Feeling the spine?

[treasuresandstuff]

Please note I have only had these guys about 3 weeks now.

During todays grooming I noticed I can feel every single vertebrae in their spines. I can count their ribs with my fingers with definite dips between each. I can feel the bones in their legs.

It has been a few years since I raised SAs. I can not remember how thin is healthy and when it becomes an issue. When I got these two it was awful. I cried for each. Diamond was with a couple of dead rabbits and Burnie was so badly matted he freaked if you touched him.

Now they are both accepting handling and are becoming sweeter than they were, we have noticed how terribly thin they are. Should I increase their feed rations? She weighs maybe 2lbs and is about 11 weeks old, he is 1.5 years old and I would say weighs3.5-4.5 lbs but he feels so thin! Here are new pics of them. Her coat is too full and healthy to show how boney she is, but with him you get an idea because we have to keep him clipped.

There is a definite dip between his shoulder blades I have never seen in a rabbit before, she has it too but is too fluffy to see it on. Also is she a BEW or REW? I can never remember how to tell the difference.

 

[Tweetiepy]

BEW is blue-eyed-white & REW is red-eyed-white

Cute bunnies though

 

[treasuresandstuff]

I know that but look at her eyes. The iris is blue but the pupil is red. A lot of "REWs" I have seen are like this but so are some of the ones marked "BEWs". How do you know which she is? She is about 11 weeks old.

And um, how thin is too thin? I'm very concerned about how skinny these two are. They will be seeing the vet, as we can but wanted you guys opinions too.

 

[Jaded]

Up his pellets.

 

[treasuresandstuff]

ok. Thanks.

 

[jcl_24]

Even with all that fur, the lop-eared bun justlooks too thin.

I don't know what weight the little white bun should be, but if they have bothcome to you from a place where they were seriously neglected, extra balanced nutriton such as pellets surely cannot hurt.

The dietry requirements of the 11 week old rabbit might be more delicate than for the adult rabbit, so if she eats extra, keep an eye on her (in case stomach problems arise).

_____________________________

If anyone could give more specificnutritional advice here, I'm sure this ROmember would find it very helpful

______________________________

Jo x

 

[missyscove]

At 11 weeks, I'd personally be offering as many pellets as she can consume in one day (free feeding, but I don't like to offer too much more than they will eat because I don't like to leave the pellets out.) She's still growing and if she's underweight to start with, she'll definitely be needing that extra nutrition.
As far as how to tell if he's underweight,
from Michigan state:
"Body Condition Scoring

Adult rabbits weigh between 5 pounds to 14 pounds depending on breed and sex, and can be expected to live between 5 and 10 years. There is no official body condition scoring system that has been developed for rabbits. The best method for accessing if your rabbit’s in good body condition is by touch. You should be able to feel a slight fat covering over your rabbit’s ribs, but still be able to feel the ribs. If it becomes difficult to feel the ribs, your pet is overweight; adjusting the volume of food intake and increasing daily activity should be considered. Monitoring changes in your rabbit’s weight every couple of weeks can help to identify changes in your rabbit’s body condition."
http://cvm.msu.edu/hospital/service...client-education/feeding-your-adult-rabbit-1/

How much are you feeding him a day now?

 

[treasuresandstuff]

I have upped them both to half a cup instead of 1/4 a cup. I won't do free feed as it attracts pests and we have enough issues with that. They get the meals split into two feeds and have hay at all times. I just upped the feed so it is too soon to see if that will help. When she next sees the vet we will discuss locally offered feed brands, additives and other methods of increasing their mass, its not so much weight per se, but rather what is making the weight. Right now she is shedding and actually losing weight because of that, but its not body mass loss at this point, its loss of the incredibly thick fluff that covered her body. You would be amazed if you had seen Diamond in person. Pics do not do her justice! As to Burnie, he was badly neglected before we got him, so we expected him to need some feeding up. I just do not want to give too much too quick and have him decide he doesn't even want the hay and hold out for pellets. Burnie is a pellet piggy. Given a choice I do believe he would ignore hay for pellets.

 

[treasuresandstuff]

Sorry I missed the person mentioning that Burnie (the lop) is too thin, yes, he came to us from a very bad situation. If I recall right, the woman said the teacher in charge of him fed him when he thought about it. She had only had him maybe a month before realizing she could not focus on him as he needed. Thus it falls to me to help them. And finding a lot of people in different places calling me a bad owner for letting them get this way. Sigh, at the vets office when Diamond had poopy butt issues, a woman said I should skin and roast her and put her out of her misery if I was not going to take care of her. The woman did not even care that I had only had her for a few days at that point, it was my fault regardless. Supposedly rabbits only look bad if their current owners are bad people according to some. Of course most of those folks that think that way have never owned a rabbit, so how would they know.

I appreciate the help folks!

Added: Burnie is pretty much bald compared to when he first arrived. When we brought him home he appeared to have a lovely nice coat but he broke a brush with hidden mats and we had to shave him so what you see is mostly fuzz and him.

 

[jcl_24]

Damn those people for automatically assuming the worst :X. If someone was neglecting an animal, they probably wouldn't bother to get it seen by a vet.

What you are doing for those buns is wonderful and their change in temperament (getting less shy around you) shows they are learning you an be trusted.

