In desperate need of help...not sure if vet is right....

[pinksprklmonkey]

Hi my name is Arielle and I have a bunny named Blue. He is 11 years old and up until recently he was very healthy.

A couple months ago he got an upper respiratory infection and I took him to the vet. They handed me antibiotics and on my estimate it said it was Baytril. I have had several other rabbits and I remembered getting that before so I thought nothing of it.

It was a 3 week course and his symptoms went away. He was his happy, hoppy self. This last Tuesday I noticed him sniffling again and he had white discharge coming out of his nose. In addition his poops looked kinda small and he isn't eating as much as he usually does. So I took him the vet again today. He suspects it may be pneumonia and wanted me to do blood work, x-rays and a culture. Honestly, I couldn't afford all of those things so I did the culture and Blue got an injection and got more antibiotics.

Ok, so I get home and read on the bottle that it is Amoxicillin. I thought I read rabbits can't have penicillin in any form. So I call the doctor. He says it's not true that they can't have penicillin and that he "did well on it last time." So he says the last round wasn't baytril but Amoxicillin.

I'm so confused and worried. I don't want to give him something that will hurt him further. And now I'm wondering if this is back because of the first round of antibiotics.

Does anyone know the truth here? I'm so worried about my Blue and I want to do the best for him.

Thank you so much.

Also, his diet consists of pellets, timothy hay and fresh veggies and fruit. Mostly dandelion greens, green beans, cilantro and parsley, carrots and bananas.

 

[Samara]

God, I'm so so sorry you're going through this scare.

Let's get down to the facts:

http://www.rabbit.org/health/antibiotics.html

"... Table 1 contains a summary of some commonly available antibiotics, routes of administration, and the risk of antibiotic-associated diarrhea due to disruption of the normal intestinal flora."

This link is a great chart with BRAND names like Baytril:

http://www.lagomorphs.com/Drugsbyclass.pdf

My personal understanding is that any of the penicillin meds need to be administered via injection; the charts seem to go along with this also.

As far as oral antibiotics, I've always seen the best results with Cipro in small pets. I ask for it by name with my own.

Try doing a scruff test to see if Blue is dehydrated; that should be the foremost concern. Just pull up the fur on the back of his neck to see if it spring back down. If it doesn't he needs some fluids. I would offer flavored Pedialyte, or a safe fruit flavored green/black decaffeinated tea. It needs to be something flavorful to entice him to drink. Let us know if that doesn't work...we can walk you through how to help get fluids into him otherwise. I'll cross my fingers he'll take to something flavorful though.

What and how does he eat normally? What specifically do you feed for pellets/hay/fresh fruits? Any supplements? It'll help us figure out his mystery a bit more.

Droppings that are hard and dark are usually because a bun isn't taking in enough fiber. Does he have unlimited hay?

 

[Samara]

Okay, I reread what you posted and I saw you listed the veggies; that helps. Veggies help with water intake also - is he eating ANY of the veggies?

What kind of pellet and hay are you feeding? Have you tried changing hay types just to encourage him to eat more? Mine like Soft Orchard Grass (comes in a green bag most times) and I find they chow down fast on that. That will help his wee poop.

It's good he doesn't have liquid poop though, so be thankful for that!

 

[Samara]

As an aside, this is a great article on elderly buns:

http://www.rabbit.org/care/elderbun.html

...for when you have time to peruse it.

 

[pinksprklmonkey]

Thank you for replying!

The Vet did give him an injection (Baytril) and then the antibiotics are called Augmentin Drops.

He does have unlimited hay, though he honestly doesn't seem to like it very much. He used to love Alfa-Alfa but I was told that wasn't good for older rabbits because of weight gain so I switched to Timonthy (Kaytee Brand), but this was years ago.

The Vet said he was slightly dehydrated and he said he gave him a fluid injection. He has also lost a 1/2 a pound since the last visit a couple months ago.

His pellets are also the Kaytee Brand. I give him veggies twice a day, once in the morning and once before bed.

He also has malocclusion, and I trim his teeth regularly. He is also a free range bunny and has his run of the house. He never chews anything though, I think he doesn't like chewing on things he doesn't recognize because of his teeth (but who knows).

 

[pinksprklmonkey]

So based on that chart I shouldn't give him the antibiotics?? I don't know what to give him then. My Vet said there was an antibiotic that he ordered for Blue that would "work better" that would be here on Monday. But he didn't tell me what it was called.

Is it best to wait for this one? Sorry for all the questions but I'm a little frantic.

