogs are more abundant, so you'd be making enough to cover it). That's something you wouldn't be able to do in a rabbit farm... With the kennel, you might even see your first profit in the first year, assuming you cut a few costs (volunteers, maybe?).

 

[Shelbers91]

Wow, um, Thank you, I really do appriciate your enthusiasm and regaurds to the rabbits as well as your extreme research skills and props for your mathmatics lol However I do believe now we might be at a slight misunderstanding

You are right in all reguards, however i guess i made it sound like I wanted to make a business business off of the rabbits, and no, I am sorry if I mislead you. I'd like to breed for meat (and I know I want to look into proper lisencing) but I only want to do it to put more food (healthy and organic) on the table for myself and family/friends. Maybe you'd call it hobby like?

Also I agree with you 100% I worked at fluff and stuff and they took great care of the dogs, and i worked at dog central (dog daycare)and god i never want to be around it again. He fired me because i didnt do something his way, I stopped a husky from tearing up a havaneese and he said i should have just let it settle on its own instead of interfearing.

Also I try to do my best for my animals. I still take my budgies to the vet annualy, but when I had another budgie and a cockatiel (rescues, but if you bought them theyre not expensive parrots) The annual vet cost for me was $300, right now its $150, and none of these include cost of grahm staining and crop culture if i get those done (that varies)

for some reason it wont let my pictures show now, so these links will have to do..

This is where my birdies live (their aviary)

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000495313835&ref=tn_tnmn#!/photo.php?fbid=377463545613486&set=a.107088729317637.14488.100000495313835&type=3&theater

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000495313835&ref=tn_tnmn#!/photo.php?fbid=377463805613460&set=a.107088729317637.14488.100000495313835&type=3&theater

This is where the hermit crabs live (3 purple pinchers in a 29gal tank, Ecoearth soil, fresh water, salt water, lava rock caves, moss pitt etc.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000495313835&ref=tn_tnmn#!/photo.php?fbid=108297062530137&set=a.107088729317637.14488.100000495313835&type=3&theater

I used to have a female madagascar hissing cockroach a friend gave me, they only live a couple years but this was her tank. 10gal tank, drift wood food and water dish etc. Shes since passed away but I updadted her tank after in case I got another and it looks even better then this ^^

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000495313835&ref=tn_tnmn#!/photo.php?fbid=187510511275458&set=a.107088729317637.14488.100000495313835&type=3&theater

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000495313835&ref=tn_tnmn#!/photo.php?fbid=186251044734738&set=a.107088729317637.14488.100000495313835&type=3&theater

I also had my comet goldfish that I got at a carnival as a child when i was 7, for 11 years, and had their offspring for 8 years. So I try to take the best care I can and make sure all my animals are happy <3 Cuz I just love them so much!

I hope that makes you feel better Especially the cockroach habitat, cuz i dont know anyone else (yet) that would walk around petting a cockroach and let it on their shoulder and stuff lol my boyfriend hated it but she was just so darn cute! dontcha think?

 

[lotsoluffles]

Ah, I see. Though I feel obliged to point out that, whether domestic or wild, rabbit meat is inferior to even domestic turkey and chicken meat as far as healthiness goes. It is fattier and has more cholesterol. Pretty sure chicken/turkey also doesn't need a license, which is the same for the rabbits, assuming you don't sell them to a store or pet store, and make less than $500 from them.

Haha, I have no doubts that you can take care of a rabbit. I was more worried about warning you about the costs, since I tend to worry a lot over details. You would have been racking up debt like that while trying to help animals, which is not a good outcome for someone with good intentions. So I'm glad you're just going to be using them more as pets instead.

D'aww! ^^ I love birds; they're so smart. That definitely looks like a great place to have them. I've never had a hermit crab before; I was pretty much only allowed to have hamsters and a dog. Also never had a cockroach. I have a severe phobia of insects, except for tarantulas.

Also, I was an art major turned bio major. If you don't mind me asking, why did you choose to switch to business? If there's a class I need to worry about, I'd lovee some warning. :halo

 

[Shelbers91]

Also I'm the type that hates wasting things, so having rabbits with good quality fur helps eliminate wasting and I'd make stuff for myself if I was that handy, but I'm not. Also I do plan on building hutches and don't really want too many at a time

 

[Shelbers91]

Lol if your affraid of insects of course your not affraid of spiders cuz they are aracnids(sp?) silly! Fear of insects is entomophobia while spiders is aracniphobia.

And thanks. It's ok I do that alot too with detail

Also I didn't change I am kinda double majoring, and let me tell you, ive had good grades in bio up until now. I am dying in chemistry. One cuz it's hard and 2 I can't understand what my professor says half the time. In good in lab but I'm dying in lecture..