help please!

[squidpop]

Gosh. I'm so sorry for you and your rabbit that you are having such bad luck with your vets. I agree with Majorv, I can't believe the vet didn't just look up rabbit syphilis if he had never heard of it. He's not even trying.

I found an old post about someone who had a rabbit that had syphilis, thought you might like to read it. They said their vet prescribed Convenia, which is a single shot that lasts 7-10 days and seems much easier than penicillin (she had 9 rabbits). But she doesn't say at the end of the post if it worked or not.
http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?127294-Rabbit-Warts-UD-off-to-the-vets-now/page4

I think vets that don't know much about rabbits just prescribe Baytril because its used on cats and dogs, they have lots of it, and it was the first (maybe only) antibiotic licenced for use in rabbits so its just a no brainer easy thing for them to prescribe without having to look anything up.

 

[iLuvMyLilBuns]

Gosh. I'm so sorry for you and your rabbit that you are having such bad luck with your vets. I agree with Majorv, I can't believe the vet didn't just look up rabbit syphilis if he had never heard of it. He's not even trying.



I found an old post about someone who had a rabbit that had syphilis, thought you might like to read it. They said their vet prescribed Convenia, which is a single shot that lasts 7-10 days and seems much easier than penicillin (she had 9 rabbits). But she doesn't say at the end of the post if it worked or not.

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?127294-Rabbit-Warts-UD-off-to-the-vets-now/page4



I think vets that don't know much about rabbits just prescribe Baytril because its used on cats and dogs, they have lots of it, and it was the first (maybe only) antibiotic licenced for use in rabbits so its just a no brainer easy thing for them to prescribe without having to look anything up.

That's good to know, thanks Should I give him Baytril until I bring him to the vet?(the one that's more rabbit savvy)

I've heard that it helps to put Neosporin on the scabs is that true? I'm calling tomorrow and setting up an appointment but she's really busy so I'm sure it will be next week.

 

[JBun]

Baytril will not treat rabbit syphilis, but if it's some other type of skin infection the baytril may help. Syphilis has to be treated with pen g injections only. Penicillin should NEVER be given orally as it can cause fatal dysbiosis. It's hard to tell what the scabs are, but rabbit syphilis can be a cause of lesions around a rabbits mouth, eyes, nose, and genitals. To me, that does look like syphilis.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Bacterial/Syph_gen.html

Your vet doesn't sound very knowledgeable. Hopefully your other vet is. When you book an appt. with them, you may want to check first that they know how to treat rabbit syphilis before you bother bringing your bun in. You can also take a look at these vet lists to see if there is a good rabbit vet near you.
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f28/finding-vet-13366/
http://rabbit.org/vet-listings/

If it's syphilis, Neosporin won't do any good, and you have to be careful about not applying too much as some will get ingested. Also only the non pain reliever kind should be used on rabbits.

 

[iLuvMyLilBuns]

How do you pronounce syphilis? Sorry if that's a dumb question but I want to ask my vet if she knows what it is, I'm pretty sure she does.

All the vets on that list are over 2 hours from me, the vet I go to right now is over an hour from me. (I'm in Minnesota)

 

[JBun]

Sif - uh - lis. The technical term is Treponematosis(trep-uh-nee-muh-toh-sis).

Any decent rabbit vet should be able to identify this. If needed a vet should be able to take a sample and positively identify the spirochete under the microscope. I can't believe you have already had two vets not know how to identify this for what it is.

Basically when you call, ask if the vet knows how to treat rabbit syphilis, and if the vet uses penicillin to do it. If they tell you that you have to bring your bun in first, tell them that your bun has already been seen twice for this and given the wrong treatment, and that you want to be certain your bun is going to get the correct treatment before you make an appt. to bring your bun in again.

Your bun will need pen g injections every 5-7 days, for 4-6 weeks. If you're comfortable giving injections, your vet can show you how to do the rest of the injections at home. Just be aware that pen g is pretty thick and can be difficult to inject. So make sure your vet shows you all the tricks on how to best inject it.

Also if this bun has had any contact with your other rabbits, they need to be treated as well.

ETA: It is possible this isn't syphilis, but everything seems to point to it being this. And if it's not, I don't know what else it could be, but the vet should be able to take a skin scraping if needed, to identify the problem.

 

[iLuvMyLilBuns]

Sif - uh - lis. The technical term is Treponematosis(trep-uh-nee-muh-toh-sis).

