Early Illness (Warning) Signs...

[Jenk]

Update: In Emma's litter box, I've nowfound three sets (of two poops each) strung together by hair. It would seem that she's shedding (again...*sigh*). But is it abnormal for one of the two poops that are strung together to be misshapen?

Does a bun need to be at rest for a certain percentage of the day before you know that s/he is actually sick? Or is it common for bunnies in the very early stages of something (e.g., GI stasis) to throw you off track by eating/drinking slightly less but remaining active in bouts?

It seems as thoughEmma's consumed less hay/water overnight for the past two nights. But when I'm awake, I do see her eating hay. Plus, she's still pooping pretty well. And while it seems that she may be resting (lying around) more often, she'll then jump up and tug at her x-pen wall, trying to make the Great Escape.

I don't want to waste my vet's time,running Emma to see him if it'snothing--or at least something that can be remedied with some extra grooming and syringe-fed water. Ack.

 

[EmilytheStrange]

Hi Jenk,
In my experience, if one of my buns is getting sick with a furball or something, I can tell by their lack of interest in all food. They don't get up and run over when I go to the closet to get their hay or make their breakfast salad. And they absolutely ignore treats.
If it's hot, Emma is probably just trying to take it easy. You could put a frozen water bottle in her cage or cold piece of tile to keep her cool. I know my bunsters nap during the day and are more active in the morning and evening. If she's trying to make a Great Escape rattling her cage, that's a good sign. :dude:
As far as the stringy poop, I thought I'd pull out this oldey but goody my little boy Bennett produced for me:

I think so long as you are providing fresh water and fresh hay everyday that she has access to, she will eat as much as she needs. When you notice her going off her pellets or ignoring favorite treats, it's definitely time for a vet call.
Keep us updated!!

 

[Jenk]

EmilytheStrange,

Thank you for the photo, whichbrought me a laugh and some perspective. Emma's hair-bound poops aren't that large/misshapen (yet). I'm guessingthat it's "normal" for hair-filled poop to be somewhat misshapen.

Seriously, dobunnies shed quarterly?:? Besides the "hairy" poop, I've noticed Emma grooming more frequently over the past two days'; I'm going to start grooming her (and her sister, Zoe) twice daily until this shedding bout passes.

Emma is typically active from 7:15 am(likely earlier)until 12:30 pm, or later. It still seems like she's taking more "rest stops" but isn'trefusing food. (Granted, she's not eating while resting.) When she does rest, she's lying on her side, not hunched in a corner. And she'seatinghay intermittentlyand has drank more water since I've been up today; so I will try to breathe easier. *Deep breath* *Deep breath*

 

[EmilytheStrange]

Oh yes, they can shed many times a year. There are the noticeable 2 per year (the big blows) but depending on the weather in your area, they can go through some minor molts too. Bennett and Fiona's nap time goes from about 11am to 5pm. Fiona, being female is usually more awake than Bennett, the boy, waiting on him to get up so they can do something : They'll get up to stretch and have a snack now and then. But as if on cue, in the late afternoon, they both decide they need a change of scenery and they come bounding into the den to be with me and Ian.

Jenk wrote:

EmilytheStrange,

Thank you for the photo, whichbrought me a laugh and some perspective. Emma's hair-bound poops aren't that large/misshapen (yet). I'm guessingthat it's "normal" for hair-filled poop to be somewhat misshapen.

Seriously, dobunnies shed quarterly?:? Besides the "hairy" poop, I've noticed Emma grooming more frequently over the past two days'; I'm going to start grooming her (and her sister, Zoe) twice daily until this shedding bout passes.

Emma is typically active from 7:15 am (likely earlier)until 12:30 pm, or later. It still seems like she's taking more "rest stops" but isn'trefusing food. (Granted, she's not eating while resting.) When she does rest, she's lying on her side, not hunched in a corner. And she'seatinghay intermittentlyand has drank more water since I've been up today; so I will try to breathe easier. *Deep breath* *Deep breath*

 

[Jenk]

Since my girls both seem to be losing more hair again, but not as badly as in Mar.-Apr., I'll assume that this is a more minor molt. (Our air-conditioned house holds steady at 75-deg. F, but it seems that they'll molt regardless of the static nature of the elements. :?)

They used to sleep the same hours as your bunners. Due to longer summer days, however, they now crash at 12:30 pm (sometimes as late as 2 pm) and rise around 7:30 pm. Each one usually getsone mid-afternoon snack;one might eat at 2:30 pm, the other around 5 pm.

EmilytheStrange wrote:

Oh yes, they can shed many times a year. There are the noticeable 2 per year (the big blows) but depending on the weather in your area, they can go through some minor molts too. Bennett and Fiona's nap time goes from about 11am to 5pm. Fiona, being female is usually more awake than Bennett, the boy, waiting on him to get up so they can do something : They'll get up to stretch and have a snack now and then. But as if on cue, in the late afternoon, they both decide they need a change of scenery and they come bounding into the den to be with me and Ian.

 

[dquesnel]

Jenk wrote:

Update: In Emma's litter box, I've nowfound three sets (of two poops each) strung together by hair. It would seem that she's shedding (again...*sigh*). But is it abnormal for one of the two poops that are strung together to be misshapen?

Does a bun need to be at rest for a certain percentage of the day before you know that s/he is actually sick? Or is it common for bunnies in the very early stages of something (e.g., GI stasis) to throw you off track by eating/drinking slightly less but remaining active in bouts?

