How hard is "don't touch" ?

[zombiesue]

:soapbox

Okay I don't actually have children, so maybe this is one of those things that I will understand better ~SOME DAY~ but it's the holidays right now and I work retail so I'm really annoyed and stressed out.

Last week, these people had five boys, all under kindergarten age, in an aisle full of nothing but glass ornaments. And did they pay any attention to them? No. I don't blame the kids. It's not their fault. It's their idiot parents'. Why they would even WANT to take 5 kids with them is beyond me, but why they would just kind of hang out with them in the most fragile area of the store is REALLY STRANGE. They broke two ornaments and then played with the broken glass, and I stepped in to tell them to stop. The really little one--maybe 3, was kind of fingering the broken edge. like. HELLO.

And they pick things up and ask if they can buy it, mom says "no put it back". You think your 4 year old remembers where he got it? No, he's going to just drop it somewhere for me to pick up. Unless you're going to put back everything they pick up yourself, teach them not to pick everything up. Is it really that hard?

It applies to rabbit communities all the time. "my little brother/sister/son/daughter let my rabbit outside, put two rabbits together, let the cat get at my rabbit" etc. This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, I've just seen it 10000000000000 times and I'm getting REALLY JADED HERE.

I feel a little bit better. :twitch:

 

[Nancy McClelland]

When I was that age, several decades ago, I wouldn't have been able to sit in comfort if I acted that way when my parents were out with us. The problem is that these parents were raised by totally indifferent parents and their actions had no consequences so they are just following the example they know. Why I never buy anything out of bulk bins at the store and do my shopping early in the morning.

 

[zombiesue]

My parents weren't big on spanking. A few times, sure, but I don't remember it as a big deterring factor like some people do.

I noticed one thing--like, in the checkout line, a parent will say "come here" and the kid won't do it, they will continue to do their own thing. And then I guess the parents decide it's not a big deal right now and let them continue to do their own thing, some repeat it a few times before they get to that point.

Like, don't you realize you're teaching your child that your orders don't necessarily NEED to be followed? If you tell your child to come to you, and they don't, GO GET THEM. Don't make just ignoring you an option. It just confounds me.

Do these people think they're doing their children favors by letting them play with broken glass? And what about predators? If you were looking for a child to snatch, don't you think you'd be looking for the family with 5 + young children running around in different aisles ignoring their parents?

it just kills me. I'm not usually this grouchy but staying more than 3 hours past closing time has MADE ME THAT WAY.

 

[PaGal]

I have issues with people that do not try raising their children to be obedient. I love kids and I do know kids will be kids. At the same time that is not an excuse to let them get away with murder.

IMO too many parents are just too lazy too put in the effort or too busy for the other things in their lives. It takes work to raise children that know how to behave. You have to set rules and consequences for when the rules are broken. You then have to actually pay attention to your children and follow through with a consequence each and every time a rule is broken. Of course, add into that parents raising children who were not raised to behave themselves.

Plus we have gotten away from people being responsible for their actions. Too often there is an excuse made instead of enforcing good behavior.

I still to this day am uncomfortable in a store surrounded by delicate items because I can still remember my mother grilling it into us as children to be very careful and not to touch whenever we were near such items.

 

[Imbrium]

*Sigh* if you have two parents and five kids, for god's sake leave one parent and ALL the kids at home when you go shopping unless you're actually capable of keeping them under control. Not only the employees but also the other customers will be grateful!

Also, when I was a kid, people didn't haul all their little kids around to Walmart at 1 in the morning. I had a bedtime. What ever happened to bedtimes?? Of COURSE your child/children are cranky and screaming and obnoxious - it's one in the freaking morning and they should've been in bed HOURS ago! I get cranky if I'm overtired, too. When I go to Walmart in the middle of the night, I expect to not have to dodge a bunch of unruly children or listen to constant crying/screaming. If I wanted that, I'd go on a Sunday afternoon.

