*Exactly* When to Give Motility Drugs?

[Jenk]

What sign(s) indicate that it might be time to start a motility drug to help a bun digest/move food along the digestive tract?

My understanding is that it should be given while a bun is still passing fecals. But I don't know if a certain percentage of the fecals produced (e.g., 50%, etc.) shouldbe decreased in size (or bone dry, etc.)to justify using such a drug.

I don't want to jump too quickly into using such drugs; I also don't want to wait too long (as I did previously with Emma...baaad memories).

Thank you,

Jenk

PS: I want to thank everyone on this forum for putting up with my insane amount of questions. Please know that your answers do help me better understand rabbit care (and, hopefully, help others better understand their own bunny charges).

 

[Maureen Las]

Hey Jen
I can't stay on long now so I'll just sum this up quickly
motility drugs can be very dangerous if used indiscriminately.
I am surprised that your vet even gave them to you.

The reason why there needs to be fecals produced is that the drugs cause fatal consequences if given when the rabbit has an obstruction.
What happens is that the gi tract is contracting from the action of the drugs and eitherjams the mass further into the GI tract without passing it thus creating a **** effect with contracting muscles and no outlet. There can be other side-effects also

usually a vet will not prescribe it unless there is an x-ray.

Randy and his medical team at the rescue totally doesn't believe in these drugs at all and won't use them. He would use hydration from SQ fluids.
I wouldn't use the drugs now if I were you.

Just keep trying to get fluids into her and next time you HAVE to go the vets ask him if he could teach you how to do SQ fluids .It is not that difficult but one has to be sure to give the right amount of lactated ringers . The amt would be based on wt.

 

[Jenk]

angieluv wrote:

motility drugs can be very dangerous if used indiscriminately.
I am surprised that your vet even gave them to you.

I've talked extensively about Zoe's digestive issues; they'rethe reason that I have motility drugs on hand.

The reason why there needs to be fecals produced is that the drugs cause fatal consequences if given when the rabbit has an obstruction. What happens is that the gi tract is contracting from the action of the drugs and eitherjams the mass further into the GI tract without passing it thus creating a darn effect with contracting muscles and no outlet.

This info. I know; I wouldn't give motility drugs if Emma stopped pooping/eating/drinking.

usually a vet will not prescribe it unless there is an x-ray.

My understanding is that an x-ray is required if no fecals are being produced and a mass is suspected. But, as I've stated in another thread, if I had to x-ray my girls each time that their guts slowed, they'd average getting a radiation dosage every 2-3 months'--which seems excessive to me.

As long as I they're still producing stool and eating/drinking an okay amount, my girls' vet is okay with moving forward without x-rays. (He's treated exotics for nearly 20 years' and is one of the go-to exotics vets in the entire Chicagoland area.I know that some people will disagree with him on the use of motility drugs. But disagreements like that crop up over a variety of drugs used for a variety of species. Don't get me started on vets' 50-50 split over having a cat on Predisone while doing a biopsy....)

Just keep trying to get fluids into her and next time you HAVE to go the vets ask him if he could teach you how to do SQ fluids .It is not that difficult but one has to be sure to give the right amount of lactated ringers.

I did bring up this idea once;the office was short-staffed that day (unusual for them), andthat were pushed for time. (My bunnies didn'tneed SQ fluidsat that time, so Iwasn't adament about insisting to learn; but I'll admit that Ishould be shown how and will likely make an appt. for early next week for that very reason.)

 

[ra7751]

In my non-professional opinion.... the use of motility drugs in rabbits should be after H-E-double hockey sticks freezes over a second time. Those ideas come from years ago when it was thought that cats and rabbits should be treated alike. I cringe when I hear of a rabbit being given these drugs. The best I can hope for at that time is that they pass thru without doing harm. If there is a total impaction in the gut, the outsome is always undesirable. They will never under any circumstances be administered to any of my rabbits for any reason...period. There are safe and effective measures to get a gut moving that do not include these drugs.

Randy

 

[Jenk]

I confess thatit's confusing when experienced "non-professionals" (such as yourself, Randy) say one thing, while exotics vets recommend using motility drugs when (they feel it's) necessary. Even Dr. Dana Krempels' articles discuss using such drugs in moderation to get a gut moving again.

Still, I understand your point; I'm typically vote for more gentle treatments--even more so than you, Randy, seeing as you're all for strong antibiotic use (when you feel it's necessary). Personally, I'd go for herbal treatments (those tested and understood by a savvy vet) all the time, if it were a possibility for all ailments.

