Ignorant new grandfather needs help with food!

[cardcrimson]

Hi all,

As I posted in the Hutch section, I'm a newbie. My daughter is getting a mini lop for Christmas and I've been reading about food. The pet store where the new addition is coming from, set me home with Kaytee Fiesta Mix. Online, it gets mixed reviews and was crucified in an earlier post regarding the buns future hutch. Does it go back to the store with the corner litter box? The bun is 10 weeks old, and the store made it clear that young buns need different food from older ones (after one year, they young bun food could kill and older one).

As far as other food, I have LPS hay and some hay treats, a chewing log, some random snack logs, and some apple branches.

Also, do buns need bedding material? And if so, what will work the best and not be hazardous to their digestive systems.

Thanks again for all the help!

Steve

 

[cardcrimson]

A quick additional thought. As I assume the little guy is being fed the Fiesta mix at the store until I pick him up on Monday, is there a transition period when changing diets? Do you slowly transition from one to the other?

 

[Korr_and_Sophie]

Food mixes that contain seeds, nuts, dried fruits and other extra bits are junk food for rabbits. They are marketed so people will buy them with little to no reguard to the health of the rabbit. If you can take it back and get something better. I use Oxbow and have had good results using it. Oxbow does make a food for young rabbits and a food for adults.
Foods for young rabbits are typically alfalfa hay based. Alfalfa hay is higher in calcium and is richer than timothy, so it is not recommender for adults. Using an alfalfa based pellet won't kill and adult, but it is more than more pets needs. A timothy hay based pellet is lower in protein and calcium while being higher in fibre with is more suited to an adult pet rabbit.

A corner litter box can be used, but is more for smaller breeds and even then not the best. I do have one rabbit who has a corner one as he won't use anything else. My bonded pairs have a corner box in addition to a larger square box. I would recommended a medium or large size cat litter box for a rabbit.

The other food and treat you have sound good, but it is hard to determine if they are really suitable without seeing a picture or link.

For bedding, I use fleece. My rabbits don't chew it and any holes don't fray like a towel will. In the litter boxes, I use wood pellets.

 

[Imbrium]

yes, it's best to wean them from one food to the next... with such an awful food, you'll need to pick out everything but the pellets from the mix while you're weaning him onto something better. you should probably also ask to make sure that's what he's being fed now.

the best foods are sherwood forest (only available online - http://www.naturalrabbitfood.com/sherwood-forest-natural-rabbit-food/ ) and oxbow essentials. personally, I'll only feed the sherwood - I love that it's all natural with no added sugars or molasses like almost all other foods have. if you go with the sherwood, their "baby" formula is meant for 12 weeks and younger - since the bunny is already 10 weeks and will have to be transitioned to a new food over the course of a week or two, you should go ahead and start with the adult formula if you go with the sherwood... not sure about oxbow's baby formula.

what are the snack logs like? do they have any treats/food stuffs stuck to them or inside them? if so, they're a no-no. even if they don't, those types of treats/chews are higher in sugar so they're not the healthiest choices. if you do use them, you should limit access if he's really into chewing them. if you're looking for more variety in chew toys, willow tends to be very popular (petsmart sells various willow chews).

for hay, the pet store hay is fine... however, it's *really* pricey. most people buy hay by the bale from a feed store - it's like $1 for 7-8 lbs instead of $3 for 1 lb at pet stores. a bale can be stored for a year or more as long as it's kept dry and insect-free. you can use plastic storage bins, unscented trash bags, bale bags, etc. to store it in. (I got my bale bags here - http://www.tackwholesale.com/bale-bags-c-11.html , I went with two half-bale bags so it would be easier to move around and I can stack them to take up less space)

bedding isn't needed inside, and can often confuse their potty habits (making them think the whole cage is a litter box). most rabbits prefer to sleep on a hard surface anyway. fleece is good if you want something to line the floors with, because it's safe if chewed/ingested due to the fibers being really short. outside, straw is the best insulator (hay also works, just not quite as well)... straw can be purchased very cheaply at a feed store. for litter boxes, wood pellets (from a feed store) or wood stove pellets (some hardware stores sell them... make sure they don't say they have an accelerant added) work very well and are dirt cheap ($5-7 for 40 lbs).

 

[ldoerr]

I feed my 2 adult rabbits Oxbow. I get it here. DrFosters&Smith. The shipping is $5-6, unless you order $50 worth of stuff, in that case shipping is free. It arrives fast. For your rabbit I would feed the Young rabbit food. You could get 10lbs and it would last you a while.

I agree 100% that you should get your rabbits hay from a feed store. 100x cheaper than petstore. I once calculated it out and I could get a 100lb bale of hay at the feed store (that costs at most $30). If I were to buy the same amount of hay at petco, it would cost over $1000.

 

[JBun]

You'll want to do what Imbrium said about the food. Pick the treat pieces out(a pain I know) and just feed the plain green pellets. Then get a new food and over 2 weeks gradually switch over to the new food starting with a very small amount of the new food and mixing it with the old food. Mske sure you get the exact same kind as they are feeding her right now, when you bring her home. You don't want to change foods suddenly. The reason you don't want to switch a rabbits food suddenly, and why you very gradually and slowly transition onto a new food, is because rabbits have a very sensitive digestive system. If you change foods suddenly, it upsets the balance of bacteria in the digestion, and as a result can make the rabbit very sick, even to the point of dying. So by transitioning to a new food slowly, you are giving the rabbits digestion time to gradually get used to the new food. Usally the best way to know it your rabbit is having digestive problems is if their poop changes. If the poop gets smaller than normal, is irregular shaped, or is soft and mushy, then it is having a problem and you need to adjust it's diet. If a rabbit ever stops pooping, then it is an emergency.