Any decent rabbit vet should be able to identify this. If needed a vet should be able to take a sample and positively identify the spirochete under the microscope. I can't believe you have already had two vets not know how to identify this for what it is.

Basically when you call, ask if the vet knows how to treat rabbit syphilis, and if the vet uses penicillin to do it. If they tell you that you have to bring your bun in first, tell them that your bun has already been seen twice for this and given the wrong treatment, and that you want to be certain your bun is going to get the correct treatment before you make an appt. to bring your bun in again.

Your bun will need pen g injections every 5-7 days, for 4-6 weeks. If you're comfortable giving injections, your vet can show you how to do the rest of the injections at home. Just be aware that pen g is pretty thick and can be difficult to inject. So make sure your vet shows you all the tricks on how to best inject it.

Also if this bun has had any contact with your other rabbits, they need to be treated as well.

ETA: It is possible this isn't syphilis, but everything seems to point to it being this. And if it's not, I don't know what else it could be, but the vet should be able to take a skin scraping if needed, to identify the problem.

thank you! my vet called me today and she said she said he probably does have it and that in a healthy rabbit it just runs it's course and so he shouldn't need treatment. she said unless I notice more scabs, that it doesn't need to be treated. is this true? I guess I should trust her but she said she does have penicillin so we can treat him. I'm just worried that it could pass to my other buns but she said it can only pass by direct contact like breeding. the scabs have been on him a while and they don't seem to be getting better. I also show him so I'm hoping all the scabs clear up.

 

[majorv]

If it were me, I'd take him in, just for confirmation, and then ask for the penicillin treatment.

 

[iLuvMyLilBuns]

If it were me, I'd take him in, just for confirmation, and then ask for the penicillin treatment.

okay I will. I have playpens that my rabbits each take turns in. Can I put him in the playpen? He won't be with another rabbit but my other rabbits would go in it after him. I'm not sure how contagious this is and my vet said it's only passed by direct rabbit to rabbit contact.

 

[squidpop]

Sorry to be negative but I don't trust your vet. Syphilis really does need to be treated and he needs to use the right penicillin at the right dosage. To make sure he give you the right medicine you could print out this medirabbit page on rabbit syphilis and take it to the vet with you. It says exactly what penicillin to use and exactly what the dose is.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Bacterial/Syph_gen.html


Treatment Rabbit syphilis (Medirabbit site)

Administration of the narrow spectrum antibiotic penicillin G (benzathine/procaine: 42.000 - 84.000 UI/kg, SC, IM), 4-6 repeats at intervals of 5 to 7 days, is the treatment of choice against rabbit syphilis. (Rabbits should NEVER be administered penicillin orally; it can lead to severe diarrhea).
Most other antibiotics will not cure the infection. Mostly, healing of the skin lesions is observed during the treatment, but relapse will occur as soon as the treatment is stopped as the Treponema cuniculi bacterium is not killed. This is particularly the case of fluoroquinolone antibiotics. Clinical signs and skin lesions develop rapidly after the treatment is stopped, often in a more severe form than before.
If the rabbit is in pain, analgesics can be administrated (e.g. meloxicam).
It is imperative to monitor the rabbit's eating during the treatment. Indeed, dying bacteria release toxins inside the rabbit's body and blood circulation and appetite may be affected. Inappetence can last 2-3 days, but the rabbit usually begins eating again on its own. It is essential that the antibiotic is not stopped to avoid onset of bacterial resistance. The rabbit should be encouraged to eat by its own and drink. If this is not the case, force feeding food with a syringe and subcutaneous fluid administration is necessary.

 

[iLuvMyLilBuns]

Thanks for the info. I'm taking him to the vet tomorrow and I'll tell her I want to treat it.

 

[iLuvMyLilBuns]

The vet gave him an injection of penicillin today and he needs 2 more once a week so I have to come back next week and the week after. hopefully this works

 

[majorv]

Make sure you have probiotics on hand to give him.

 

[iLuvMyLilBuns]

Make sure you have probiotics on hand to give him.

what do you mean?

 

[majorv]

Antibiotics can be hard on their digestive system and can kill the good bacteria. Giving him probiotics, like Benebac or Probios, will help keep the bacteria in the gut in balance and lessen the chance of diahrrea. You can get Benebac at a pet store, and feed stores usually carry Probios in a syringe. Also push the hay.

 

[squidpop]

I like benebac, I just keep a stockpile of it that I ordered from Ebay just incase. It looks like this: http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mRjt_2sPHhE8JdGZGr082Dg.jpg