Here's another funny conunudrum: There are two sides to the thought of antibiotic therapy for bacterial imbalance(s) in rabbits. Some people advise using the "big guns" (strong stuff) right away; others, like Dr. Krempels, recommend giving a bunny's gut time to "reset" itself. (I suppose that the bacteria found plays a part in the treatment advised; still, two sides to the same ol' story....)

 

[Ivory]

Everyone has a different opinion. Most veterinarians will employ the use of a motility drug at some point or another.

They can be dangerous without X-rays, as you don't want to use them with a blockage etc.

If the situation calls for it, they are a useful option.

As far as bacterial infections, it depends on the kind of bacteria. Some require "big guns." Others require regular attention, with a pretty set routine of antibiotics. Some require a kind of ingenuity, i.e. coming up with a rather odd combo. It is very case dependent, as going overboard with untested, strong antibiotics can lead to death.

There's a balance of strong and not-so-aggressive, as well as patient and impatient, that one needs to have. Veterinarians are trained to have that balance, and when equipped with the proper knowledge, it is better to follow their advice than anyone else's.

 

[Maureen Las]

Ivory wrote

There's a balance of strong and not-so-aggressive, as well as patient and impatient, that one needs to have. Veterinarians are trained to have that balance, and when equipped with the proper knowledge, it is better to follow their advice than anyone else's.




I agree that there is a lot of dissenting and confusing info to sort through when treating a rabbit.

I think that Jenk most likely has a competent vet and although Randy is not a vet he works side by side with veteriarians that work exclusively with wild-life and exotics

But I don "t feel that "it is better to follow their advice more than anyone else's"

Where I live3 clinicsstate that they treat rabbits.

Clinic #1 Uses laxatone and fluids to treat all cases of stasis, uses 1 drug for all rabbit infections ..Ciproflocxicin. Uses no benebac and doesn't even know what it is

Clinic #2 has used striaght hydrogen peroxide on a rabbit, vet never heard of EC, uses only baytril on rabbits

Clinic #3 euthanizes all headtilt rabbits and underdosed babette on all meds
No clinic where I live knows how to take a temp of a rabbit.

recently there was a case on the infirmary where an exotics vet sprayed a rabbit with Frontline

I feel that we have to educate ourselves , listen from all sides and make a decision based on everything put together.

If I listened to my rabbit vets allmy rabbits would be dead.

 

[Jenk]

Ivory wrote:

Veterinarians are trained to have that balance, and when equipped with the proper knowledge, it is better to follow their advice than anyone else's.

That's all that I can do, really. Everything that I do for my bunners comes from the best of intentions--right, wrong or indifferent. I try my very best for them.

 

[Jenk]

angieluv wrote:

If I listened to my rabbit vets allmy rabbits would be dead.

I wouldn't deem any of those three described as a "rabbit vet."

 

[Maureen Las]

If they 'self describe" as "rabbit vets" then an uneducated owner would not know any better

 

[EmilytheStrange]

I just want to jump in and say research is a must for rabbit owners. Between the breeders out there who are self proclaimed veterinarians, to owners with years of experience to A+ vets (all the way to C-), a rabbit owner needs to arm themselves with at least general knowledge about rabbit health and medications. AND knowing your bunny's behavior and personality enough to recognize signs of a problem.
My vet and I have an agreement that he will give me metaclopromide during a heavy molt to stop a problem before it starts. But as Randy and Angie mentioned, if there's a problem lower down, it won't help. But since our agreement, neither of my rabbits has had a serious gut blockage so in our case, this treatment is working for us.
Of course every rabbit is different and will react differently to the same cases. I don't believe a rabbit owner should say "I will never do this" or "I will always give this medicine". An owner definitely needs to be flexible since rabbits can change so quickly.

 

[Jenk]

angieluv wrote:

If they 'self describe" as "rabbit vets" then an uneducated owner would not know any better

True. It's the self-description part that angers me (about anyprofessional). I've met vets who claim to treat birds and clearly aren't qualified to do so. And, as you've pointed out, someone who doesn't really know any better could be misled.

 

[Jenk]

EmilytheStrange wrote:

...Every rabbit is different and will react differently to the same cases. I don't believe a rabbit owner should say "I will never do this" or "I will always give this medicine". An owner definitely needs to be flexible since rabbits can change so quickly.

I do believe that you're right.