A lot of us use the wood pellets in our litter boxes cause they're cheap and work well, but there are other kinds that are ok for rabbits too. Yesterday's News pellets, Carefresh bedding, aspen bedding, Kaytee soft granule bedding are all safe for rabbits. Don't use cat litters as they cause respiratory problems with rabbits and the clumping ones can kill rabbits, also the cedar and pine shavings have oils in them that aren't good for rabbits either. Sometimes with picking out the right litter and litter box will depend on how easily your rabbit will train. I had one bunny that wouldn't use her litter box til I changed the kind of litter I was using. I have another rabbit that had a corner box but she was always peeing on her floor and digging the litter out making a mess. I got a larger rectangle kitty litter box, and that was the end of the messes. It also worked well because on one end of the box she peed and on the other end I would put her hay so she could poop and eat in the box.

You probably never thought that getting a rabbit could be so tricky, but once you learn the good and bad things for rabbits, then it gets easier. Just remember that most rabbits are big chewers, so you need to make sure everything in their environment is safe to chew on.

If that petshop is saying that that 'treat food' is ok, but feeding adult rabbits, young rabbit food will kill them, then those people don't know anything. I've found that most petstore people don't really have a clue about what is really good for rabbits, so you're pretty much stuck doing your own research and better off not listening to their advice. Typically young rabbits are fed an alfalfa based pellet because it is higher in protein and calcium, and that's what young rabbits need. Some people will feed unlimited pellets til the baby is about 6 months old, and some people will feed limited pellets to young rabbits, but in a higher amount than an adult rabbit would get. For my baby rabbits, they would get a poopy bum on unlimited pellets so I would limit my baby buns pellets and free feed timothy hay. When a rabbit is around 6 months old, alot of people wil switch their rabbits to a limited timothy pellet because it has less protein and calcium, but some people will also feed an adult rabbit an alfalfa based pellet in limited amounts, and it doesn't kill them. If they meant feeding that treat food would kill an adult rabbit, yeah it could because of all the carbs and sugars in it, but it can also kill a young rabbit as well. Rabbits are very sensitive to too many carbs and sugars, some more than others. All you need is a plain alfalfa based pellet without corn in the ingredient list. I like sherwood forest food, but I've also just gotten a plain alfalfa pellet at walmart as well. And you always want to feed unlimited grass hay to your bunny, even when she's an adult as it is good for their digestion and helps prevent digestive problems. I get timothy in a bale for my rabbits. If you have a horse feed store with it then that is by far the cheapest way to go.

I'm glad you are researching what will be best for your daughter's new bunny. Unfortunately most new rabbits don't live very long because the owners don't do any research and they make a lot of common mistakes, that end up being bad for the rabbit. The library section on this forum has a lot of helpful info as well as the HRS website. Here's the link, and I hope your daughter loves her new bunny and has a great Christmas

http://www.rabbit.org/care/veggies.html

 

[cardcrimson]

Thanks for all the help! Santa brought the little guy and our daughter is very, very excited. We all survived Christmas day intact, and Nibbler had his first journey out of the pen this morning. So far, he seems to be a happy bunny.

Took the Fiesta Mix back, as they were not actually feeding him that. Instead he was getting a plain alfalfa pellet which he is now enjoying at home. Funny, it was about half the price. . . .

Litter box is going okay. Opted for wood pellets, which appear to be very absorbent and so far so good with odor control.

A couple of additional questions:

Nibbler is using the box for his tinkles very well, but he is dropping pills nearly everywhere else. I've looked around, but haven't found a good deal of info on that issue. Any suggestions?

Also, he's eating alfalfa pellets, but not a lot of hay that's in the pen. Should I limit the pellets? He does get a timothy cube treat from time to time (I pull it out after he nibbles on it for a little while); the ingredients show only hay and alfalfa. Is that considered a treat or hay?

Thanks again for all the advice!

 

[Imbrium]

the hay cubes are considered a treat moreso than hay, because they don't provide the same benefits (as far as wearing teeth down) that hay does.

at 10 weeks old, I would limit him to around 1/2c pellets twice a day even though they can supposedly have unlimited pellets, that way he eats more hay. after he hits 12 weeks and you've gotten a fair amount of veggies introduced, cut back to 1/4-3/8c pellets twice a day + 1-2c packed leafy greens per day.

the poops... well, that's just something you learn to live with for a while, heh. keeping the hay in the litter box or in a hay feeder hung over the box so that he has to sit in the box to eat it helps a fair amount, as they like to eat and poop at the same time. at this age, though, the best you can hope for is getting the pee in the box and maybe 50-70% of the poops (a shop vac is your friend!). once he's old enough to be neutered, that often greatly improves litter box habits... though there will always still be some strays, as rabbits produce like 500 poops a day - you just can't expect them to get them ALL in the box. mine have been getting 90% or so of their poops and 100% of their pee in the box now that they're spayed, which is pretty normal for fixed rabbits.

 

[Nancy McClelland]

We are happy that they all urinate in their box/pan. The poops are probably why someone invented the shop vac. We have only had 2 out of 37 that left all in their box/hutch. One thing I would do--for the first six months I'd feed alfalfa hay as it's higher in calcium and protein than then switch over to regular hay once the little one is done growing.

 

[ldoerr]

I agree with getting a shop vac. It is your best friend when it comes to rabbits. I got the 2.5g size from home depot for under $30. Also a good wisk (sp?) broom is nice for in between vacuuming. Rabbits will not be perfect with their litter box habbits ESPECIALLY when they are babies or in a new area.