My parents raised me to understand that actions have consequences and that if they told me to do something, there WOULD be repercussions for ignoring them. If I threw a tantrum in the store, I got hauled outside and scolded (or if I was really being obstenant, spanked). Emphasis on outside - my parents understood that if they couldn't immediately stop me from screaming my head off, it was better for me to scream in a parking lot than to piss off a store full of innocent bystanders trying to shop in peace. As a last resort (I think it only came down to this once, though), one parent would sit in the car with me while the other shopped rather than bring an obnoxious child back into the store and inflict them on other people.

I was not allowed to tear down aisles, running my *ss off and being an obstacle to others, possibly screaming/shouting as I did so. I was not allowed to pick up and screw around with any shiny object that caught my eye (if I couldn't keep my hands to myself, I had to stay in the cart).

In my day, kids that couldn't be controlled by other means got put on leashes. What ever happened to kiddie leashes?? They don't just help control your own kids, they help control everyone's kids - any kid who's never been put on a leash, upon seeing another child on one, will instantly wonder just how bad that kid's been that they have to be on a leash and will instinctively register that leashes are an option for parents (so they'd better watch how they behave if they don't ever want to be that kid on a leash and harness). I know, because I've been that kid who'd never been put on a leash and that's EXACTLY what went through my mind on the rare occasion I saw a leashed heathen.

I haven't seen a kid on a leash in almost 20 years, I don't think... and over time, I've noticed an increasing number of children running amok in retail stores. I feel there's a direct correlation.

Also, NOBODY likes constantly tripping over a 2-woman hen party being orbited by a 4-5 kid tornado. If you go shopping with a friend and you've both got children, then either get a babysitter for all the kids or learn how to keep them under control instead of just tuning them out so that they don't interrupt you. They may not interrupt you, but they sure as hell interrupt me when I'm encountering this obnoxious hen-party-with-kids satellite that seems to be making freaking circles around the produce department while I'm trying to buy fruits and veggies for my sugar gliders (I swear, every time I thought they were finally gone, there they were again!).

 

[Imbrium]

Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure there's been times when I saw a parent reign in a child that was threatening to get out of control quickly and quietly with such skill that I actually stopped to pay them a complement or, if that seemed too forward (as it often does), gave them a look/smile that clearly said I was impressed and appreciative (and also showed understanding about how trying it must be to be a good parent sometimes). Parents, even the good ones, aren't used to getting that look - they're used to getting glares, if anything. Those good parents seem to really appreciate it when someone actually acknowledges how hard they're working to stop their kid(s) from ruining other peoples' shopping experience. I love parents who know how to discipline appropriately in public! I miss the days when that was the norm instead of the exception

On a side note, the only thing that rivals uncontrolled kids in its ability to ruin my shopping experience is constant, annoying Christmas music. I don't even want to do basic grocery shopping between Thanksgiving and Christmas! I feel SO bad for the employees at stores that play that crap - I only have to endure it for 15 minutes to an hour at a stretch, but they have to listen to it for 20-40+ hours a week. I actually had a guy at the grocery store right before closing time last week who was in such a hurry to GTFO that he was ringing up half my produce wrong with NO desire to correct his errors as long as what he rang it up for wasn't more than the real price - saved me a few bucks! I tried to point something out the first couple times, but he informed me that he really didn't care as long as he wasn't over-charging me, he just wanted to be gone, lol. I nodded and commented that if I had to listen to Christmas music all day at work, I'd want to get the hell out of there, too!

 

[PaGal]

That is one of the biggest problems today. Parenting takes effort. The girls have a bed time of 8:30pm. This ensures that they get the amount of sleep needed for a child their age and based on when they have to be up for school. It is not easy to have this bedtime. The twins get home between 4:15 and 4:30 so that is only four hours to get homework done, dinner, a shower and they have some time to relax before and after their shower. But we do it because they do need that rest.

The girls are disciplined when they misbehave whether by spanking, time out or taking something away from them. They also have to be able to tell us why they are in trouble because too often kids aren't even sure. It's hard at times for us as parents to say no or to punish them but in the end it is for their own good and kids really do want to have limits placed on them. They like knowing what to expect and what is expected of them. But again disciplining takes effort and too many just don't want to put in the effort. If you ground your kid for a week then it needs to be a week. If you say stop that or this will happen then when they do not stop you must follow through with the consequence.

