HELP ORPHAN RABBIT BABIES AND ******** MOTHER.

[kalaya.r]

SO , I have two female rabbits names are ( FLASH and MORPHE). I need some advice. So as of April 14th, Flash gave birth to 4 rabbits. and Morphe gave birth the same day to two. Notice flash wasn't feeding rabbits and I woke up today and saw that two died. THENNN... last night Morphe was acting weird, she kept picking up hay and she seemed to be making a nest. I didn't think she would have more babies. BUT AS OF APRIL 16th she had three babies and they were inside the nest. and one baby got out the nest idk if she kicked it out... or it crawled out so I decided to foster the one who got out and the other 2 from FLASH litter.
Both of the sisters FLASH AND MORPHE have been running around in the cage stepping on them.
SHOULD I JUST FOSTER ALL OF THEM? I have the kitten replacer. I need help I'm very nervous they all might die.

 

[kalaya.r]

Scared the two in the nest will die because Morphe is stupid.

 

[Augustus&HazelGrace]

What breed are they?

 

[Preitler]

That is a little confusing to me. Are the does in the same cage? Why are the kits trampeled on when the does run around? They should be in a nest box in a corner, you can take this out and just put it back at feeding times (morning/evening) when there are problems like the doe using the nest as litter box.

Kits get out of the nest sometimes, either born outside or dragged out on the teat, just put it back to its siblings. The doe does not move the kits on purpose, they care for the nest, not the individual kits.


How do you know that she isn't feeding them, it can take up to 48h until the milk drops (usually they feed within 24h). What they need most is peace, rest and food. The only thing to do at this time is check if the kits are in the nest and covered with fur, and check the nest for dead kits.


What do you mean with foster, normally this means putting kits to another doe. Can be done in emergencys.

 

[kalaya.r]

dwarf and rex mix

 

[kalaya.r]

That is a little confusing to me. Are the does in the same cage? Why are the kits trampeled on when the does run around? They should be in a nest box in a corner, you can take this out and just put it back at feeding times (morning/evening) when there are problems like the doe using the nest as litter box.

Kits get out of the nest sometimes, either born outside or dragged out on the teat, just put it back to its siblings. The doe does not move the kits, they care for the nest, not the individual kits.


How do you know that she isn't feeding them, it can take up to 48h until the milk drops (usually they feed within 24h). What they need most is peace, rest and food. The only thing to do at this time is check if the kits are in the nest and covered with fur, and check the nest for dead kits.


What do you mean with foster, normally this means putting kits to another doe.

That is a little confusing to me. Are the does in the same cage? Why are the kits trampeled on when the does run around? They should be in a nest box in a corner, you can take this out and just put it back at feeding times (morning/evening) when there are problems like the doe using the nest as litter box.

Kits get out of the nest sometimes, either born outside or dragged out on the teat, just put it back to its siblings. The doe does not move the kits, they care for the nest, not the individual kits.


How do you know that she isn't feeding them, it can take up to 48h until the milk drops (usually they feed within 24h). What they need most is peace, rest and food. The only thing to do at this time is check if the kits are in the nest and covered with fur, and check the nest for dead kits.


What do you mean with foster, normally this means putting kits to another doe.

Both Sisters are in the cage together. I know the one rabbit isnt feeding them because this morning I found two baby rabbits dead. and They both were kind of skinny. This is my first time with kits. I didnt know both females were able to get pregnant because its been like three months since the male rabbit was with them. Flash my rabbit went to the nest but it seemed like she was playing around in there.

I mean by fostering I mean me actually taking care of them and feeding them kitten replacer.

 

[Preitler]

Doesn't add up, the buck somehow was with them about a month ago. In the many cases of "miracle litters" or "breeding through the wire" children had unsupervised access to the rabbits, or the buck climbed over the fence - they can't jump 3 feet high, but they can climb much higher when there is something they can clamber on.