 

[Samara]

Augmentin is amoxicillin (penicillin). I seriously question giving a rabbit Augmentin, especially in anything other than an injection. I think that's human grade stuff normally. I'm hoping one of the med-savvy forum goers sees this posting.

Are you able to call some other rabbit vet and verify? Even if they aren't in your area, they will usually confirm information over the phone. Especially if you explain the situation if need be.

Buns like alfalfa because it's sweet tasting, but it is best for baby buns usually. I've heard and read of people that use it to put weight on their sick buns. It can cause loose stool though, which can make them very sick.

If his poop is very small and hard, it couldn't hurt in my opinion to get a small bag of alfalfa and see if he takes to it. Try mixing it with the timothy you buy. My vet used to recommend Wheat Grass hay for my elder bun when he was alive to aid in digestion.

Were you present for the fluid injection? I get annoyed with vets that want to take pets "out back" for procedures. X-rays and that sort of thing are one thing, but sub-q fluids can be done in an exam room on a table. It isn't rocket science.

The pain of the malocclusion could have put him off his food, but that's unlikely because you mentioned you trim his teeth regularly.

I'm wondering if these are all symptoms of his malocclusion. I'm doing some interweb surfing now to see what I can come up with. I remember seeing something about running eyes and nose related to teeth problems and teeth grinding.

 

[Samara]

I'd be frantic too. I would personally wait, but I can't make that choice for you. I'm a totally different person. Do what your gut says.

Try this number: Weare Animal Hospital; Phone 603-529-4999. Dr. Dutton specifically has a great rep around NH. Just call and ask over the phone if Augmentin drops are okay to give orally to a rabbit. If they want further information, fill them in. Vets want to help people, even if you're states away. It's kind of like calling and saying "What kind of shots does my puppy need?" It's just general information.

 

[Samara]

Boy howdy though, the next time I'm at the vet I'm going to grill him about rabbit meds just to expand my knowledge base.

 

[pinksprklmonkey]

Ok, I just called them and the they said no penicillin based products but they couldn't tell me (without coming in) what would be ok or better.

I know it's a long shot but any idea where I can get a list of vets around here that is reputable? I went to the house rabbit society website and the las vegas link is down. Not sure what I can do but I know I need to act fairly quickly since a lot of vets aren't open over the weekend.

 

[Samara]

My sister in law grew up in Las Vegas, but she isn't answering her phone right now. I can keep trying though.

 

[Samara]

http://www.yellowpages.com/las-vega...nimal-hospital-21911339/reviews?lid=168614935


There is a person with a rabbit that posted a review; try them?

 

[Samara]

What does Blue sound like in his chest when you put your ear to him?

 

[Samara]

What I'm doing is googling Rabbit Las Vegas vet and then taking the name of the office and googling [office name] reviews - then checking out the reviews to see what people have said.

 

[pinksprklmonkey]

I have a call to Aloha Vet. They have the doctor who does rabbits from that other hospital you posted. I'm waiting for a call back.

When I listen to him it sounds like there is catching and he sounds like he has a cold. Sniffling, sneezing and heavy breathing.

 

[Samara]

Is there a wheezy sounds too? Especially when he exhales?

That to me would indicate pneumonia...

If there isn't then it sounds like a regular cold. You are doing the right thing about jumping on vets though, so pat yourself on the back. You really care about the wee munchkin

Just because Blue didn't cure up completely from a round of antibiotics doesn't mean it's pneumonia. It sounds like either the meds weren't the right kind (which is why they recommend doing the culture so you can attack it the first time, but trust me, we understand about financial cost involved. Happens to the best of us, frankly), or that he needed a longer dosage.

Take a deep breath. Blue will be able to sense your panic and fear. It won't help either of you. Do whatever you can to calm down and relax; providing him with a calm you will help him feel emotionally better.

Let me know how that call back goes. :hearts:

 

[Nancy McClelland]

Dr Jason is excellent--good luck. We have one bunny that is 13 in April, but don't know if she will make it or not.

 

[Samara]

:sad:

 

[LakeCondo]

Once things are back on track, I'd transition to part alfalfa hay. It's often advised for elderly rabbits.

 

[pinksprklmonkey]

I still haven't heard back from the vets. I called back and they said the were busy. Both offices are open briefly tomorrow morning so if I don't get a call tonight I'm going to shop up with Blue. In the meantime I'm going to hold off on giving him the meds I have. First is do no harm and I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if the medicine made him worse when I knew better.

He does have some wheezing. The vet said he heard wheezing but not enough to completely say pneumonia. Tonight I'm going to pick up some alfalfa and some pedialite.

Thank you and I'll keep you updated.