Kids can still have fun and play without being out of control. As the child grows and learns then you can also allow them to do more as they show they know how to behave and to do the right thing.

The last time any of them try to throw a tantrum was five or six years ago and stopped immediately by simply asking the child if she was allowed to behave that way.

I can remember a time going to the mall with my kids, now ex, my sister and her son. We walked into the mall and my daughter started to throw a fit. I picked her up and walked straight out to the car with everyone following behind and we drove back home.

And yes, I tell kids if you are not going to buy it then do not touch it.

 

[zombiesue]

Oh my god, that reminds me, the other day there was this lady who had a baby--almost toddler, not quite, and this baby was just SHRIEKING as soon as she got into the store. She just screamed and screamed. I think 20 minutes had gone by before the baby stopped crying.

Like, okay, it's one thing if you're 3/4s of the way done grocery shopping, but I work at HOBBY LOBBY, you don't actually *need* any of those things and she just walked in. Sometimes you have to admit that YOU LOST.

 

[Imbrium]

PaGal - THANK YOU! Thank you for being a good parent who puts in the time and effort to discipline appropriately and effectively. You sound much like my parents - firm (and tough if needed), but always fair... and my parents, too, ensured that I always understood what I was in trouble for. Your girls and everyone they encounter are better off for it, and if they decide to become parents some day, they'll be better parents because of the good example they grew up with.

Babies aren't born knowing how to be tolerable members of society and have to be taught gradually as they grow into kids, then teens, then adults. Choosing to bring a child into this world is a commitment to do everything in your power to raise them properly - parenting is NOT for the lazy or weak-willed. It's the toughest job in the world to truly do well and doesn't exactly come with a guidebook or instruction manual.

Quite frankly, I think too many people arbitrarily spawn offspring without actually thinking it through first and really considering the lifetime commitment they're making. I also suspect there are people who aren't really cut out to be parents but have those kids anyway because they feel they're expected to or because "it's just what you do" [when you become an adult and choose a life-partner] (which are horrible reasons to reproduce). I can say from experience that being "childless by choice" can be a bit awkward, and I assume it's especially so if you're having to explain to your own parent(s) that they're never getting that grandbaby (being let off the hook for that type of conversation is one of the few perks of being an "orphan" of sorts, heh)... but I think it's stupid to have kids because other people want or expect you to. If you have them, do so because YOU want them and because YOU are prepared to make that commitment.

 

[whitelop]

My kid stays in the shopping cart and doesn't touch anything. I tell not to touch and he doesn't touch it. If I had it to him to hold, he holds it. But the only time we let him out of the shopping cart is to look at toys, so he can touch them and for us to see if hes going to like it.
I also will leave immediately if he is acting bad in a store. I did it a few weeks ago, as a matter of fact. He started to cry and scream in the store, I left the cart in the middle of the store and walked out and we went home and I went grocery shopping later after my husband came home.

I do not tolerate nonsense. I also don't negotiate with my child, because he's 2 and you can not reason with a 2 year old. If he messes around at home and won't leave a cat alone, or throws something after I say no, he goes to time out.

Its hard to judge other parents, as lazy or whatever. I try really hard to not do that, unless I see the actual neglect. But sometimes its just because you're tired. A lot of people work and then have to deal with their amped up kids who just got home from daycare and they're over stimulated and over tired. The parents are tired too, and when everyone is tired, you're bound to make mistakes and not see things.
I say that and then I see parents who just let their kids run wild because they don't care or whatever. They don't have to put the things back in the store, so what does it matter, right? Some people are just rude and they raise rude children who turn into rude adults and the cycle continues.

