Hay Allergy Challenges

[pamnock]

Happi Bun wrote:

I'm quite honestly just blown away by the claims that hay is not a necessity. I'm not trying to start an argument or debate either, promise. It's just everything I have ever read or heard about Rabbit's states hay is essential, not even just small amounts but unlimited.

You're confusing fiber (which is essential) and hay (which is just a source of fiber). There are many sources of fiber. Hay is not essential.

 

[Flash]

As you may remember I had a bunny that lived 16-1/2 yrs without ever having hay given to him. I asked his previous owners and they never gave him hay. I tried everything to get him to eat hay but he wouldn't he'd throw it out of his litterbox. So I increased his pellets and he ate veggies. He had very bad teeth and spurs from not eating the hay but he lived a long happy life.

 

[funnybunnymummy]

Thanks for your replies!

That's what I was basically wondering: Could a rabbit's diet be adjusted so it still got enough fibre and roughage without having to actually eat hay.

Anyway, I'm going to try to alleviate our allergies by getting an air purifier first (and moving the stored hay outside!). But if that doesn't work, then I'mseriously considering a hay-free diet similar to what Hazel-Mom is using. So long as he's getting enough fibre and roughage, then I can't see how removing hay will be bad for him.

Thanks!

Rue

 

[NorthernAutumn]

Ooh, Rue!
I just had the biggest brainfart last night before going to bed!
Gus' cage is still on the plywood above the tub, right?

Would it be possible to remodel his cage slightly? (say, build 1 NIC upwards, and reduce the length by 1 NIC ?)

The reason I say this is because you could use the inside of the tub as your hay storage. It is essentially enclosed, and almost air tight.
All you need is a trap door in the top of the plywood with which to access the hay.
Pop your bale in, then get at it through the trap door. Close when finished. You could get a little rake to reach the stuff at the opposite end of the tub when the hay gets low.

Obviously, you still need a hepa filter, and regular vaccuming, but I think this would reduce the challenge significantly (also keeping it all confined in the bathroom, where you can use the exhaust fan to keep the air circulating).

Here is a diagram of what I was thinking...
(Lord, I need Autocad!)
*** Note your very own Gus sitting in his house ... the miracles of paint! :biggrin2:


View attachment Gus's hutch.gif

 

[sbaxter]

Don`t get a wall extractor the type you use for kitchens and bathrooms for moisture as we have one in our utility room for the inlaws to smoke in (must add all laundry is removed while they are here)But the warm air is extracted and cold fresh air sucked in which is all good but in the cold of winter we are heating the room then extracting the warm air out
:tears2:

 

[NorthernAutumn]

I believe Gus is in the bathroom, so it is more than likely that an exhaust fan has already been installed...?

 

[Luluznewz]

So this might be a silly thing to say...but how much hay are you buying at one time? I noticed you said you feel like you are constantly vacuuming and I dont really understand how it gets so messy.

I only have one rabbit, but I just buy small bags at a time. There is no need for enormous tubs and stuff like that. Also, I have Lulu in a cage with a deep bottom. This really helps keep the hay from flying everywhere. Also, I have this ball / cage contraption that keeps the hay together and trying to get it out keeps her entertained. Basically the end result is hay only in the cage.

Perhaps that could be a simple solution? I know it wouldn't completely remove the hay problem, but maybe you wouldn't have to vacuum so much.

I'm probably oversimplifying. Perhaps another brand (and possibly less fresh)of hay could help too.

What about "hay cubes". They are still rough for their digestive systems but are more tightly packaged and less dusty.

 

[NorthernAutumn]

^^^ Many folks buy hay in bulk, as it is far less expensive. I can see the point though... less hay, less quantity of allergenic material sitting there.

I agree. the age of the hay may be playing a role here.

As hay ages, the vegetation itself becomes more brittle and more susceptible to breaking down when handled = dust

I would presume that a fresher hay would not produce as much dust as an older hay. There is also the possibility that mold cultures would be more developed on older hay, causing stronger allergic reaction.

ETA: Hope you don't mind, Rue, but I edited your thread title to reflect the full nature of the question

 

[aurora369]

Ryan, my fiance, has awful hay and grass allergies. He breaks out in hives if he touches hay or kneels/lays on grass. During the spring/summer months, he is normally on some strong allergy medicine to combat his hayfever. The rest of the year, he's okay even with the bunnies and hay in the house. He has been living with me for three years now and we have got a good system down to help with his allergies.

The most important thing we found is the hepa filter. I found one with the largest square footage rating that I could at the time. I keep it on at all times.

