Gastric stasis again

[Sammybunny]

Sorry for the lack of update as I was at work all day. Sammy is still hanging in there. He is acting relatively normal. He ate some greens and a little pellets this morning and drank water . I did his treatments as usual and gave alot of wet greens. At lunch there was two blobs of what I think was his poop because Charlotte is normal. Still not enough for the amount he is eating. His belly feels less gassy but not normal yet. so I guess that is a little improvement, but not a huge one. Oh and I took an Xray today and it looks like there is a bunch of fecal material lower in the intestines that might be causing the issue but hopefully I can hydrate it and get it out of there. Again surgery is not an option at this point so i guess I continue what I am doing minus the gut motility drugs which I stopped a few days ago. I did put him on Baytril as I noticed mucus but the mucus is still clear and not yellow or anything. The doc wants to try that first and if we have to, we will do Flagyl. I am worried about clostridium at this point.

 

[Maureen Las]

Can you get the biosponge or use metroninidazole (flagyl) ;I would be concerned about clostridium

 

[aurora369]

As far as I understand, Baytril is not going to do anything to fight clostridium. If anything, it actually kills good bacteria in the gut and would be more harmful than good in this situation.

Metroninidazole (flagyl), is one of the few antibiotics that is helpful in a GI stasis event. It is able to attack the bad bacteria with out really harming the good gut bacteria.

Biosponge would be awesome in this situation. It binds to toxins and stops them from being absorbed into the body. Very helpful with upset GI tract.

-Dawn

 

[Sammybunny]

I can get ahold of flagyl easy, the biosponge not so easy. Update to this evening, there was a glob of really soft stool on the ground and I am sure it was from him as it was right after he hopped to the other side of the room. Also this evening his belly is way less gassy. I can actually palpate the different internal organs plus some of the poo that is heading on down the intestines. I am hopeful that that will end up in the litter box real soon. He wasn't even acting painful when I did the massage and his gut didn't sound as violent as it had been. There are gut sounds though so I think things are trying to normalize. Once I get him through this stasis, we are going to look into giving his mouth a more thorough exam because maybe he has molar spurs bothering him. I really do think he is a megacolon bunny though as everything that I am reading fits him to a T. Not a great diagnosis, but it does explain a lot and hopefully we will be able to manage it better.

 

[tonyshuman]

I agree, Baytril is not going to help with clostridium. It may actually kill any remaining good bacteria, and thus let the clostridium overpopulate the GI.

I'm glad he seems to be feeling better. If you need to force-feed him, due to mouth pain, that's not a bad idea at all. Pain meds may help too.

I think Flagyl would really help at this point, since he has the mucus, pain, etc. It will not only help control clostridium, but is anti-inflammatory in the gut. Increased inflammation and pain are going to make things not move through as quickly in any situation.

 

[Sammybunny]

We are doing a little better today. I got the flagyl suspension and am going to stop baytril and start flagyl. He is very bright and alert and came out on his own today to hop around. He is eating lots of greens and a small amount of pellets. The gas is still way less and I felt the poopy mass move farther down the intestines. I think things are starting to move slowly but surely. He had more poop. Mostly a glob here and there. Nothing real formed, but at least it is getting out and hopefully the flagyl will help with that. I think that we are on the mend and I have the day off tomorrow to monitor him even more closely. Well I will be cleaning house but can keep a better eye on him rather than rely on text messages from my boyfriend. Thanks so much for the support guys. It really helps to get ideas from people that understand rabbits.

 

[Pipp]

Yay! Could be better but could be worse!

This means that I'd be extra careful if you're thinking of restarting the Reglan or moving to Cisapride because I do believe there are cautions re: mixing those drugs with Flagyl. (I won't bother researching it, but something to check out).


sas

 

[Sammybunny]

I was researching the reglan flagyl interactions and couldn't find any. I even looked in the doctors Plumb drug guide and didn't see anything. I did find Cisparide flagyl interactions though. Something about arrythmias. So that is a no no. I will look more though.

 

[Pipp]

It may have been a general reference to not mixing flagyl and gut motility drugs (and narcotic painkillers fits in there somewhere). Don't know where I saw it offhand.

Good to define it, thanks.

sas

 

[Sammybunny]

Well we have poop now. It is nasty soft diarrhea poop, but at least it is coming out. There was mucous in it as well, but the mucous is clear. He seems happier and is still eating, although he is spending alot of time in the litterbox to the point that he is resting in it. One thing that I noticed though is he is losing his litterbox habits for urine. It started with the bladder infection and a little before that, and it continues. The bladder infection is gone, I know that for a fact, but he continues to go outside the box. It is becoming rather messy because he and Charlotte live in an xpen set up that I use a tarp for the bottom layer and cardboard over that. The cardboard is getting really stinky quickly and I just changed it on Sunday. Any other ideas for a cleanable cage bottom for an xpen? The cardboard I get from work when we get our inventory, but I am depleting it faster than we are getting it. Well, I am happy anyways that Sammy is on the road to recovery.

 

[Maureen Las]

What about a big thick layer of newspapers? I get newspapers from everyone and from the shelter.
You can also buy brown throw away brown paper tarps at Menards; you can use it daily and throw it away.... but that gets expensive

you could also use a lot of towels but you would be washing constantly
I will keep thinking :?