Jennifer, I see kids on leashes. We call those kids "runners". Sometimes, if you kid is a runner, you need a leash. I think a lot of people frown upon it, but I think its a safety thing. You're kid won't get snatched on a leash and your kid won't get hit by a car on a leash either. I approve of leashes and if my child ever decided that he was to become a runner, he would be on a leash. BUT I don't let him walk through the parking lots, because where I live the people fly through the parking lots and I'm terrified of him getting hit while he's holding my hand.

About the kids touching Christmas ornaments and things in the stores. Kids will be kids. Whether you tell them not to touch things or not, if you turn your back for a second, chances are little fingers will be touching the things. They like things that are shiny or fun looking. They like to touch things, it helps them learn what they are. You just have to be vigilant when your kids are touching stuff and take the glass things away.
My son just broke one of my glass ornaments. I was in the kitchen washing dishes, and I heard him clicking the ornaments together. I came in and told him to put them back on the tree, he got mad that I told him to put them back and threw them both on the floor. One shattered into a bunch of pieces and he spent the rest of the day in his room for throwing something in a fit of anger. I also moved the Christmas tree out of reach and he no longer messes with ANY Christmas trees. BAM, problem solved.
But he can't help that he likes the ornaments, they're shiny and glittery and he loves Christmas.

I will also say that people with no kids think their the best parents. And a lot of times people with no kids like to throw judgement out there on why the parent is doing this and not doing that or why the kid is acting like that. And thats not fair. Every persons life is different, every persons tolerance for nonsense is different and all children are different. So its easy for a person with no child to say, "well, if I were his mom/dad, I would do this and this and this". But until you ARE the parent, you don't know what you'll do. Sometimes you think before you have kids, that you're for or against something and then the time comes and you realize that your original opinion was wrong.

Cast stones at the parents if you must, but its Christmas time. Remember, if a few ornaments get broken it is not the end of the world. Worse things have happened and will happen, so take that broken ornament and sweep it, tell the kids to be more care and not to touch the glass stuff, point then in the direction of the plastic ornaments or the toys, and move on.

 

[zombiesue]

I don't care how many ornaments your kids break at your house, lol.

If you let your 2 year old out of the cart to play with glass ornaments at a store, you're freaking dumb. End of story. I don't care how tired you are. I'm tired too, and I didn't have the little monsters. Don't make the world pick up after you.

 

[zombiesue]

Pretty much, if 100 families come in with the attitude that "oh a broken ornament isn't a big deal" then I have to stay 3 - 4 hours past close, when I'd rather be with my own family.

 

[whitelop]

Wow, I bet your a real joy to be around.

 

[Nancy McClelland]

Don't care if I'm a joy to be around or not, but my kids never acted that way--they knew there were consequences and that they came immediately and with no negotiating. Six years ago we stopped in a really expensive restaurant in Hanford on our way to Vegas. There was one family in there with 3 small kids running around and making general havoc as well as being loud and obnoxious--with their parents sitting right there. They were running into people, spilling stuff all over and even caused a waitress to drop a tray of food. When we got our bill I asked for the manager. I told him in a very loud voice that our experience there was not worth mentioning and since they chose not to reign in the kids or evict the whole tribe of "reprobates" that I was refusing to pay my bill. I made sure I was loud enough for the so called parents and everyone else in that section could hear me. I got a standing ovation from most in the restaurant and the applause was deafening. Why should we have to dodge continually or put up with someone else's brood's lack of proper behavior? You brought them into this world, so, you should make sure they are well behaved rather than wild--it's your job, not the rest of the world. My other peeve is cell phone usage. People still are in their car and talking or texting--it's illegal and your response time is worse than legally drunk, even with a bluetooth in your ear. That's just dangerous. Then there is rude--going in, thru, and out of the grocery store with a cell phone glued to your ear--what's so important? Another restaurant that we never went back to--2 children running around constantly and two guys next table from us constantly on their phones--better ambiance at home with a microwave meal and setting in front of the TV. I guess I'm getting old, but I get very tired of how rude and ill mannered some people are. Well, time to go outside and tell the kids to "get of my lawn!"

 

[Watermelons]

Well said Larry

On that note. Topic closed before this gets out of hand.