Help! Bunny fight?

[Prizm]

When I came home today and greeted the furry inhabitants of the living room, I noticed that one of my rabbits (an unspade female named Narnia) had a patch of fur missing between her shoulder blades, and a dried bloody mass there, as if she'd either been bitten, or bit herself. Her bottom was also wet. Then I checked Dusty, her neutered male cagemate, and he also had a bite mark between his shoulders and his rear was also a bit damp, though not as bad. I also have a third female bunny, named Kundalini, who lives in a separate cage and might or might not be intact (I adopted her without meeting her original owners), and she is symptom free.

I have never known Dusty and Narnia to fight eachother, but I separated them moments ago just in case, and I am going to clean their cages just to make sure the wettness isn't due to their litter box being too full.

I also moved Kudalini's cage far away from the pair in case they have a contageous illness, but I can't help but wonder if their symptoms are due to the fact that I have recently been keeping Kundalini's cage very close to theirs. I hoped they might smell eachother and become friends...Maybe they viewed it as a territorial invasion and injured themselves? Or does this sound like a rabbit disease?

I would appreciate your input!
Thanks

 

[Pipp]

Do you have Betadine on hand? You can treat the wounds with that. And carefully check for other bites, although they may not be apparent until they scab over.

Could she/they have reached and bitten themselves between the shoulder blades? Can't see that happening.

Are there tufts of fur in the cage? Most bunny fights have a lot of fur pulling, unless it was just one quick bout of temper. Has one bunny been mounting the other?

A third bunny coming on the scene will cause the other two to fight -- a misplaced aggression thing.

The dampness is probably from the fight, that will happen as well.

How big is their cage? Two bunnies with enough room to avoid each other -- multiple levels, boxes with two entrances, tunnels, etc -- is best.

Hope it sorts itself out. I wouldn't separate the fighters for too long, but I would keep the third bunny well away from them.


sas :bunnydance:

 

[DazyDaizee]

Sounds like they had a scuffle, probably due to the third rabbit. How long has the pair been together and when was the new bunny introduced? I would consider spaying the females before thinking about bonding the three of them.
In my experience, females are more territorial than males. I have never owned an intact adult rabbit, but my spayed females have always been more territorial and likely to fight with other rabbits. In my research, I've found this to be true as well. So I imagine that an intact female rabbit is far more territorial than a neutered male. I would have Narnia spayed ASAP, not only for behavioral reasons, but for health.
I would also try to get in touch with the third rabbits previous owner. It can be difficult to tell if she's been spayed if there is no obvious spay scar that the vet can see. If she is not spayed, she should be. Again for health as well as behavioral reasons.
I would keep the pair together separate from the third rabbit, as suggested. Watch them as best you can and keep an ear out for scuffles.

 

[Prizm]

You guys are great--thank you so much! So, you think it is safe to put Dusty and Narnia back together tonight?

I'll get the females spayed, but as far as contacting Kundalini's original owner, that is impossible. The reason I adopted her is because she was returned to a petstore three times for biting her owners, and there are no records. The petstore has a grooming salon, where I give dogs haircuts and I got to know this bunny as she spent a lot of time in the store waiting to be re-adopted. She began to recognize me and occasionally sat up on her little hind legs to watch me from across the room--and she would only eat the carrots I gave her, no one elses:bunnyheart She was returned three times for chomping people, and when a sign was put on her cage reading "Do not touch--bites!" I figured she had to come home with me before someone "adopted" her for their pet snake! Sooo...home with me she came (and she was just cage aggressive, by the way. She is much nicer to people now.) Anyway, I didn't mean to get off topic, but that is why I don't know if Kundalini is spayed or not. Umm, do you think she'll ever be accepted by the other two? (After both females are fixed.) Both cages are really way too small for the rabbits. The pair share a large wire dog crate, and Kundalini is in a starter cage for rabbits. Each is just large enough for the food and water dishes, a litter box, and a place to flop. They do need bigger cages to be comfortable, but rather than buy two new cages, I would ultimately like to get them over their territorial issues and have them live together in a new cage that is large enough to comfortably house the three of them.

 

[Pipp]

If you build a cage from cube shelving panels, you can expand and contract as needed.

We have a whole forum on cages, check it out...

Cages and Construction

Here's a hard-to-see example of the one I put up in an awkward corner area. It has the necessary shelves and nooks for 'time out' space, prevents fights.

Hope this helps!


sas :bunnydance:

 

[Prizm]

Thanks for sharing! I think NIC cages are beautiful and I always recommend rabbit owners build them rather than purchase tiny manufactured ones. --I just don't have the space to build one myself right now. The living room furniture would need to be re-arranged to accomodate a larger cage, for the time being, I just give them plenty of free time to run around when I'm home.

I just returned Narnia to Dusty's cage. In an attempt to give them a bit more room, I placed a wooden board on top of their litter box so they can hop on top if it. Their litter box is actually inside of a larger cardboard box with an entrance hole, so it's almost like a little nest box now. The box is filled with carefresh and hay, and they are both inside it at the moment. No scuffle sounds--Dusty urinated a few times outside of the cage while I cleaned it though, which is very unusual for him. Does that sound medically concerning?

 

[Prizm]

Uh, I should add that Narnia looks very lethargic and Dusty is grooming her. Her nose is still twitchin though.

 

[Pipp]

I don't think a two panel x two panel x two panel NIC cage would be any bigger than the dog crate, the only difference is being able to add a shelf, no?

But that's good that they have something to hop on now, it's good exercise as well as a 'time out' space. Do they like it?

I usually put my litter box inside a cardboard box as well, they love their 'hidey spot'.

Glad to see they're not fighting.


sas :clover:

 

[Pipp]

Unusual urination and lethargy are always concerning. The nose will almost always be twitching, doesn't signal good health. They hide their illnesses very well.

I'd very carefully check both of them over to make sure the wound isn't getting infected and there are no further injuries, and make sure they're drinking a lot of fluids, especially Dusty.

Is they usually active at this time? The urination may be the result of the third bunny and a need to mark territory, but watch them like a hawk. Check the frequency and color.

EDIT: Oh wait, Dusty is urinating, Narnia is lethargic! Editing to correct.


sas :clover:

 

[Prizm]

Narnia is also the one with the larger wound between her shoulder blades. It is red but not swollen or oozing, and it is hardened over, if that helps?

 

[tonyshuman]

Were you able to clean the wounds with a disinfectant, like betadine? If not, I think I would put triple antibiotic ointment on the wounds (the kind without pain medicine in it) to soften up the scabs and disinfect a bit. Perhaps do that twice a day for 3-4 days? I don't think it would be good to take off the scab, but you want to soften it so that antibacterial stuff can get through the scab to the wound. I don't know. :dunno: I don't have a lot of experience with wounds! I guess you could just put betadine on top of the scab and on the sides too, to disinfect.

The location of the bite wounds makes me think they had a humping contest. A lot of bunnies will bite the bunny they are humping on the back of the neck to hold them there, I guess. But, it seems to have happened with a lot more ferocity than normal, which makes me think the 3rd rabbit upset their balance.

Is the wound very warm to the touch? I don't like that she is lethargic. Is she dehydrated? Eating, drinking, pooping? If any of these things stops, due to lethargy or pain, she should see a vet for pain meds, assesment of the wound, and maybe some extra fluids.

How big are the wounds? Dime-sized? Quarter-sized? Bigger? What were their bottoms wet with? Poo or urine or water?

 

[Prizm]

To be more helpful, I opened up a photobucket account and uploaded some photos of the wound and their wet little butts here, if you would like to see: http://s885.photobucket.com/albums/ac51/fyrflyinajar/

Narnia actually has a few bites on her, but the largest one is nickel sized---It isn't bloody or filled with puss, nor is it warm to the touch. I haven't heard any fighting from the two, but their rears are both still wet and they are leaving poop piles all over their cage. Narnia doesn't seem as zoned out as last night..so, I'm hoping that is a good sign. The third rabbit, the one who lives separately, is clean and using her box. Everyone seems to be eating and drinking normally.

--Just editing to add that Narnia's nose is twitching much faster than normal and much faster than Dusty's. Do you think fast twitching is similar to a dog's panting, or a sign of pain?

 

[tonyshuman]

It's possible that the wet butts are from peeing and pooping everywhere because they are re-establishing dominance. Any change to the smell of the house needs to be met with an increase in their smell to show who's boss, it seems. All I can guess is that it should go away once harmony has been restored in your house. You could start doing some bonding techniques, like switching litterboxes between the two so that they get used to each others' smells, and having some bunny dates on neutral territory.

I have two pairs of bunnies that don't get along with each other. They're both free-roaming, but the boundary between the two halves of the apartment is a place where lots of territory marking occurs. We have a baby gate up and usually put down a linoleum remnant piece we have under that to protect the floor. Both pairs of bunnies have litterboxes right by the gate as well, to hopefully control it a bit better.

That bite wound is a bit big, but I think if you keep it clean it should heal on its own without problems. I would clean it with betadine daily though, plus then you get into the habit of checking the area daily. If it feels hot, or very thick/deep, it may need to be checked out.

Nose twitching is usually a sign of "interest". So if their nose is twitching more, they're much more interested in what's going on. It may be agitation or smelling new smells due to the new bunny.