If Gus is in the bathroom, then a air purifier in the bath room would really help keep all allergens in the bath room and keep the air moving and clean. Ryan will start sneezing if I turn of the air purifier to clean it, even if he's in the next room and can't see me doing it, so I know it's not a placebo affect.

I keep a small bin of hay inside the house, about one flake. The rest of the bale, I keep outside in a large bin. I go out and refill the small bin when the hay is used up. I find this method minimizes the hay mess and the allergies.

Recently, we picked up a second air filter. We found that the original one was doing such a great job after three years, so we picked up a second one. The original one is great at pulling hair out the air, and the new one has been great for dust and allergens in the air.

I also find that vacuuming regularly helps a lot. Ryan will get snuffly if I don't vacuum every couple of days. The last place we lived in had laminate floors, and he that was much better for his allergies than the carpet we have now.

Try picking up some hay from Vanderveen's in Langley. They have really nice hay and lots of options. You can try a local grass, orchard or some other type of grass hay and see if that reduces the allergies.
http://www.vanderveenhay.com/

-Dawn

 

[Baby Juliet]

funnybunnymummy wrote:

Okay, so if I put Gus "out to graze" every day, that would probably be okay for him? What about increasing the amount of leafy greens he gets each day? Would that help? And how much "grazing" would he need to do to be healthy?

I wasn't intending to take him off hay and give him just pellets. I know pellets alone aren't good for him. But I was hoping that substituting more greens or somesuch could work.

This allergy issue is becoming, well, a very big issue lately.

Rue

If you're willing to let him graze daily you can just do all your hay feeding outdoors. That way no hay in the house. A daily ration of hay in a x-pen should do.

Grazing an hour or so on lawn grass also works. Favorite time seems to be late afternoon early evening. Other times they may not be feeding.

 

[funnybunnymummy]

Thanks, guys!

Autumn, I don't mind you changing the title at all if it'll help me keep Gus in the house. (Oh, and I love the MS Paint diagram! :biggrin2: )

Luluznewz: The hay stays in the bathroom and rarely gets tracked anywhere anymore (especially since I installed Gus's handy new hay rack), but we have a forced air furnace and I think that's what's blowing the hay dust all around the house. (Like seriously, I havethese HUGEdust bunnies in my bedroomI've never had before! :shock And I have the bathroom fan running 24/7.

Anyway, definitely looking into getting an air filter/purifier for the bathroom (and maybe one for our bedroom, if I can afford it!) and will go from there. Superstore has thejumbo-sizedRubbermaid containers on sale for $15, so I'm thinking of popping in and picking one up today.Then the hay cango outside in the carport.

Dawn, I'll contact Vanderveens and see if they have some nice fresh hay. I honestly have no idea how old the hay I've been buying is. But it is REALLY dusty!

Juliet, I haven't bunny-proofed my backyard yet, but when I do (in the spring), Gus will get to spend a few hours a day out there (he really enjoys being outdoors!). Then I could probably get away with feeding less hay. Of course, that still leaves the winter to figure out a solution for.

Thanks so much for the help everyone!

Rue

 

[fuzz16]

sounds horrible....but garage?

 

[BethM]

A few things, maybe already covered, maybe not......

I'm not allergic to my bunnies, but I'm horribly allergic to the hay dust. I use Singulair (for mild asthma) and Flonase (for sinus polyps, it keeps the tissues from swelling up too much). After I got my bunnies, I was miserable, so my doctor added in Zyrtec. I haven't personally had any problems with this combination, and I no longer have many symptoms, unless I forget to take the meds.

My old apartment had carpet, which collected and held in the dust, and I found an air purifier very helpful. It helped collect some dust and fur before it had a chance to get to the carpet. I had a larger unit, which I kept right near to the rabbit cage, and a smaller unit in the bedroom. I had the kind that will suck the air through a HEPA filter, then send the cleaner air out again. There was a secondary filter, which I cleaned off once a week outside, and I sometimes wore a mask when I was cleaning it. (I now have wood floors throughout, and vacuuming alone seems to do fine for me.)

If you're buying the hay in bulk,.....Put the large bale or whatever in a container somewhere. Then, you can get a smaller container, maybe one that can hold a week's worth of hay, and fill it up periodically from the larger container. That way, there won't be loose bits that are dragged through the house. When you transfer the hay between containers, some dust will be stirred up, and will be carried away. You'll also be storing a smaller amount (=less allergens) indoors, withoutcarrying loose hay around every day. I also find, in the 25lb box of hay I buy, much of the dustier bits tend to settle around the bottom, so when I transfer it to my smaller "everyday use" container, less dust is transferred. (This method works fairly well for me, though my large box is just in a closet, and not outside the living area.)

Good luck!