Its great that she is passing the hair. I have just had TWO rabbits get hair blocks at the same time (sigh, was away for work, both had full blown molts prior to and while I was away, the S.O. did not heed my warning to groom them but these things happen...) and it started with them both drinking slightly less, then eating slightly less hay, then leaving a few extra pellets and veggies rather than eating it all at once. Over a period of 3-4 days. I WOULD be worried if I saw her activity level and water intake go down, even just a little bit. While my guys shed, I know give them a dose of cisapride daily just to keep things moving. Some buns need the extra help when going through a rough shed.

I don't think calling/seeing vet would be a waste of time, as long as Emma is pooping and still eating she does not have a blockage so you could discuss with your vet if they would recommend giving you some motility drug to keep in these situations. You can give it to her when you groom her. And... brush brush! No less than twice a day, LOL! Treating a bun with hair/mass is terrible.

 

[dquesnel]

EmilytheStrange wrote:

As far as the stringy poop, I thought I'd pull out this oldey but goody my little boy Bennett produced for me:

That is EXACTLY like the masses my bun passed a few weeks after he was diagnosed with a hair blockage/mass. Two or three of them came out at once, same shade and everything. That isn't as much a normal hair-poop as it is a mass that was probably sitting there for a WHILE and is just full solid of hair. Think of how big it is compared to their little stomachs- I would feel full too! After I found these things in the litterbox, I knew my little guy was recovered! Sorry for the graphicness, but if it helps it helps haha.

 

[EmilytheStrange]

Do you get cisapride from your vet? Does it come in an over the counter form?
When my buns start going through really bad blowouts, my vet will give me reglan to prevent any problems. We both agree it's better to be proactive than to have them go through that and treat them after the fact.

dquesnel wrote:

Jenk wrote:While my guys shed, I know give them a dose of cisapride daily just to keep things moving.

 

[Jenk]

To my knowledge, Cisapride (aka, Propulsid) is available by prescription only. (I don't if there's an over-the-counter substitute, but I doubt it. There is an herbal formula called Phytomucil that can help sometimes, but usually only holistic/naturopathic vets prescribe it.)

Reglan is for slowdown of the stomach (and/or cecum); Cisapride (Propulsid) is for slowdown in the intestines. That's the tricky part for me: determining where the slowdown may be. But that's where the vet's advice comes in,I suppose.

I think that most vets prescribe Reglan first, assuming that the hair mass likely started (and still is) within the stomach. They can prescribe Propulsid, too,if the poop output isn't vastly improved within a few days' timefrom the Reglan alone.

EmilytheStrange wrote:

Do you get cisapride from your vet? Does it come in an over the counter form?
When my buns start going through really bad blowouts, my vet will give me reglan to prevent any problems. We both agree it's better to be proactive than to have them go through that and treat them after the fact.

dquesnel wrote:

Jenk wrote:While my guys shed, I know give them a dose of cisapride daily just to keep things moving.

 

[Jenk]

dquesnel wrote:

Its great that she is passing the hair. I have just had TWO rabbits get hair blocks at the same time (sigh, was away for work, both had full blown molts prior to and while I was away, the S.O. did not heed my warning to groom them but these things happen...) and it started with them both drinking slightly less, then eating slightly less hay, then leaving a few extra pellets and veggies rather than eating it all at once. Over a period of 3-4 days. I WOULD be worried if I saw her activity level and water intake go down, even just a little bit. While my guys shed, I know give them a dose of cisapride daily just to keep things moving. Some buns need the extra help when going through a rough shed.

...And... brush brush! No less than twice a day, LOL! Treating a bun with hair/mass is terrible.

I believe that hair blockage is what happened to Emma the last time--when she wound up hospitalized. I didn't realize until mid-April that she wasshedding heavily. (She'd probably startedshedding in March, and it just increased from that time.) Now I've a better sense of when to expect at least the spring molt. *sigh*

I'm throwing out the window the advice that short-haired rabbits only require grooming once weekly (unless they're shedding). Forget that noise!I'm going to start brushing (or running my wetted hands over) both girls at least once daily when they're not shedding--and at least twice daily when they are. I've learned my lesson the hard (and quite expensive) way.

 

[dquesnel]

That is a good point, AKA: differences between Reglan and Cisapride. I belive Reglan is also known as Metaclopromide. Does anybody know if it ONLY comes in injectable form, or is there also an oral form of it?

 

[Jenk]

dquesnel wrote:

That is a good point, AKA: differences between Reglan and Cisapride. I belive Reglan is also known as Metaclopromide. Does anybody know if it ONLY comes in injectable form, or is there also an oral form of it?

There's definitely an oral form of it; that's all I've been prescribed for my girls. (It's cherry flavored, so they take it willingly. Bonus! )

 

[EmilytheStrange]

My vet gives injectable at the office to get things started back up and sends us home with the oral. The injectable is stronger so if they don't show signs of improvement at home (think it's only happened once) we go back for injectable.
Sidenote: you might already know this but reglan is a human drug too used for nausea. And for some odd reason, milk production in lactating human moms. I went to my OB and had her write me a Rx after Ian when I found that out

 

[Jenk]

EmilytheStrange wrote:

Sidenote: you might already know this but reglan is a human drug too used for nausea. And for some odd reason, milk production in lactating human moms. I went to my OB and had her write me a Rx after Ian when I found that out

I did not know that (but I do now ). I'd only known that it's also given to cats (and likely dogs) to quell nausea. But for lactating humans? That's a fun fact.