I look forward to hearing more about them

Nibble, nibble little bunnies! :carrot :eats:

Jo x

 

[treasuresandstuff]

I just gave Burnie some chopped celery tops. At first he looked at me like I was trying to poison him so I sprinkled some pellets and oats on top kinda like people put crutons and bacon bits on their salad and he put his nose in it. I left him alone to see if he wanted to dine alone. I can so hear Catherine Hepburn "I Vant to be alone!" LOL

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

Coming from a breeders prospective on the weight and condition issue. You should not be able to feel the ribs or spine on a well conditioned rabbit. The rabbit must have good muscle tone. Just because the rabbit feels a little chunky does not mean its overweight. It means it is a very healthy animal. Rabbits are supposed to have that meaty, chunky look to them.

Believe it or not, there is a conditioning system developed by breeders to tell how good condition their rabbits are in. you set the rabbit up on a flat surface, with a carpet underneath it. You don't have to pose the bunny if you don't want to. Place one hand over the shoulders, run it over the back, and down the rabbits rump. You should not be able to feel any bones at all. If you feel a lot of loose skin, then your rabbit is overweight, and needs to be cut back on the treats(veggies and greens) and pellets. However, if you feel a lot of loose skin and bones, then you should cut back on everything else, and up their pellet intake. On some rabbits you will be able to feel the bones no matter how much they are fed. Sometimes its a genetic issue. With most it isn't.

That is how show rabbits are judged on health and body condition. It also works for pet rabbits too.

The bunny in question was the sickly one right? Probably like that because it was sick. Give her time. Feed about a cup of pellets a day, and see if she fills out. She should look nice when she does.

Second bunny is def a ruby eyed white. What breed is the white guy? is he a jersey or a lion head? Let me know and I will ask a couple of breeders offlist about the weight range for them. He looks fine to me. I haven't had my hands on him though.

 

[treasuresandstuff]

The big guy is an American Fuzzy Lop, his bone structure is kinda big though, he is the size of a Mini lop instead of a Holland which is closer to the appropriate size of an AFL. He should look round not cylindrical. He is basically a tube of bones and very loose skin. I have upped his pellets. The girl (white one) is a lionhead and is also lots of bones and skin. Yes, part of her issues is she was ill, she felt meatier when we first took her in. We upped their pellets and they get all the hay they want. We will re-evaluate them in about a week and see if we might want to up the pellets again. Sorry the white one is Diamond and she is a doublemaned Lionhead. She is only 11 weeks old, vet says her bones are denser than he expected just looking at her and told us to keep giving a small amount of oats to help her put on weight. He just said to up the pellet intake for Burnie the AFL.

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

treasuresandstuff wrote:

The big guy is an American Fuzzy Lop, his bone structure is kinda big though, he is the size of a Mini lop instead of a Holland which is closer to the appropriate size of an AFL. He should look round not cylindrical. He is basically a tube of bones and very loose skin. I have upped his pellets. The girl (white one) is a lionhead and is also lots of bones and skin. Yes, part of her issues is she was ill, she felt meatier when we first took her in. We upped their pellets and they get all the hay they want. We will re-evaluate them in about a week and see if we might want to up the pellets again. Sorry the white one is Diamond and she is a doublemaned Lionhead. She is only 11 weeks old, vet says her bones are denser than he expected just looking at her and told us to keep giving a small amount of oats to help her put on weight. He just said to up the pellet intake for Burnie the AFL.

I have seen jersies that looked like so wasn't sure. Very cute. She looks fine from the pictures. all the hair is probably covering that up. i think a fuzzy lops is about 4 pounds. Not all of them look nice round. The show quality ones do. The lion head standard should help you out with the weight.

http://www.lionheadrabbit.net/standardallCODs.htm

 

[treasuresandstuff]

Yeah but the problem is that he is physically larger than an AFL is supposed to be so the breed standard doesn't help much for the AFL. He is about what the standard says he should be but he looks and feels malnourished. She is still a baby so its hard to know how she should be as an adult. They have plenty of pellets being offered and tons of hay, hopefully that and patients will be what they need. Thanks for the info.

Added: I looked at the standard, she weighed in just a couple ounces over the minimum for Jrs. Thing is she feels like a bag of bones. I'm going to try torelax so they do not sense my stress and feed them up a month or so then take Burnie in for the Pre-neuter check up. Thank you again!

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

Your lop could be a large fuzzy. Or a mix. that coul dbe why she is so big.

 

[treasuresandstuff]

I was told at one point he had a pedigree but it was never sent to the woman that pulled him from the classroom. But yeah could be a throw back from someone's madeup line of fuzzies. I have heard of it, people breeding lops to angoras and crossing over and over to get them to look like real AFLs. Don't really care too much if he is pure or mutt, I love him anyway. Thank you for your thoughts on it though!

 

[treasuresandstuff]

Good news! The hollow behind his head is gone now! Thanks for the help getting him healthy again. When I pet him now he feels like a warm fuzzy pet instead of a weird hanger with a fur coat on it.

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

Good that is he is doing better. whatever you do, don't overfeed him as suggested above. that is the biggest mistake many people make when they get young rabbits like that. There is a lot of misinformation out there that says they must have all the pellets they want till they are six months old. that is not true. All you end up with a fat, overweight rabbit, with breeding issues9for breeding rabbits) and all kinds of problems. Most breeders and pet owners that don't use that type of information cut them back on weaning age. Which is about 1 cup a day. I would feed him no more then what he will clean up in day, and no more, or less. Don't cut him back to 1/4rth of a cup when he is older either, because you will end up with nutrition problems from it. All he will need is his pellets, water, and a few veggies as treats.

 

[treasuresandstuff]

They are on one cup of pellets a day and I plant to cut back to 2/3s if I notice them getting too plump. I am also phasing out oats completely now. For both. Thank you for your thoughts!