 

[Happi Bun]

pamnock wrote:

Happi Bun wrote:

I'm quite honestly just blown away by the claims that hay is not a necessity. I'm not trying to start an argument or debate either, promise. It's just everything I have ever read or heard about Rabbit's states hay is essential, not even just small amounts but unlimited.

You're confusing fiber (which is essential) and hay (which is just a source of fiber). There are many sources of fiber. Hay is not essential.

Actually, I'm not confusing the two. Like I stated, everything I have ever read or heard about Rabbit's states hay is essential. Says so right on the House Rabbit Society's website and in my House Rabbit Connection's Rabbit Care Guide.

However, I do realize not everyone cares for Rabbit's the same way and that doesn't mean you are any less of a good bun parent. If your Rabbit's are Healthy and Happy then what more could you ask for? Me personally, I just never will believe hay is not essential. I put up with hay all over the carpet and clogging up my vacuum because of it.

Anyway, I'm just going to agree to disagree as I don't want to clutter the thread with a debate that wont get us anywhere and isn't helping Rue's dilemma.

 

[Hazel-Mom]

Happi Bun wrote:

pamnock wrote:

Happi Bun wrote:

I'm quite honestly just blown away by the claims that hay is not a necessity. I'm not trying to start an argument or debate either, promise. It's just everything I have ever read or heard about Rabbit's states hay is essential, not even just small amounts but unlimited.

You're confusing fiber (which is essential) and hay (which is just a source of fiber). There are many sources of fiber. Hay is not essential.

Actually, I'm not confusing the two. Like I stated, everything I have ever read or heard about Rabbit's states hay is essential. Says so right on the House Rabbit Society's website and in my House Rabbit Connection's Rabbit Care Guide.

However, I do realize not everyone cares for Rabbit's the same way and that doesn't mean you are any less of a good bun parent. If your Rabbit's are Healthy and Happy then what more could you ask for? Me personally, I just never will believe hay is not essential. I put up with hay all over the carpet and clogging up my vacuum because of it.

Anyway, I'm just going to agree to disagree as I don't want to clutter the thread with a debate that wont get us anywhere and isn't helping Rue's dilemma.

Looks like the HRS is confusing fiber and hay then, and many people take them litteraly.
You have to remember that the HRS guidelines are just that, guidelines, and not the "end all beat all".
Personally, I have never seen any of the wild rabbits here eat hay. They actually go out of their way in the summer to find things that are lush and green instead.
But, it is of course easyer for most people to feed hay, and that's probably why HRS states that hay is essential. If they had said Fiber instead, it would have confused lots of people as to how to feed the necesary fiber. And any fiber is definitely better than none.

 

[GorbyJobRabbits]

I'm not meaning to sound grouchy, because I'm really not... its just that every one of these sites I've found, or people who keep house rabbits as pets, will argue the point to death with people that breed them for livings... that hay is super important.

I'm only pointing you out, because you used a HOUSE rabbit site. So thats the only reason I'm picking on you.

And then you say if our rabbits are healthy and happy without it, then what more could you ask for? Thats saying they don't have to have it. There are other options.


and to the origional poster..... Have you tried HAY CUBES? that way they're in a bag, if you insist on still feeding hay, you still are? But you wont have the dust from the hay

 

[NorthernAutumn]

Alright folks, both sides have made excellent points, and given everyone a lot to think about.

Moving on now...

Rue, I sure do hope you can find a solution! Sounds like there are a lot of good options to diminish allergies. I look forward to an update when you get some of the strategies implemented

 

[funnybunnymummy]

Thanks, Autumn!

I really do appreciate all the helpful opinions and ideas (from both sides of the debate! ).

Rue

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

funnybunnymummy wrote:

I know that hay is the most important part of a rabbit's diet, but is there a waythat a rabbit can have a healthy diet without hay? (Especially if the hay is causing the rabbit's ownerallergies?)

Thanks!

Rue

70% of the diet must be non-digestible fiber,,ie timothy,,orchard hay,,you can google house of rabbit society/adopt a rabbit,-,to get a list-/ideas for other non-digestible fibers,,for nutritional and vitamin needs,,-i-use purina rabbit chow-half cup daily-this product is digestible//big difference in the needs of the rabbit//-if the diet is not 70% non-digestible,,bad for the teeth,bad for the gi tract flora causes gi stasis(death)//-rabbits are rear gut fermenters,,the gut flora is made up of two bacteria,s//.rabbits eat their night poops(good bacteria)..,and the normal day poops everyone sees in the poop box...thank you for this question--allergies,yea--i got em--i live with it,,but i limit the amount of hay i have to live with...hope this helps..sincerely james waller:wave: