Frazzled after neutering

[pbheather]

I have a netherland dwarf male about 5 months old. He was just neutered today and I brought him home. He was a little shaky, but that has gone away. I fed him kale and carrots and he seemed really really hungry. The fur around his eyes look kinda crusty too. I know he's just gotten home, and maybe it'll be better in the morning, but should I change his vet if it seems like they didn't feed or water him throughout the day? I took him in at 7:30 and picked him up at 5:30. I took in pellets and a water bottle, and neither were any less than when I had filled it this morning. That vet didn't seem really in tune with rabbits, but had assured me they'd done a successful neutering on a rabbit a few weeks ago, so I took him. They told me to fast him the night before (like cats and dogs), but I just didn't feed him this morning before taking him in, because I know buns need constant food. He has urinated and I found some feces in his pen.

A vet I'm taking my female of the same breed seems a little more knowledgeable. They told me only not to feed her the morning before being spayed, and to bring in food and water for after the surgery. I mean, my male's vet only charged about 90 dollars, said it was cause it didn't take long, so I'm happy about not paying too much, but I'm worried about how he's come home. Maybe I'm just over reacting, but I may switch to the vet my female is going to.

 

[ra7751]

Umm...rabbits should never be fasted. Many vets will ask that pellets be removed the morning of the surgery but they should still have access to hay and water. I have had rabbits eating going into surgery. I would talk with the vet. This could be a staff education issue.....the "front desk"routinely tell dog/cat owners that but if they want to be credible, they need to give good information. If the vet tells you to fast a rabbit, find another vet. And if you have any concerns over qualifications, a spay is much more involved than a neuter. I have "called them on the carpet" for telling me to fast a rabbit pre-op.

Randy

 

[pbheather]

I didn't fast him, I just didn't feed him his normal greens in the morning. Yea, when they told me to fast him, I was a little unsure, but it was the front desk, so the nurse was probably just following protocol for cats/dogs. The male's vet said he wouldn't do females, and that was why I had to find a new vet for my female. The other vet seemed more knowledgeable. I looked for exotic vets, or even vets specializing in rabbits, but they're all in Chicago, and that's like 5-6 hours away from me. I'm going to take my male up to the vet my female went to.

 

[pbheather]

Should I call the vet tomorrow and ask them about pain meds? I've been reading and all the sites say buns should get meds and they'll be happier if they have them.

 

[ra7751]

No pain meds? That isn't professional at all. INSIST on pain meds. Metacam is the absolute minimum. I prefer Buprenex but this is a controlled drug....Tramadol is an acceptable alternative. My question to the vet....would he like to be neutered without pain meds?

 

[pbheather]

I go to the same vet for my cat as I had for the male bun. I had two cats before, and both were spayed on the same day, and both received pain meds. I'm going to call them tomorrow and ask about it. I picked him up near closing time, but still, wouldn't the vet leave instructions and a bottle of pills? Yea, I am definitely not going back to that vet.

 

[pbheather]

Okay, I looked a little closer at his eye, which looks crusted. It's a bald spot just above his eyes. There's a few hairs left, but there's pink skin. He's not rubbing or anything on it, but it still bothers me. That and the no pain meds. I called the emergency clinic in my area, and they don't treat rabbits, so they don't know. I'm gonna have to call the vet in the morning, and I am not happy with them.

 

[tonyshuman]

Usually the eyes will look greasy because they put an oily substance in them. While under anesthesia, the reflex that tells them to blink to keep their eyes moist is reduced so the eyes can dry out if you don't put the moistening eye drops in. This happens with all animals, even humans. My dwarf hamster was put under anesthesia a couple of times, and she always came back to me looking like a greasy little rodent because of the eye drops! I hope that's what you're describing, because if the vet didn't put eye drops in, I would very very seriously question his knowledge.

I don't know what the bald spot could be. Maybe some fur got pulled out somehow?

Make sure to ask for pain meds tomorrow. He probably won't give you tramadol like Randy suggested, but may instead opt for Metacam (meloxicam). It's basically like ibuprofen in terms of how much pain it can handle. I have had a bunny neutered and he did fine with metacam, and I know it's what all the shelter bunnies get after their spays and neuters.

 

[pbheather]

Well it may not be so much a bald spot as the fur may be pulled back and I haven't ever seen it like that. I looked at it real close, and it may just be the eyelid I'm seeing and not a real bald spot. I didn't know they put eye drops in both animals and humans. That's interesting. But I am going to call about the meds. He seems to be in some pain, and I know buns don't show pain easily, but he tried laying down. and he clenched his paws poor thing. He kinda drags his bum too. I put a heating pad on low and wrapped it in a towel and put it in his pen. I also put a pillow on the entrance of his cage so it'll be easier to get in and out. I'm hoping some of that will help until I can get ahold of the vet. I know it'll only be until morning, but I don't want him to be in any pain.

 

[tonyshuman]

Oh that sounds like he is in pain. The heating pad is a good idea as long as you don't let him at the cord. I would actually keep him confined in a pretty small area for now.

I know that we sometimes recommend some over-the-counter pain meds if a vet can't be reached, but I know aspirin in this case wouldn't be a good idea because it is a blood thinner. The other option is ibuprofen, which is also blood-thinning, but not to the same extent as aspirin. I am not sure on this issue as I have found comments from experts on both sides--both pro- and anti-taking ibuprofen around the time of a surgery.

 

[pbheather]

So should I try to clean off the area around his eye? Or should I let him do it?

 

[ra7751]

The gel around the eye is an ointment that is used during anethesia to keep the eyes from drying out. Don't sweat that. It sounds like he needs some pain meds.

 

[pbheather]

So I can give him ibuprofen if I really had to?

 

[tonyshuman]

Well, it would be up to you. Some of the stuff I've read says to avoid it 7 days before and 7 days after surgery, due to its ability to interfere with blood clotting. Some say it's totally fine to use right before and/or after surgery. I know when I had my wisdom teeth out (the only surgery I've had), I took ibuprofen because I couldn't tolerate the vicodin. Also, after marathons, I take tons of ibuprofen, and there's a good chance for bruising and muscle tears following the race that would need clotting to heal.

I would use it on a bunny I couldn't get post-neuter pain meds for, but of course I'd want to keep an eye on the wounds to make sure they don't come open and check for blood buildup or edema around the surgery sites (pockets of blood under the skin).

Here's the dosing info for ibuprofen: http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/rx/drugcalc.html

This is totally your decision, though. Ibuprofen has some anti-clotting effects similar to aspirin, but not nearly to the same extent as aspirin. I would certainly use it with caution and keeping an eye out for bleeding.

 

[pbheather]

Okay, I think I'm going to get the Ibuprofen in the morning and give it to him. The drug dosage calculator tonyshuman sent me the link for says to only give him about 3 mg I think. I'll have to go to Walmart and get it.

 

[pbheather]

Well, Jayne seems better today. A lot better. He's been moving around a lot, the site looks really good, and he doesn't act like he's in pain at all.

 

[Pipp]

I use Baby Motrin when I don't have Metacam.

Sounds like he's doing well. Neutering a male is actually pretty easy, the surgery isn't that invasive and its easier for a less-experienced Vet to perform. The pain level is lower as well.

However, paying a female IS invasive surgery, I'd only go to a very experienced Vet for that operation, and I wouldn't leave the office without pain killers. (They may try and tell you that the shot they give them will be enough, but it's not).

Definitely warmth will make them feel better. The anesthetic will make their body temperature drop.



sas :clover:

 

[pumpkinandwhiskersmom]

Glad to hear things are better today!:highfive:
Even though I am not as experienced as many who are on here, I totally agree with Pipp!! We have gone through male and female surgery, and it is much more traumatic and painful for females. Whiskers, our little boy, was much more comfortable the next day, but Pumpkin took several days to be back to her old self. Surgery for females in this area is much more invasive and delicate. If it was me, I'd want to make absolutely sure that the vet had had some experience with rabbits. Just my $0.02.

 

[pbheather]

The vet I saw at the office in Springfield told me they had done females before, and it had been successful. They had said they don't give meds to males, they didn't say anything about females getting meds after getting fixed, but I'm going to ask before I take my female in for the surgery. I want to make sure they will give her the pain meds after the procedure so she won't be in pain. She's skittish as it is, and she doesn't trust even me. Not having the pain meds after the surgery will deepen that distrust, and I want her to bond with both me and my male.