Anyway, two does need quite a lot of space, I keep my breeding does in pairs, and each rabbit has her own big hutch, 2 and two connected with tunnels so they can meet when they feel like it, but I think it's important that they can get away from each other - one of my does defends the nest, there would be trouble if the other doe couldn't get way out of sight.
How do you know which kits belong to which doe?

Them running around, that shouldn't be, sounds they are quite stressed. Many does will not feed when watched, and I'm not sure if a second doe too close can be a problem in that regard. Most times I seperate the hutches around the time one doe gives birth, to give her privacy, rest and unlimited food.

Handraising from zero has not such a great success rate, I never tried kitten replacer, rabbit milk is something very different to cats milk - I used condensed goat milk (picked up a few cans at Wallmart when I was in the US) with egg yolk, but for kits that weren't nursed before some added colostrum improves the chances.

First time litters have a rather high failure rate, even if everthing else is ok, can't be helped.

 

[Augustus&HazelGrace]

If it's been three months since they were with a male, then either a male got in with them or one of your "sisters" is actually a "brother". Rabbits are only pregnant for 31 days. Can we see a picture of the set up of where the babies are at? Also, can we see pictures of the babies?

 

[Anna R.]

Please don't call your rabbits "********". That is so harsh.

They are first time moms and probably doing the best they can. If everyone (Mom's and kits) are all in one pen sounds like they are confused. They should have been separated before they gave birth. They need privacy with their kits. I'm not sure you nursing them is a great idea.

 

[Crazybunnylady27]

Giving birth to more babies days after the first litter sounds as though they have had more than one encounter with a male. Have you sexed your rabbits yourself to ensure they are the genders you were told? I would try to work out which kits belong to who and put them in two separate enclosures. A nest box with hay and fur is essential for each litter.

I would do all of this before considering any type of milk replacement as - mentioned above - it is unlikely to be successful.

 

[TreasuredFriend]

It is sad when a novice individual refers to mothers as ******** or stupid. I hope you will be educated from input on this thread. Stress (in the environment, your body language and behavior), and health of the moms factors into vulnerable little lives (the babies) survival.

Have your mature rabbits been properly gendered by a DVM?

 

[TreasuredFriend]

Will follow for pictures of your set-up. Have you spoken with a knowledgeable rabbit-savvy DVM for care of mother buns and their babies?

 

[TreasuredFriend]

When rabbits gave birth at the shelter, the mothers and babies transitioned to private (quiet) foster homes (as we fostered several mothers and their babies). Mother's colostrum or nursing gland nutrients are vital for survival.

The abandoned mother who was captured as a stray bun and surrendered to shelter and started giving birth at the shelter came to our quiet home; Dear mother bun (she was not stupid or ********) later delivered one to two more babies; stillborn. Mother bun had coccidiosis however this isn't the same as the healthy 2 rabbits you describe being kept in the same small? cage.

What ages are new moms Morphe and Flash? Totally agree that they need peace, rest, and food as Preitler from Austria noted.

Q: Do you know that males can impregnate females ? -- soon as their balls drop?

Are you able to speak to a rabbit-savvy DVM asap?

 

[Anna R.]

I agree with "Treasured Friend" and hopefully for the sake of the kits and your rabbits well being you have sought out a Rabbit savvy DVM. It is shame for them to suffer because of your ignorance.
Their well-being should be your top priority.

 

[Ruby99]

I agree with "Treasured Friend" and hopefully for the sake of the kits and your rabbits well being you have sought out a Rabbit savvy DVM. It is shame for them to suffer because of your ignorance.
Their well-being should be your top priority.

 

[Ruby99]

It is sad when a novice individual refers to mothers as ******** or stupid. I hope you will be educated from input on this thread. Stress (in the environment, your body language and behavior), and health of the moms factors into vulnerable little lives (the babies) survival.

Have your mature rabbits been properly gendered by a DVM?