 

[ra7751]

Couple of things....Metacam can be very damaging to the liver. It has to be dosed properly...once a day, at a precise amount and for a limited time. Next....DO NOT GIVE BAYTRIL TO A GI COMPROMISED RABBIT. The only thing you are going to do it destroy any beneficial bacteria that is left. Did a vet tell you to give Baytril for this? If so, I would see if I could find another vet. The bacteria that presents itself is an anaerobic bacteria known as Clostridium. Baytril is not effective against Clostridium. It is only causing harm. The proper antibiotic response to this condition is Metronidazole (Flagyl). It is also an anti-inflammatory so it should help with any discomfort.And see if you can get some BioSponge....it doesn't require a prescription. You can buy it directly from Platinum Performance. And I have had rabbits like this for over a week at a time...and they are still here. I had a good plan and executed the plan....many people, including vets, tend to over react and make poor decisions. The idea, as I have mentioned in many threads on stasis, is to steady the ship. I do as little as possible to get the desired result.

Randy

 

[Sammybunny]

He is acting a lot better even with the loose stools. This is how his last stasis incident went albeit the poops came much faster than this time. I did stop the baytril and switched to flagyl starting yesterday. Baytril was what he was on on the last stasis incident, but flagyl makes much more sense and I will use that for future cases. He is getting sq fluids although I decreased a bit because he is drinking more and eating lots of leafy greens. I have weaned him off the metacam as he isn't acting in pain anymore and I know that metacam can be liver toxic over time. I also make sure he is very hydrated when he is on it. I am not using any gut motility drugs and obviously don't need them now that we have poops. I think that the hydration and antibiotics are helping alot. I have him on benebac for gut flora which he likes. I an not using the simithicone anymore because his tummy feels much less gassy. I will look into getting the biosponge definitely especially if this is going to happen again.
As to the cage bottom issues I do put towels in there for them to lay on and scruch around and I do wash them alot, the newspaper idea is good except Sammy is a digger and loves to tear paper up. He tears the cardboard up as well, it just takes longer. I was thinking that xpens might have a bottom that they sell seperately I think I will look into that. Hmm I do really need a new cage bottom idea.

 

[Sammybunny]

Still doing good today, Lots of poop. They are more formed today, but still really soft. He is eating and drinking pretty much normally now, and his belly feels normal again. I stopped the metacam, gas x, and Sq fluids and am just doing the flagyl till it is done. This time was pretty hard, I didn't think he would ever start pooping again. Now his cage is getting really messy because he is going outside the litterbox, but at least he's going. I will have to do a total scrub down this weekend again.

 

[tonyshuman]

That sounds good. Try to limit sugary or high protein foods, like treats or pellets, to get his poo normal.

 

[Sammybunny]

Sammy is acting completely normal today. He is hopping around eating his food, drinking and shredding his phone book. He is still having very runny poop but at least it is there. I hope the flagyl will help that. He is on a strict diet of leafy greens and hay. I'm not even giving him his papaya treats because they do have sugar in them. I did give him a tablespoon of pellets but I think he only ate a mouthful. The pellets are more for Charlotte as she is completely fine. I am going to schedule Sammy for an appt to check his teeth when he is completely well. There has to be something triggering this stasis issue that I want to get to the bottom of. I am still wondering if it is megacolon though. All signs point to it, we shall see.

 

[Maureen Las]

I think one of my buns had megacolon although he is gone now due to kidney issues unrelated to that.
he had huge and then smaller misshapen slimey poops that were never the same size and would go into sudden very difficult bouts of stasis. He was fed everything correctly and diet didn't help .

We have another member, Jenk , who has a megacolon bun and although she has not posted recently she has been through a lot of ups and downs with her girl also.
It is difficult to treat.

 

[tonyshuman]

Naturestee also has a megacolon bunny. This bunny's sister passed away due to GI complications. Naturestee now has the sister's megacolon pretty well controlled with a very specific diet. I don't know exactly what it is, but shded probably tell you if you PM'd her. She's very busy lately, but should answer a PM.

I know that megacolon is a bit controversial, some say it doesn't really exist. I don't know for myself. Here are some links:
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Differential/mega_differential.htm
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Mechanical_diseases/megacolon.pdf

 

[Sammybunny]

thanks guys,
I haven't had an offical diagnosis as the vet hasn't really heard of megacolon in rabbits but it makes sense though. I deal with a megacolon kitty at work and she is on lactulose maintenance and hasn't had an issue in months. Sammy has never had normal poops since I got him as a baby. His poops have always been different sizes and hardly ever the normal coco puffs that Charlotte has. Thats why I could tell he wasn't pooping even though I hadn't seperated them. They are very bonded and that would have upset both of them.
He is doing really well now. He did have a slightly grumbly tummy this morning but no gas or bloatedness. He has a voracious appetite now and is constantly eating and pooping. Poops are still soft but are normalizing. He feels slightly thinner to me when I picked him up this morning. I haven't weighed him since I brought him to work during the middle of his episode when he was 6.9 pounds. I guess he may have lost a little weight but hopefully will gain it back with his eating. Thanks to all who have helped me through this. It really helps to get support and ideas from people who have dealt with this before.

 

[l.lai]

Can someone explain the main cause of gastric stasis?