 

[Imbrium]

That is a little confusing to me. Are the does in the same cage? Why are the kits trampeled on when the does run around? They should be in a nest box in a corner, you can take this out and just put it back at feeding times (morning/evening) when there are problems like the doe using the nest as litter box.

Kits get out of the nest sometimes, either born outside or dragged out on the teat, just put it back to its siblings. The doe does not move the kits on purpose, they care for the nest, not the individual kits.

Handraising from zero has not such a great success rate, I never tried kitten replacer, rabbit milk is something very different to cats milk - I used condensed goat milk (picked up a few cans at Wallmart when I was in the US) with egg yolk, but for kits that weren't nursed before some added colostrum improves the chances.

First time litters have a rather high failure rate, even if everthing else is ok, can't be helped.

^ I second everything Preitler said.

Fostering is typically used to mean getting one doe to care for another doe's kit(s). It has a high success rate and can save lives. Hand-raising kits (ie KMR or goat's milk or something from a bottle) has a VERY low success rate and should be an absolute last resort. Rabbit milk is super rich and almost impossible to replicate, not to mention the antibodies/immune system benefits kits get from their mom's milk and the cecals she feeds them.

Are you using a proper nest box (one with a raised front lip to reduce the chance of a kit being drug out)? Unlike many other animals, rabbits can not move their kits by choice, so if one gets drug out of the nest by accident, there's nothing the mom can do to put them back and once out of the nest, the kit will be ignored/neglected. In the wild, a kit that strays from the nest would be a goner anyway due to either predation or the elements, so there's no instinct to try to feed a stray kit. Rabbits, unlike humans, lack empathy. It's survival of the fittest in the animal world. What may seem like "being stupid" to us is really just practical and realistic from a rabbit's point of view.

Bottom line: if you want them to be successful mothers, it's your job to make sure they have an appropriate nest box and to put any kits back in it who are born or drug out. I would also give them separate space when they're about to give birth and keep their environment very low-stress, as others have been saying.

 

[Augustus&HazelGrace]

I beg to differ on the empathy part. Not all rabbits, but this one that I have I see her often just laying with her babies and she even had one that had gotten out of the nest box and she nudged back to the nest box. I was out there when it happened and I saw the whole thing and I went over and put it back into the nestbox. She also will just lay her head in with the babies. I have also seen that if she is about to feed them and some of them are out she will nudge them to go back into the nestbox get fed. Note: in this picture, she had a cardboard nestbox because I only had 2 at the time and I had an unexpected litter from someone who gave me their rabbit, and I had a doe who had a week old litter.

 

[Imbrium]

Well, there are always exceptions. In the animal world, some moms just do what needs to be done and others really dote on their little ones (same is true of humans, I suppose). That doe of yours sounds like a really awesome mom! I suppose perhaps I phrased it wrong about lacking empathy... but nature (and by extension, animals) can seem cold or cruel at times if judged by human standards. I was just looking for a way to explain that it's a matter of perspective and it's not fair to try to hold rabbits to human empathy standards.

 

[Crazybunnylady27]

I beg to differ on the empathy part. Not all rabbits, but this one that I have I see her often just laying with her babies and she even had one that had gotten out of the nest box and she nudged back to the nest box. I was out there when it happened and I saw the whole thing and I went over and put it back into the nestbox. She also will just lay her head in with the babies. I have also seen that if she is about to feed them and some of them are out she will nudge them to go back into the nestbox get fed. Note: in this picture, she had a cardboard nestbox because I only had 2 at the time and I had an unexpected litter from someone who gave me their rabbit, and I had a doe who had a week old litter.View attachment 40479

Completely agree on the empathy part. I have seen does absolutely dote on their babies. My current nursing doe is one and my rabbit as a child took my dad to the runt of her litter, who was dieing, by nipping his hand and nudging was the other. She was the rabbit who made me fall in love with rabbits forever x